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  #26  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:15 AM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Tactical View Post
My thoughts are that Colt should have done enough test firing to catch this before it hit the market, especially on a gun costing this much.
For all of these manufacturers, remember that they build something like 20-30 prototypes and pre-production samples to test. That's a fairly small sample size to work out any bugs. On top of that, you can have pre-production guns that run like a top, but as soon as you fire up the machines and begin to mass-produce them on a large scale little gremlins get into the production guns that weren't present on the test guns. Then by the time you have 2-3000 guns out there in the hands of end users, running them all sorts of ways and with different kinds of ammo all sorts of other things can crop up.

The bottom line is, you can't print enough money to make any mass-produced item 100% perfect from the moment it first hits the market..... unless of course it's a Glock in which case any problems are always the end user's fault.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
  #27  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:35 AM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
For all of these manufacturers, remember that they build something like 20-30 prototypes and pre-production samples to test. That's a fairly small sample size to work out any bugs. On top of that, you can have pre-production guns that run like a top, but as soon as you fire up the machines and begin to mass-produce them on a large scale little gremlins get into the production guns that weren't present on the test guns. Then by the time you have 2-3000 guns out there in the hands of end users, running them all sorts of ways and with different kinds of ammo all sorts of other things can crop up.

The bottom line is, you can't print enough money to make any mass-produced item 100% perfect from the moment it first hits the market..... unless of course it's a Glock in which case any problems are always the end user's fault.
Random Glock owner: My Glock has issues

Internet Glock fans: Blasphemy! You're limp wristing it. Repent to the great Gaston, for his perfect creation (even if the company has felt the need to change it 5 times).

Even the most highly regarded pistols have had issues. Some people still jokingly refer to Glocks as "hand grenades", due to some incidents involving early production G22s.
  #28  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:40 AM
ideal73 ideal73 is offline
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The old Pythons were known to have timing issues. My old one went out of time as well. Maybe the new ones suffer from the same issue?
  #29  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:33 AM
Texagun Texagun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4110mm View Post
I don't think Hickock45 mentioned that he is paid for by Colt.
Can you offer any link, reference, or evidence that Hickok45 is "paid for by Colt? Silly me, I always thought his reviews were pretty fair and unbiased.
  #30  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:44 AM
Dddrees Dddrees is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4110mm View Post
IIRC Hack is a paid consultant to Colt no? Did he not mention that in his latest ramblings on about the series 70? I don't think Hickock45 mentioned that he is paid for by Colt.
If he is he had a funny way of showing it.
  #31  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:10 PM
UncleEd UncleEd is online now
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Hickok45 gets loaners
from Buds Gun Shop and does mention it when
he has such a gun. I believe he said so with
the Python 2020.

That way he can try out a new Smith Model 19 this
week, a Python the next and so on.

Last edited by UncleEd; 01-19-2020 at 12:12 PM.
  #32  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:32 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ideal73 View Post
The old Pythons were known to have timing issues. My old one went out of time as well. Maybe the new ones suffer from the same issue?
The original Pythons could go out of time due to parts wear and stress from extended firing of magnum loads. The issue with the new Python is either a design or manufacturing flaw as it's happening to brand-new ones.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
  #33  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:33 PM
K0025xx K0025xx is offline
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In the case of the V spring, it's very difficult to have one spring do the job of two when the two jobs require two different springs. One spring is one spring regardless of it's configuration. They can play with rates and pressures, but it's still one spring. The S&W and others use two springs to do two different jobs for a reason. That is a HUGE and probably most significant difference in their respective designs.

Last edited by K0025xx; 01-19-2020 at 12:40 PM.
  #34  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:37 PM
4110mm 4110mm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texagun View Post
Can you offer any link, reference, or evidence that Hickok45 is "paid for by Colt? Silly me, I always thought his reviews were pretty fair and unbiased.
I repeat, I don't think he is paid for by Colt, no where is there evidence, I did not suggest he was and if he was, they sure got their money's worth (not). Love his videos and I also think he knows how to shoot.
  #35  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:40 PM
4110mm 4110mm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K0025xx View Post
In the case of the V spring, it's very difficult to have one spring do the job of two when the two jobs require two different springs. One spring is one spring regardless of it's configuration. They can play with rates and pressures, but it's still one spring. The S&W and others use two springs to do two different jobs for a reason. That is a HUGE and probably most significant difference in their respective designs.
That is for sure, how can you fine tune the gun, impossible. They probably tried and overdid it. Some have light primer strikes also and then the pawl not riding forward etc etc. On the Smith yes, you can make a race gun with very little effort.
  #36  
Old 01-19-2020, 02:32 PM
Mtnfarm Mtnfarm is offline
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What about this theory? Colt once again needs the public to buy their products. They snub their nose at the public as long as there are military contracts being fulfilled, or pending. The much revered "PYTHON" ; the so called holy grail of revolvers, should not have been rushed out if it is not ready. Guess they need the fanboys after all.
  #37  
Old 01-19-2020, 02:52 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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The Python was several years in development, so it was not rushed. And virtually all gun manufacturers prioritize large military or LE contracts over commercial sales. It's called making a profit.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
  #38  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:18 PM
larry starling larry starling is offline
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I share this from someone else any truth to this? I must admit I didn't shoot my original Python much before I traded it to Pyunker45!
Quote:
The cylinder is because idiots are trying to shoot the gun like a Glock. Pythons do and always have had a weak trigger return. Disrupting it has always caused the cylinder to lock. Period. Hell, there is a video of Jerry Miculek shooting a NOS 60s python and he says “my untrained finger locked the cylinder” and goes on to explain the issue.

It is a design flaw not a QC flaw.

Pythons are not that great of a revolver. The old ones were junk and didn’t hold up if you put them through the ringer. There is a reason S&W was the choice of LE and competitive shooters in that era.

Then you top it off with millennials that are inexperienced and don’t understand anything but Glocks, the problem is compounded. I believe Ken Hackathorn said this would happen before the pythons were even in the wild. Weird...history repeats itself and people like to bitch and cry.

Also, hicock45 is a maroon
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Last edited by larry starling; 01-19-2020 at 03:20 PM. Reason: misquoted
  #39  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:08 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry starling View Post
I share this from someone else any truth to this? I must admit I didn't shoot my original Python much before I traded it to Pyunker45!
It may be possible to tie up a Python like that. I've never had the issue with mine.
As far as the rest of what you shared,.....there's no other way to put this.
Whomever wrote that is simply an idiot.

Last edited by TRSOtto; 01-19-2020 at 04:11 PM.
  #40  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:12 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is online now
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I will buy one but probably not right now due to $$$$$. Hopefully I will get lucky. Back in the 80s I bought a 686 no dash. Before the intergoogle of course but read about the issues with that revolver in a magazine. I called S&W and talked with a fellow. Gave him the serial number and he said there was no need to send it back.

Then with my WWI repos in Colt land my O1911, WMK or "blue" one has too low a serial number to have been sent back and the O1918, WWI or "black" one had too high a serial number.

I bought a Python Elite in 2004 for a little over $1K and so far have been happy with it except the silly prices on them at gunpoker etc. keep me from shooting it at public ranges.

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  #41  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:49 PM
Colt191145 Colt191145 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K0025xx View Post
In the case of the V spring, it's very difficult to have one spring do the job of two when the two jobs require two different springs. One spring is one spring regardless of it's configuration. They can play with rates and pressures, but it's still one spring. The S&W and others use two springs to do two different jobs for a reason. That is a HUGE and probably most significant difference in their respective designs.

The Ruger Redhawk has been using one spring to power the hammer and trigger for decades. Works fine.
  #42  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:24 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I'd be very likely able to fix a new Python this way:

Step 1. Not stress about it.

Step 2. Buy one.

Step 3. Enjoy it, because the odds are that it will be excellent right out of the box.
  #43  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:28 PM
4110mm 4110mm is offline
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Step 1. I dont stress about it

Step 2. I dont buy a Colt product, not this one or any other

Step 3. The Python is not excellent, not out of the box and not in the box.
  #44  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:34 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4110mm View Post
Step 1. I dont stress about it

Step 2. I dont buy a Colt product, not this one or any other

Step 3. The Python is not excellent, not out of the box and not in the box.
Have you handled one?
Have you shot one?
Or are you basing your anti-Colt sentiments on internet lore?
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  #45  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:48 PM
MaverickDMD MaverickDMD is offline
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I just bought a blued Colt 1911 Competition 45ACP a month ago.

The quality of fit and finish was very disappointing for what should be the flagship gun from this manufacturer. (Problems with fit/function of safeties, slide stop and quality of bluing, etc.)

Given this experience it is likely that the new quality control of Colt's 2020 Pythons will be of similar issue - there is no reason to assume it won"t.

Two weeks into their new release, it appears from internet reviews that this is the case. I'll be holding off on one of these until the bugs are corrected.
  #46  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:12 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Have you handled one?
Have you shot one?
Or are you basing your anti-Colt sentiments on internet lore?
Internet experts. The guy who's never sat in a Ferrari that will tell you how badly they suck.

Haters gotta hate. They got nuthin better to do.
  #47  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:43 PM
K0025xx K0025xx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt191145 View Post
The Ruger Redhawk has been using one spring to power the hammer and trigger for decades. Works fine.
Entirely different mechanism, and it does employ two springs. It also has a very heavy trigger pull. My point is that the design of the V spring mechanism makes it so you can't tune out the stacking and not effect trigger reset. I'm guessing that's part of the problem some are seeing.

Last edited by K0025xx; 01-19-2020 at 06:45 PM.
  #48  
Old 01-19-2020, 07:05 PM
larry starling larry starling is offline
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Colt will get this right! Too much money to be made on this one. for all the haters you will be biting your words in the near future! I just feel sorry for all the people who payed 2k and up for their examples.
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  #49  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:51 PM
UncleEd UncleEd is online now
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In defense of the Python, Yankee
Marshal has issued two videos in
which he duplicates with an older
Python non-turning cylinder "problem."

He also duplicates the same "problem"
with a Smith & Wesson.

The merits of his comments, I'll let
others decide if they care.

He lambastes Hickok45 and my reviewing
the Hickok45 video I'm not sure about
his criticisms in this case.
  #50  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:10 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Since this thread also seems to be going downhill fast I am closing it as well. I am starting a fresh Python thread, with a few caveats for everyone to read.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.

Last edited by dsk; 01-19-2020 at 11:00 PM.
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