Interesting match results at USPSA - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:16 AM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,653
Interesting match results at USPSA

At yesterday's match in Nampa ID, the first pcc shooter (classified master) was behind 3 carry optics shooters and 3 singlestack shooters. This is about normal for us.

We do have a local guy who was world champion in steel a couple years ago, and I believe he has once (one single time) managed to actually finish ahead of all the pistol shooters in the make-believe 'overall'.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-17-2019, 09:51 AM
Tom Freeman's Avatar
Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
More Cowbell...
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,301
Make believe "High Overall."

Thats awesome.
__________________
I am a rather brilliant surgeon, perhaps I can help you with that humpů
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-17-2019, 11:48 AM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
Make believe "High Overall."

Thats awesome.
as i have mentioned elsewhere, I do pay some attention to other pistol divisions at local matches, just because there is often not much heat in any one division, but if a CO shooter 'wins' by less than 10% or so against single-stack guys, he didn't really 'win', just provided an additional comparison point.

I only pay attention to rifles so I can make fun of them, since the two best rifle shooters are good friends of mine.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 12-17-2019, 01:10 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,013
Low overall of a PCC is frequently due to malfunctions. The 9mm carbine is not a finished product.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-17-2019, 01:30 PM
Tom Freeman's Avatar
Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
More Cowbell...
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Low overall of a PCC is frequently due to malfunctions. The 9mm carbine is not a finished product.
We have more than a few PCC shooters in the area that are senior or super seniors. Having a dot on a PCC or a production pistol/CO has kept them in the game.

They arent winning HOA, but at least they are still out there getting it done.

My short barreled Sig MPX (a factory 8 inch SBR) has had one malfunction in the past 18,000 rounds. I broke down this weekend and cleaned it.
__________________
I am a rather brilliant surgeon, perhaps I can help you with that humpů
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-17-2019, 02:22 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,013
I should have said the 9mm AR carbine is not a finished product.
A friend has a JP that I am looking forward to him getting out. He has been shooting some minor make that is not 100%. Strange habit, he owns nicer guns than what he routinely uses. I wonder what he is saving them for.

I am in the post-super senior category but I am clinging to my iron sights. People ask me why I don't change to dots. I just like the conventional pistols. I know one guy who has dabbled in dots but will not make the commitment and shoot them all the time. He wonders why he does not score better with them.

Last edited by Jim Watson; 12-17-2019 at 02:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-17-2019, 02:54 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Low overall of a PCC is frequently due to malfunctions. The 9mm carbine is not a finished product.
No malfunctions at this match. Their guns ran perfectly. In fact, the 2nd place pcc guy (down in 10th-12 overall, behind 4 SS shooters) even got a reshoot on a stage he tanked when the timer didn't pick up his last shots.

They finished further down because on most stages among good shooters, pcc is not a significant advantage. While they can be quicker and more accurate for some things, they are also slower to reload (given the same amount of practice), and slower to get in and out of ports, around corners, into hard leans, etc...

There's a reason that PCC has won exactly zero imaginary high overalls at nationals or area matches this year. If max or josh isn't there, they can't even get into the top 15.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-17-2019, 02:58 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
I should have said the 9mm AR carbine is not a finished product.
Like 1911's, they are assembled from parts, by people of varying skills. We have one that my wife uses only for steel challenge (she thinks shooting rifles in pistol matches is stupid). We have never had a malfunction.... but it was built by a local guy who knows what he is doing.

from what I can tell, alot of the problems are due to insufficient finish work when people put big extensions on 30 rd glock mags, and the followers won't reliably make the transition between extension and mag body.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-28-2019, 03:55 PM
Snoopy47 Snoopy47 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
Make believe "High Overall."

Thats awesome.
I wonder about that too. I just started shooting Steel Challenge myself and got 19th of 28 overall (1st in SS), but if you remove all the rifles, 22s, and optics I got 2nd among all iron sight pistols regardless of division.

Then I look at who all is shooting in the non pistol divisions and see they are B's, A's, and Masters. Are there lower thresholds to classify well in these "newer" divisions?
__________________
Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-28-2019, 06:18 PM
Tom Freeman's Avatar
Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
More Cowbell...
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
I wonder about that too. I just started shooting Steel Challenge myself and got 19th of 28 overall (1st in SS), but if you remove all the rifles, 22s, and optics I got 2nd among all iron sight pistols regardless of division.

Then I look at who all is shooting in the non pistol divisions and see they are B's, A's, and Masters. Are there lower thresholds to classify well in these "newer" divisions?
Thats awesome. Congrats. 2nd place iron sights.

I dont pay much attention to classifications. A solid B shooter can sneak by a Master if they have a bad day. For the most part, I view the whole classification system/ststems as just a barrel measuring contest.
__________________
I am a rather brilliant surgeon, perhaps I can help you with that humpů
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-29-2019, 02:35 AM
Snoopy47 Snoopy47 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
For the most part, I view the whole classification system/ststems as just a barrel measuring contest.
Isn't that what it's all about anyway.

I mean there are all these insane fast times with .22 and PCC, but those start from the LOW READY. That could be 1 second per string, 4 seconds per stage, and 30+ seconds per match (all stages).

At least that's what it is for me. I lose a second over drawing from the holster (retention holster) verses from the low ready on my first shot. But the variance between GM SS and GM Rim Fire Iron is only 14 seconds.

So I'm saying I would probably pick up 30 seconds alone all things being equal starting from the low ready, then add on top of that shooing .22 verses 45ACP. Not to mention my Ruger 22s all have Volquartsen 2lb triggers.

The path to GM in 22 and PCC looks WAY EASIER than say any center fire pistol.

I'm saying Rim Fire Iron should be 25-30 seconds harder than SS, not merely 14. To me, those extra 15 seconds are given to me freely without having to actually "work for them" to be on equal footing for simply picking up an easier pistol.

Then we look at Carry Optics. The different between GM SS and GM CO is only FOUR seconds.

I think in my heart of hearts I'm going to do WAY better than 4 seconds across the entire course of fire of 195 rounds for an optic pistol over an iron one. In fact that's exactly what I have equipped for. I have matching 1911s and G17's with optics and without. I've just never shot them in Steel Challenge.

I just get a feeling going CO, PCC, or 22 basically gets you half way to the next Classification for free. The classification curve is lower.

Hence, the barrel measuring, but now I don't think a 22 GM is anywhere on par with a iron sight center fire pistol GM.
__________________
Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-29-2019, 11:27 AM
pat_jones pat_jones is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
I dont pay much attention to classifications. A solid B shooter can sneak by a Master if they have a bad day. For the most part, I view the whole classification system/ststems as just a barrel measuring contest.
Says the 3 division GM.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-29-2019, 12:17 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
I wonder about that too. I just started shooting Steel Challenge myself and got 19th of 28 overall (1st in SS), but if you remove all the rifles, 22s, and optics I got 2nd among all iron sight pistols regardless of division.

Then I look at who all is shooting in the non pistol divisions and see they are B's, A's, and Masters. Are there lower thresholds to classify well in these "newer" divisions?
news flash, it's easier to shoot a 22 pistol or rifle than a centerfire pistol. My wife is a GM in 3 divisions in steel challenge (pcc and 22 rifle/pistol), and also a solid B in limited.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-29-2019, 12:19 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
Isn't that what it's all about anyway.

I mean there are all these insane fast times with .22 and PCC, but those start from the LOW READY. That could be 1 second per string, 4 seconds per stage, and 30+ seconds per match (all stages).

At least that's what it is for me. I lose a second over drawing from the holster (retention holster) verses from the low ready on my first shot. But the variance between GM SS and GM Rim Fire Iron is only 14 seconds.

So I'm saying I would probably pick up 30 seconds alone all things being equal starting from the low ready, then add on top of that shooing .22 verses 45ACP. Not to mention my Ruger 22s all have Volquartsen 2lb triggers.

The path to GM in 22 and PCC looks WAY EASIER than say any center fire pistol.

I'm saying Rim Fire Iron should be 25-30 seconds harder than SS, not merely 14. To me, those extra 15 seconds are given to me freely without having to actually "work for them" to be on equal footing for simply picking up an easier pistol.

Then we look at Carry Optics. The different between GM SS and GM CO is only FOUR seconds.

I think in my heart of hearts I'm going to do WAY better than 4 seconds across the entire course of fire of 195 rounds for an optic pistol over an iron one. In fact that's exactly what I have equipped for. I have matching 1911s and G17's with optics and without. I've just never shot them in Steel Challenge.

I just get a feeling going CO, PCC, or 22 basically gets you half way to the next Classification for free. The classification curve is lower.

Hence, the barrel measuring, but now I don't think a 22 GM is anywhere on par with a iron sight center fire pistol GM.

You make some valid points, but you probably need to work on your draw. I get a difference of about .5 seconds on a draw from holster vs low-ready start.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-29-2019, 02:16 PM
Tom Freeman's Avatar
Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
More Cowbell...
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat_jones View Post
Says the 3 division GM.
I got lucky.
__________________
I am a rather brilliant surgeon, perhaps I can help you with that humpů
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved