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  #76  
Old 11-21-2019, 02:01 PM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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Originally Posted by waktasz View Post
I do both, when the mood suits me.
Ditto.
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  #77  
Old 12-05-2019, 06:48 PM
liggett liggett is offline
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Originally Posted by motosapiens View Post
That's what people who aren't good at shooting like to pretend.

FWIW, even at 58, I am not fat. I am in better shape than the vast majority of uspsa competitors, but even when I set up a stage with a 150 yards of running (at an annual 1911 only outlaw match), I still get beat by a fat guy that shoots well. Running is alot less important than people think, and is typically just used as an excuse by people who suck at shooting too.

I personally like the more physically challenging stages because it gives me a reason to keep working out instead of getting old and fat and dying soon, but I've done enough of every kind of stage to realize it doesn't have any effect on the top finishers.
Well, we both do both. And as far as being good at SHOOTING, I normally come close or do shoot the most A's of the match at our local USPSA match. At 69 with various repaired parts, I'm just not good as a track star.
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  #78  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:27 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Uspsa

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I normally come close or do shoot the most A's of the match at our local USPSA match. At 69 with various repaired parts, I'm just not good as a track star.
I bet you do pretty good in the Senior Division.....
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  #79  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:24 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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69 makes him a Super Senior in USPSA, a Distinguished Senior in IDPA.
I haven't been competitive in SS or DS for several years. A Seriously Old Codger division would be needed. If we had a thousand entries like a big foot race, we could chop it up smaller but there are already so many Divisions and Categories as to make for a lot of big frogs in very small ponds.
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  #80  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:51 PM
liggett liggett is offline
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Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
I bet you do pretty good in the Senior Division.....
SS and DS but not really...I have too many "senior moments". The "A's" don't outweigh them. lol
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  #81  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:14 PM
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The Hand-Sized Handgun Championship of the Known Universe is my match.
The range where I shoot offers USPSA, IDPA, cowboy, steel, and when the guys running the USPSA program inquired about taking over IDPA as well, it left me free to run the new Action Shooting International (ASI) club.
I've known the sport's founders for twenty years, and I like what they are trying to do.

ASI can be a feeder sport for USPSA and IDPA. It has elements of both, and is also similar to GSSF, for that matter.
There are no divisions, it's run what you brung, there are no classifications, and focus is on self-improvement rather than winning.

Members are issued a log book, where they can track their improvement as they shoot a library of stages, in the same vein as USPSA classifiers, so there are no course of fire rules, no concerns about the legality of stages, etc.

One of the things that attracted me was the 4 stages/50 rounds concept; you can shoot the match, and be home in time to mow the lawn or do something with the family.
At our club, it's more like 6 stages/75 rounds, as we typically draw 70 shooters.

The Hand-Sized match varies from ASI norms, because there is a competitive division, based on the old IDPA BUG rules: 3.5" autos and 3" revolver.
We've had some fun with it, and we're doing it again, next August.
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  #82  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
One rule I have never understood:

When conducting a tac reload, you have to retain a mag with any rounds remaining in the mag, otherwise you will earn a 3 second PE penalty...…
!
Without any rounds? Probably the most "realistic" rule in the entire book; in a gun fight, you would not know you had a round in the chamber and an empty mag, no way you could count rounds like you do at a match, and you would not want to leave any of your limited ammo supply (again, realistic when the typical gun packer probably has one or none, when it comes to carrying reloads) on the ground, so you keep the mag.
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  #83  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:55 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Are you getting much "gateway" from ASI to USPSA or IDPA?
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  #84  
Old 12-07-2019, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Without any rounds? Probably the most "realistic" rule in the entire book; in a gun fight, you would not know you had a round in the chamber and an empty mag, no way you could count rounds like you do at a match, and you would not want to leave any of your limited ammo supply (again, realistic when the typical gun packer probably has one or none, when it comes to carrying reloads) on the ground, so you keep the mag.
If you have more than one spare magazine, keeping an empty magazine is a hazard... it gives you the opportunity to spend precious time loading an empty magazine in the gun. If I have time to do a tactical load (which is only done when I think I have time), I have time to check the empty magazine for rounds and decide whether to stow it or discard it.
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  #85  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:04 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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True, but don't mistake an easily administered match rule for gunfighting technique.
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  #86  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Burke View Post
If you have more than one spare magazine, keeping an empty magazine is a hazard... it gives you the opportunity to spend precious time loading an empty magazine in the gun. If I have time to do a tactical load (which is only done when I think I have time), I have time to check the empty magazine for rounds and decide whether to stow it or discard it.
The point of the rule is not to keep an empty mag, it's to simulate not knowing the mag is empty. You wouldn't keep an empty mag, but there's no way to simulate removing the mag, checking to see if there are remaining rounds and then deciding to keep it or discard it, other than keeping every one.
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  #87  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Are you getting much "gateway" from ASI to USPSA or IDPA?
Some, but it's hard to tell, as the "any trigger time is good trigger time" guys are shooting all three, at times.
At my club, we saw a large proportion of the IDPA shooters "follow" the management group to ASI, so we had 50-70 shooters from day one, so I haven't been able to track who's truly new, and who's "grown out of" ASI.
One of the area ASI clubs decided to alternate between ASI and IDPA, and I see the same crowd at both, but I don't know how to interpret that for an answer to your question.
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  #88  
Old 12-07-2019, 01:18 PM
markm markm is offline
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
The point of the rule is not to keep an empty mag, it's to simulate not knowing the mag is empty. You wouldn't keep an empty mag, but there's no way to simulate removing the mag, checking to see if there are remaining rounds and then deciding to keep it or discard it, other than keeping every one.
I had a mag that would prematurely slide lock with one round in it. I went to slide lock and thought I must have miscounted, but then out of the corner of my eye I could see one in it as it fell. So, should I bend over and pick it up or take the procedural? Same thing goes for malfunctions, I wish they would take that into consideration.
Another one on retention, stage starts with a loaded gun on the table and a spare mag. So I grab them and blast away but get a penalty for just holding on the the mag instead of stowing it.
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  #89  
Old 12-07-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
there's no way to simulate removing the mag, checking to see if there are remaining rounds and then deciding to keep it or discard it, other than keeping every one.
You could actually check the magazine...
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  #90  
Old 12-07-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by markm View Post
So, should I bend over and pick it up or take the procedural? Same thing goes for malfunctions, I wish they would take that into consideration.
but get a penalty for just holding on the the mag instead of stowing it.
Fix your gun.
You are not required to retain the mag that was in the gun when it malfunctioned.
You may hold a mag while you shoot.
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  #91  
Old 12-07-2019, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim Burke View Post
You could actually check the magazine...
Ejecting the mag onto the ground would constitute "checking the mag" if you counted rounds . . .
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  #92  
Old 12-07-2019, 06:51 PM
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If the rule is don't leave ammo behind, I'd have no problem with that. But there's belief that this rule reflects some reality. In reality, I don't stow empty magazines. If I shoot IDPA, I simply shoot to slide lock.
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  #93  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:50 AM
Colt4570 Colt4570 is offline
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I remember when,,,,,,,,,,

IPSC did not want to create a division for standard everyday carry 1911's to compete in and that's how it started, Bill, John and Ken petitioned the USA's board of directors for such a class for several years with no prevail.

They were expecting a small turnout for the start but it EXPLODED with members and
the rest is history.
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  #94  
Old 12-09-2019, 12:09 AM
pat_jones pat_jones is offline
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Fix your gun.
Shoot USPSA. It's a better product.

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  #95  
Old 12-09-2019, 07:45 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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IDPA and mag changes....

Quote:
Without any rounds? Probably the most "realistic" rule in the entire book; in a gun fight, you would not know you had a round in the chamber and an empty mag, no way you could count rounds like you do at a match
IDPA is a game....not training, and not a realistic simulated gun fight..... How many self defense instances have you ever heard about where it took 18 rounds to neutralize the threats...?

After 40 years of competitive pistol shooting, I pre-plan where I will reload, and still subconsciously count rounds as I shoot.....

Since IDPA is a game, why not make the game more fun and appealing to new shooters by not penalizing them with "procedural errors?" In my useless opinion, if a person drops an empty mag with a round still in the chamber and does not pick up the empty mag or even a few rounds left in the mag, no need to penalize the shooter.... If the shooter runs out of ammo, there may be enough self imposed penalties....

My EDC self defense handgun holds 16+1 rounds, and I carry one spare 17 round mag.....I do not want to have to make a reload for any self defense situation, even though I can make a very fast reload.....!

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 12-09-2019 at 07:48 AM.
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  #96  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
IDPA is a game....not training, and not a realistic simulated gun fight..... How many self defense instances have you ever heard about where it took 18 rounds to neutralize the threats...?
30-40 rounds appears to be typical for LEO involved . . .
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  #97  
Old 12-10-2019, 12:17 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
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30-40 rounds appears to be typical for LEO involved . . .
They can often kill a non-threatening dog with slightly fewer rounds.
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  #98  
Old 12-10-2019, 01:08 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Quote:
IDPA is a game....not training, and not a realistic simulated gun fight..... How many self defense instances have you ever heard about where it took 18 rounds to neutralize the threats...?
30-40 rounds appears to be typical for LEO involved . . .
No, the national average is actually 3.2. It was 2.8 in 1989.

I know it’s the age of sensationalism, and 24hr connection......but the fact is, the high rd count events are the incredible exception. But they do get all the news, and are fun to yak about for some.
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  #99  
Old 12-11-2019, 06:34 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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LEO involved shootings....

Quote:
30-40 rounds appears to be typical for LEO involved . . .
I hope that was an attempt to bring some humor to the post....

It is a very rare instance when one LEO fires 30+ rounds in a shoot out.....having been a Deputy Sheriff in the largest LE agency in Florida, (Orlando Sheriff's office with 1,600 sworn Deputies), I have never heard of any LEO shooting 30+ rounds in a gunfight....
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  #100  
Old 12-11-2019, 08:23 PM
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Tim Burke Tim Burke is offline
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I have never heard of any LEO shooting 30+ rounds in a gunfight
Read this.
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