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  #26  
Old 01-12-2020, 01:45 PM
Pale Face Pale Face is offline
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Originally Posted by Texagun View Post
As usual, dsk hits the nail on the head. I have picked up several series 70 and series 80 guns over the years. Years ago I bought a package of 4 or 5 spacers from the guy who made them. I even talked to him over the phone about them. I had intended to install them in my series 80 guns but as it turned out, all of the series 80 guns I had already had decent triggers in them so I never got around to installing the shims in them. That package of FPS shims in shrink wrap still resides in my parts box somewhere.

I actually had a local "gunsmith" tell me that the Series 80 firing pin safety system would cause premature wear to the grip safety and should should be removed and shimmed for that reason.

I thanked him for that tidbit of information, because it was all I needed to know that I did not want him touching any of my guns.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:35 PM
bowlegged bowlegged is offline
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My problem with s80 parts has nothing to do with the direction all these threads go in - "trigger" quality.

Trigger pull is mostly about hammer/sear relationship, while how well your trigger is fit, your disco, etc. all play a role. If your s80 parts are correctly fitted/tuned you won't even know they're there.

However, I have a BIG problem adding unnecessary feel-good parts to a design that already has enough "safeties". I've said it before - keep it simple. More parts = more parts to tune/more parts to wear out/more parts to malfunction. Sorry for the rant
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:09 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlegged View Post
My problem with s80 parts has nothing to do with the direction all these threads go in - "trigger" quality.

Trigger pull is mostly about hammer/sear relationship, while how well your trigger is fit, your disco, etc. all play a role. If your s80 parts are correctly fitted/tuned you won't even know they're there.

However, I have a BIG problem adding unnecessary feel-good parts to a design that already has enough "safeties". I've said it before - keep it simple. More parts = more parts to tune/more parts to wear out/more parts to malfunction. Sorry for the rant
Consider that the Swartz safety was invented in the 1920s, somebody way back then didnít think that there were already enough safeties on the gun.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:33 PM
Highpower3006 Highpower3006 is offline
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I have more than a dozen 1911’s dating from 1914 up through 2013. Out of all of them the two best triggers are on my 1974 Gold Cup and 2013 M45A1. The GC of course has the traditional 1911 trigger and the M45 has the S80. Honestly, both feel the same to me.

The worst is that on my 1942 Colt.
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlegged View Post
However, I have a BIG problem adding unnecessary feel-good parts to a design that already has enough "safeties". I've said it before - keep it simple. More parts = more parts to tune/more parts to wear out/more parts to malfunction. Sorry for the rant
Colt did not add the S80 firing pin safety because Hillary Clinton or some lawyer demanded it. It has long been common knowledge that a loaded 1911 without a FPS can indeed go off if it's dropped at the right angle and/or onto a hard enough surface. Remember that everybody else was putting FPS's in their guns at the time, even older designs that didn't originally have one (Beretta 92, Hi-Power, etc) yet nobody seems to want to yank the FPS parts out of their M9 or Browning. It's only die-hard 1911 lovers who think that any part of the pistol not designed by John Moses Browning himself is sacrilege.
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  #31  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:33 PM
Mark Robinson Mark Robinson is offline
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All of my serious-use guns are Series 80. In addition to making them drop-safe, in the event of a catastrophic parts failure the firing pin block should prevent the gun from firing.

And my SCGs have terrific triggers.
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  #32  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:38 PM
bowlegged bowlegged is offline
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Thanks but No Thanks - - I'll keep buildin' 'em without the extra parts

FYI DSK: "John Moses Browning" probably wouldn't even like my pistols - they have beavertail grip safeties on them!!

Last edited by bowlegged; 01-13-2020 at 07:50 PM.
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  #33  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:11 PM
Pale Face Pale Face is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Colt did not add the S80 firing pin safety because Hillary Clinton or some lawyer demanded it. It has long been common knowledge that a loaded 1911 without a FPS can indeed go off if it's dropped at the right angle and/or onto a hard enough surface. Remember that everybody else was putting FPS's in their guns at the time, even older designs that didn't originally have one (Beretta 92, Hi-Power, etc) yet nobody seems to want to yank the FPS parts out of their M9 or Browning. It's only die-hard 1911 lovers who think that any part of the pistol not designed by John Moses Browning himself is sacrilege.
I'd add that in addition to protection against drops, it adds a measure of protection against unintentional discharge with the slide slamming back into battery in the event the firing pin spring has fatigued. I know firing pin springs are supposed to be replaced with recoil springs, but few 1911 owners I know do that.

Edit: I like what the late Phil Engeldrum had to say on on this topic: "Sounds reasonable to me. I have some friends who can never find their car keys, drop full bottles of whiskey, and still lie to me that they never drop a pistol. Most of them moan that the Colt is now ruined." Handgun Tests, Spring 1991, page 82.

Last edited by Pale Face; 01-13-2020 at 08:18 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:48 PM
MG1912 MG1912 is offline
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I have two series 80 1911's, and it is no problem. The triggers are excellent and break at 3.75# or so (measured with a Lyman's digital scale). That's the trigger pull I prefer, with a clean break and little take up, and it is easily achievable with a series 80. The one minor annoyance is putting everything back together after a complete break down -- which usually involves dropping a piece here and there and maybe a little cussin' -- but I'd say I do that only a few times a year.
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:56 AM
67ray 67ray is online now
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Some manufacturers e.g. I think Kimber have FPS that is tied into the grip safety not the trigger. That I like and it would be good to do a blind test adding in one of those to the mix.
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:13 AM
RawHide*1911* RawHide*1911* is offline
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I own over 25 Colt 1911s from WW1 guns to present day . I am fanatical about having a proper trigger pull and that dose not mean a light pull on guns meant for carry .

Series 80 firing pin systems can be made smooth and very functional although I do not want it on my Bullseye guns .

It takes work polishing and good parts to achieve crisp consistent safe trigger pull . After doing 100s of triggers for people all Colt trigger parts from different eras are not created equal . When carefully inspected the differences are shocking

Being able to feel the difference in series 70 and 80 guns has as much to due with the muscle memory built from shooting 1000s of rounds a yr as it dose the design itself .
Shooters lacking that feel will pull right through and never feel the plunger spring compressing .
I remove the parts for people that want it that way or take the time to smooth the 80 series parts out one is just a more labor intensive job than the other but can be achieved .
That said I am an old school 1911 guy and like the gun the way Browning originally designed it but understand people wanting an even grater margin of safety in a pure carry gun
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  #37  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:42 AM
ether ether is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
The last Series 80 I purchased has a really light trigger on it... around 3.5# according to my Lyman trigger pull gauge. That's with the FPS parts still installed. Don't let anybody ever tell you that a S80 safety system ruins the trigger pull. Yes there are S80s out there with bad triggers, but it's because they have bad triggers.... not because they have FPS parts in them.
This is spot-on. If you hold the hammer back on a Series 80 and pull the trigger, I challenge you to detect any resistance, mush, or creep that you wouldn't otherwise feel on a Series 70, all else being equal. I prefer the Series 70 model because fewer parts are better, and I'm not a fan of dropping my guns in the first place. But a bad trigger is just a bad trigger, and there are plenty out there.
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  #38  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:40 AM
TNIC TNIC is offline
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Really appreciate all the great responses to this fellas. But really I was only curious since I'd heard concerns (apparently unfounded) about it on YT.
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  #39  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:41 AM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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Yep, if I saw it on the Internet, it must be TRUE! dsk's remarks are, as usual, spot on. Internet Armchair Commandos that don't know the Why of very many things - they speak from their own ignorance or lack of research on a given topic.

The reason for a firing pin safety - and why every major gun maker uses them - is because dropped pistols DID go off and injure/kill people. Nowadays that means lawsuits and dollars - besides the morality of selling something dangerous that does not have to be.

Colt did not spend the money to retool and produce the Swartz (sp?) safety during the Great Depression because of Trial Lawyers - they were not a problem at that time in history. But there had been enough sad incidents for them to want to solve the problem. And they deliberately did not use their original old 1930's system when lawyers and lawsuits did become a problem in the 1980's - it has more problems with tolerances, as I understand it - Kimber chose it because the patent was expired and they would not be (as always) just copying everything Colt ever did..... I assume the Series 80 system is no longer under patent now, as others do use it, without royalties to Colt as I understand.

I too know a lot of fumble fingered, bumbling people - and on some days, tired, sleepy, out of sorts - I can be guilty, too! CC
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  #40  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:43 AM
fnfalman fnfalman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Colt did not add the S80 firing pin safety because Hillary Clinton or some lawyer demanded it. It has long been common knowledge that a loaded 1911 without a FPS can indeed go off if it's dropped at the right angle and/or onto a hard enough surface. Remember that everybody else was putting FPS's in their guns at the time, even older designs that didn't originally have one (Beretta 92, Hi-Power, etc) yet nobody seems to want to yank the FPS parts out of their M9 or Browning. It's only die-hard 1911 lovers who think that any part of the pistol not designed by John Moses Browning himself is sacrilege.
And these same people donít bat an eye at lowering ejection port, relieving the trigger guard at the frame, extended thumb safety, ambidextrous thumb safety, beaver tail grip safety, skeleton hammer, titanium firing pin, dual recoil springs, G10 grip panels.

Staying true to JMBís design, indeed.
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  #41  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:26 PM
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Yes, 1911 purists are indeed an odd bunch. I'm definitely a purist, and I do prefer the original pre-Series 80 design for its simplicity, but at the same time I have no problem owning a 1911 with a S80 safety in it. It's never even a factor when I'm deciding what to buy, and I have never had an urge to remove it from a gun either.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #42  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:51 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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I still have folks who ask me how to tell if a 1911 has a mechanical firing pin safety. As I have mentioned before I tell them to lock the slide back, turn it over, and look for a plunger. Below a Colt with no safety on the left. Then a Colt with the Series 80 safety, which, as mentioned, is used by others besides Colt. Next a Kimber with its variation of the old Colt Swartz safety based off the grip safety which Colt used before WWII and recently was used by Llama also. On the right a S&W with its safety which is also based off the grip safety but was developed in house by S&W by a fellow named Molcek I think. As far as I know only S&W has used this safety.



And the top of the frames in the same order showing the pin or lever which pushes the pin in the slide up and lets the firing pin move forward.



Of course there is the path Ruger took to put a Titanium firing pin in the pistol with a stronger firing pin spring for drop protection. With the exception of my WWI repos all the recent Colts I have purchased without the Series 80 system have Titanium firing pins in them.
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:55 PM
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To add to Dakota1911's post, the key visual difference between the old Colt Swartz safety and the Kimber system is that the Colt used a square hole and plunger, not oblong like the Kimber's. It must have been very expensive to machine, which is probably the man reason why Colt quickly got rid of it.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #44  
Old 01-21-2020, 04:35 AM
TNIC TNIC is offline
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Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
Yep, if I saw it on the Internet, it must be TRUE!
Are you implying its NOT true???

I haven't been THAT gullible for a good 6 months or so now. See? Old mutts CAN learn.
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  #45  
Old 01-22-2020, 12:17 AM
Pale Face Pale Face is offline
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Really appreciate all the great responses to this fellas. But really I was only curious since I'd heard concerns (apparently unfounded) about it on YT.
We were just looking for an excuse gab about this thing. It's a reliable conversation-opener in 1911 circles.
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  #46  
Old 01-22-2020, 12:29 AM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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Cylinder and Slide also makes a trigger pull reduction kit. The one I got several years ago was coated in Titanium nitride? Anyway it was Gold in color but it is very well machined and may help but you still have the Series 80 parts in there. I got mine from Brownells.

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...501-12753.aspx
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  #47  
Old 01-22-2020, 01:37 AM
TNIC TNIC is offline
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Originally Posted by Pale Face View Post
We were just looking for an excuse gab about this thing. It's a reliable conversation-opener in 1911 circles.
Hey, I'm just good that way. Glad I could liven the joint up. Its so quiet here.
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