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  #26  
Old 05-18-2017, 06:16 PM
7 Ring 7 Ring is offline
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The best accuracy I was able to achieve was at 950 fps. Loads at or above 1,000 fps were not accurate.
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2017, 06:44 PM
shooter223 shooter223 is offline
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Interesting. Good to know.
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  #28  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:18 PM
shooter223 shooter223 is offline
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Does your pistol prefer a particular bullet weight? I've wondered if 147 grain would be better.
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  #29  
Old 05-19-2017, 06:51 AM
7 Ring 7 Ring is offline
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Mine shoots 124g projectiles the best. The Hornady HAP bullet is the best of the lot. The HAP shoots well with HS-6 or Win 231.
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  #30  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:59 AM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrr1 View Post
I think the only thing SA could do to improve their CS is to have a SAR on line, monitoring the forums and providing answers. Kinda like Wilson Combat. WCR is present.


So true
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SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
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  #31  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:12 AM
passx passx is offline
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I bought an all stainless full size 9mm RO about a month ago, beautiful gun, what I've always wanted. Took it to the range and couldn't do better than 6-9" groupings at 10-15yrds, plus it would not extract spent shells the more I shot it, plus you couldn't insert the mag with the slide closed, been at SA for 3 weeks now. I also shot my ugly little ruger p95dc and was able to just make 1 big 3" hole at the same distances, same for my sig p320 RX. I bought the range officer because of several threads here touting the outstanding accuracy of them so I'm hoping that Springfield will work their magic on my gun and make it as accurate, too bad I can't send myself in for a little accuracy tuning. I will say the slide/frame was extremely smooth and tight, the barrel bushing to barrel was a bit of a disappointment with slightly less than .005in clearance but I don't think that it is enough to improve the groupings. When it was shooting I will say that it is a nice shooting gun, I prefer .045 but the 9mm will make it easier to take it to the range and have some fun. I'm anxious to see what Springfield can do, I love a stainless 1911, just need a bit more functionality and accuracy from this gun. I also have an emp4 in 9mm and it is pretty accurate, maybe not as much as my p95dc ruger but close, love that gun.

I think the suggestion for Sa to have a sar online is a great idea, they could learn a lot about their products and the customers inputs. I have a Yamaha fjr that has been a constant problem and had suggested to Yamaha that it would bode well for them to maybe monitor some of the dedicated forums to learn about issues and possible improvements but quite frankly was surprised at how non-plus they were about that idea, couldn't care less. Honda has had the same attitude for years and now they are paying the price and can't seem to connect with the buying public anymore. I think Springfield being smaller is much smarter than that and I do believe they probably monitor the forums.

Last edited by passx; 05-19-2017 at 08:21 AM.
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  #32  
Old 05-21-2017, 08:11 PM
passx passx is offline
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So all you guy's that sent your guns back for accuracy issues did they get them resolved? What kind of groupings are capable once they repaired your gun and sent it back? Did they happen to specify what they typically did to improve things and get the accuracy ? On mine the almost .005in clearance on the barrel to bushing clearance was a surprise and disappointment, according to Jerry Kuhnhausen a NM grade gun should have a barrel to bushing clearance of less than .001in. Makes me wonder what else is out of tolerance. I'm just hoping to get mine back and right..
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  #33  
Old 05-21-2017, 08:30 PM
shooter223 shooter223 is offline
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Still waiting on mine. It's been gone 4 weeks now. I sure hope they fix it cause it's a major disappointment. My barrel lug fitment had .020" free play. Not sure what else is wrong.

Last edited by shooter223; 05-21-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:09 AM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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So far all I've heard of is pistols going in and SA CS fixing the issues .
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Obi-Wan Kenobi : Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
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  #35  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:31 PM
passx passx is offline
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So let me ask "the" question,,, when you send a gun back does it go to the
'Custom Shop" for repairs or does Springfield have a group of people that just repair guns ? If it goes to the custom shop do they generally give it the once over and fix all the things that aren't right or just address the complaint. This is all new to me and I really don't know what to expect. My new range officer is advertised as a buy and take it to any competition and compete. Everything is labeled as match grade and stamped "NM" and is touted for it's accuracy and reliability.

The main issues I had were that the extractor didn't pull the spent shells out and you couldn't insert a full mag with the slide forward plus the accuracy was less than great, so since they have to pull the back of the gun apart to fix the extractor and figure out why the mags won't go in would they also check the sear and hammer to make sure that it's correct ? Not complaining here just curious about what to expect.
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  #36  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:51 PM
45over9 45over9 is offline
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From my own experience and from what I have read, the RO is the type of pistpl that shoots better the more it is shot, related to the tight fitting.

Mine has been like that. I read of one case where groups were cut in half once the gun had 1000 rounds through it.
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  #37  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:48 AM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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Passx :
The pistol does not go to the Custom Shop. CS has a group of people that fixes guns .

They address the problem or problems that are your concern . If they see
something broken while working on it they will fix it . Broken being the thing .
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Obi-Wan Kenobi : Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
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  #38  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:48 AM
boatdoc boatdoc is offline
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try some 124 gr for a bit and see the difference.

MY RO was worked on by Rob from Benchmark-precision and it is one of my favorite and most accurate guns.

you can always have him work on it for you
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  #39  
Old 05-23-2017, 07:16 AM
f1racefan f1racefan is online now
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I recently bought a RO Champion in 9mm and it wouldn't shoot worth a crap either. I actually had to go back and forth with Springfield a number of times before they'd take it back. It's now been gone 5 weeks and is supposed to be back to me in the next couple of days.

My bone stock Beretta PX4 would shoot groups half the size of the RO at any distance off of the bench. I bought the RO Champion for defensive pistol matches. If it doesn't shoot on par with the Beretta, it will be for sale the moment my bench testing confirms it still shoots crappy.
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  #40  
Old 05-23-2017, 08:32 AM
passx passx is offline
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Thanks billy, that's what I thought would be the case, guess we'll see.

Boatdoc, I have some 124gr on order and should be here in the next couple of days, it seems the heavier rounds are a bit more accurate probably due to them being slower, I plan on giving that a try. They just seem hard to get here locally but are easily available on line, can't wait to get my gun back.
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  #41  
Old 05-23-2017, 09:42 PM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1racefan View Post
I recently bought a RO Champion in 9mm and it wouldn't shoot worth a crap either. I actually had to go back and forth with Springfield a number of times before they'd take it back. It's now been gone 5 weeks and is supposed to be back to me in the next couple of days.


I'll be waiting to see what you think when it comes back .
__________________
Obi-Wan Kenobi : Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2017, 09:49 PM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passx View Post
Thanks billy, that's what I thought would be the case, guess we'll see.

Boatdoc, I have some 124gr on order and should be here in the next couple of days, it seems the heavier rounds are a bit more accurate probably due to them being slower, I plan on giving that a try. They just seem hard to get here locally but are easily available on line, can't wait to get my gun back.



For the first 1000 rds on a 9mm platform 1911 I would stay way from
115 gr bullets . They are to light and can cause feed problems . SA
says stay away from them to . After 1000 rd break in you should be
fine . Also load you Magazines full up and keep them loaded . They
will break in easier . 1911 magazine springs run on the tight side .
__________________
Obi-Wan Kenobi : Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
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  #43  
Old 05-24-2017, 07:14 PM
passx passx is offline
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Thanks Billy, all I've ran so far was 115gr in my emp4 9mm and had no issues past the 1st 200 rounds of issues. My RO had about 200rds on it when I sent it back and had no issues feeding at all but it wouldn't clear a spent shell and got worse with use, plus full mags couldn't be inserted unless the slide was locked back and the accuracy was less than great. I'm hoping things will be better once the gun gets back, but thanks for the inputs. I will say that this ss RO is one of the slickest cycling guns I've ever felt, I was between it and the all stainless Kimber 9mm target and the Springfield just cycled way smoother/better, I didn't think that it was possible.
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  #44  
Old 05-29-2017, 02:54 PM
shooter223 shooter223 is offline
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I just got word from the gunsmith. He said my RO needs a new barrel.
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  #45  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:36 PM
jmx66 jmx66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter223 View Post
I just got word from the gunsmith. He said my RO needs a new barrel.
Curious as to why.
Lug engagement?
VIS interaction?
Bore?
Chamber?


I would be curious what an EGW custom-fit bushing and slide stop would do for these accuracy issues. How does your bushing fit?
Does it fall off the barrel when tipped forward?
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  #46  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:38 PM
shooter223 shooter223 is offline
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he didn't say. i do know that the lugs fit was loose. the bushing is tight. not sure about your other question.

Last edited by shooter223; 05-29-2017 at 07:19 PM.
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  #47  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:31 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45over9 View Post
From my own experience and from what I have read, the RO is the type of pistol that shoots better the more it is shot, related to the tight fitting. Mine has been like that. I read of one case where groups were cut in half once the gun had 1000 rounds through it.
In full custom Bullseye pistols, they'll often "settle" as the barrels and pistol are shot, fouling smooths the bore and the groups go down a bit. Parts are fit and allowed to break in vice get sloppy.
Production barrels are often pretty rough. If they're too rough, they'll foul excessively and hamper accuracy.
Generally we don't clean until accuracy degrades, and then only enough to get it back. Rimfire barrels rarely get cleaned, for both focus is on the chamber with a brush 1 size above the bore.
The RO like the other production 1911s, really don't have much fitting at all. Part of the wonder of MIM and the costs savings. I have one, love it, so not a slam, just the reality of the current production methods. Even some semi-custom shops, like Colt were not allowed to actually fit an oversized slide to a frame until recently, but with the Manager laid off, not sure what the status is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by passx View Post
So let me ask "the" question,,, when you send a gun back does it go to the 'Custom Shop" for repairs or does Springfield have a group of people that just repair guns ? If it goes to the custom shop do they generally give it the once over and fix all the things that aren't right or just address the complaint. This is all new to me and I really don't know what to expect. My new range officer is advertised as a buy and take it to any competition and compete. Everything is labeled as match grade and stamped "NM" and is touted for it's accuracy and reliability.
Production pistols go to warranty for repair by roughly the same group who built it, not the custom shop, unless it was a custom pistol or your custom work had issues. "NM" is simply a stamp for marketing in the majority of companies and there is no industry standard for min group size from a rest at a specific range with a type of ammo, etc. In 45ACP the RO can be quite accurate with a little work, but the 45 is a very forging round to build around. The 9mm, not so much. At 25 yards and less you can get some very respectable near 1" groups from most that we test. At 50 things change dramatically. 9mm starts supersonic and needs to stay that way. Transitioning from super to subsonic is an accuracy killer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy1911 View Post
For the first 1000 rds on a 9mm platform 1911 I would stay way from
115 gr bullets . They are to light and can cause feed problems . SA says stay away from them to . After 1000 rd break in you should be
fine . Also load you Magazines full up and keep them loaded . They will break in easier . 1911 magazine springs run on the tight side .
We shoot 115gr or 124gr for service pistol exclusively. If the 1911 won't feed those from the first trigger squeeze it has setup/fit issues. One exception on a new pistol is that they occasionally won't go into battery when slingshot and that can/will happen regardless of bullet weight as the lockup and slide/frame may be a little too much to overcome for the weaker spring. Other than a courtesy bump at the beginning, no action needed. That level of fit isn't present in a production or probably even semi-custom. IMO, "break in" is used as an excuse for poor fitting and lack of attention by the manufacturer. There are almost no parts fit on a RO, MIM drop in. My full custom bullseye guns are built to at or below 1.25" 50 yard groups and no break in was required. I took my pistol from the Gunsmith and competed with it and won the same day. BTW, we only load 5 rounds in a magazine. No need to load more. We actually avoid it to increase accuracy and reliability. If the slide/frame is excessively tight it can be racked by hand without having to go through the cost of ammunition. Simply disassemble the pistol so only the bare slide and frame are together and check for improperly machined surfaces, which can be addressed. Touch up or have the manufacture correct it and reassemble.

I use this as a guide when I inspect a 1911. Others are well beyond my level of knowledge I'm sure, but I find it a great reference.

A Day With A Master Gunsmith by Chip Lohman, Shooting Sports USA 2009
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/...php?startid=16

Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter223 View Post
I just got word from the gunsmith. He said my RO needs a new barrel.
Production barrels are typically drop in, Dan Wesson does a "semi-drop in" however, good barrels like Colt/Springfield/etc. can often be welded up with great results, but your gunsmiths may not want to exert the effort as a new barrel may be faster and they have a greater probability of good performance. The root problem with most production/semi-custom 9mm barrels is that they're a compromise. The twist rate faster to stabilize heavy bullets, but the range/target weight is much lighter. If you want superb accuracy you will want a KKM slow twist barrel, which is a 1-32 vice the 1-16 or even faster, and have it custom reamed with a gentle transition (leade angle). Hornady 115 gr or 124 gr XTP or HAP in the same weights are terrific. Power Pistol and N-330 are two great consistent powders for 9mm.

Here are a couple of test targets from Bullseye Gunsmiths, if you need contact information shoot me a PM.

10 shots at 50 yards (Caspian Full Custom) by David Sams from a HEG rest



25 shots at 50 yards (Accurized Les Baer) by Jerry Keefer from a Ransom Rest

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Distinguished Pistol #388

Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 05-30-2017 at 08:00 AM.
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  #48  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:53 PM
Billy1911 Billy1911 is offline
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JHN :
A great wealth of knowledge thank you ... I learn something new .
__________________
Obi-Wan Kenobi : Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
SA Lipsey's 9mm Combat Operator /SACS-RO Champion / SACS -Mod Longslide / SACS TGO-1 / SACS Professional w/rail / SA TRP / Wilson CQB / Kimber CDP II / HK P30L / DW Target .
Lots and Lots of plastic army men with a Guns of Navarone play set / A huge Star Wars Clone Army fighting with the Jedi Pre-order 66
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  #49  
Old 05-29-2017, 07:23 PM
shooter223 shooter223 is offline
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That's some outstanding accuracy! I do have the option of having a custom barrel installed if I pay the difference. Wilson or Nighthawk was suggested.
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  #50  
Old 05-29-2017, 10:17 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter223 View Post
That's some outstanding accuracy! I do have the option of having a custom barrel installed if I pay the difference. Wilson or Nighthawk was suggested.
Neither. KKM slow twist. Barrel installation is as important as the barrel itself.
A Guild Gunsmith is a great way to do quality control, a gunsmith who focuses on Bullseye and is a guild gunsmith is even better
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Last edited by JayhawkNavy02; 05-29-2017 at 10:40 PM.
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