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  #1  
Old 11-25-2018, 05:48 PM
chas1988 chas1988 is offline
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Stealth arms build

Has anyone bought stealth arms phantom jig and did one of there builds, with there kits? Are they quality? Is the jig as easy to use as they describe? Thinking bout getting one .

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  #2  
Old 11-25-2018, 06:05 PM
RichG RichG is offline
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I’ve used the Stealth Arms jig with another company’s 80% receivers and built three pistols. Had I to do it over again I’d have purchased 100% receivers and just done those. Aside from the ease, it’s just as fulfilling looking back having built both.


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  #3  
Old 11-25-2018, 06:10 PM
Suburban Suburban is offline
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Forum member MosinVirus has a video on youtube.

It may not be there forever if they decide to crack down even more on firearm content.

https://youtu.be/7FNSU_BVMmA

I think the Matrix Precision rail cutter is better for steel frames though.

Last edited by Suburban; 11-25-2018 at 06:13 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2018, 07:24 PM
ingineer ingineer is offline
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I'd go with the Matrix. Mills the 416 as well as the aluminum, as well as a double stack. I remember Mosin virus moved to this.
1911 builders frames seem to be the best.
Choice of para!
Use a drill press for the holes.

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  #5  
Old 11-25-2018, 08:03 PM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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Unless there’s some law that prevents you from buying a 100% receiver and building it up, 100% is the way to go.

With theses 80% frames and jigs, you’re taking it at face value that the jigs will give you hole spacing that is to spec.

I think they market 80% frames all wrong. They market them to beginners when they should really be marketing them to people with the equipment and skill to locate and drill the holes correctly without needing a jig and Black and Decker cordless drill.

That’s my opinion on them. Take it for what you paid for it
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  #6  
Old 11-25-2018, 10:46 PM
kinnison kinnison is offline
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yep and intend to do more
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:00 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory View Post
Unless there’s some law that prevents you from buying a 100% receiver and building it up, 100% is the way to go.

With theses 80% frames and jigs, you’re taking it at face value that the jigs will give you hole spacing that is to spec.

I think they market 80% frames all wrong. They market them to beginners when they should really be marketing them to people with the equipment and skill to locate and drill the holes correctly without needing a jig and Black and Decker cordless drill.

That’s my opinion on them. Take it for what you paid for it
Good points! I wonder how many smiths have tried them and found poor blanks that cannot be set up properly? A lot of home builders would chalk up a bad blank to “Oh crap...I must have screwed up somehow!”. A pro that mapped out the part prior to twisting the vise handle would return it and keep trying for a decent one or demand a refund after the time wasted. The source for the frame blanks would give an idea. Are they rejects from a supplier to normal venues?? Lots of variables. Good smiths that could overcome issues are probably too buisy to chance the time wasted.
Only advantage would be custom serial numbers...
Joe
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:06 AM
RichG RichG is offline
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Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post

Only advantage would be custom serial numbers...

Joe

All your other points are fairly valid. But this one is attainable for a small fee with many receiver manufacturers.



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  #9  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:22 AM
Suburban Suburban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ingineer View Post
1911 builders frames seem to be the best.
Perhaps, but check their shipping policy before you order. When I ordered, it was that they would only ship signature required unless requested otherwise. Well, I requested otherwise, and my order got shipped signature required anyway. I almost missed the post office pickup window, and had the whole order returned to sender, so I made a fuss about it, and they changed the policy to signature required only.

I have a problem with merchants who will take the customer's money, ignore their request, and then go and do what best serves their own interests.

The way the product descriptions are worded for ramped and non-ramped frames is also a little confusing, unless they finally fixed that.

https://thebuffalo.us seems to sell the same frames as 1911 Builder, and there are probably others.

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  #10  
Old 11-26-2018, 09:11 AM
sevenL4 sevenL4 is offline
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The OP was about Stealth Arms. I've had good results with their jig. They have given me personal attention for a couple of modifications to their basic frame at no extra charge. Actual people answer the phone and respond to emails.
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2018, 05:19 PM
kinnison kinnison is offline
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Not everyone has access to a machine shop . I have a cheap harbor freight drill press and an anvil and a 5 inch vice . Lots

of hand tools and a kitchen table in the motor home I live In . A lot of people don't have the funds for 100% some of us on fixed incomes have to do it the 80% way and buy a few parts monthly in order to get what we want .
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2018, 05:28 PM
RichG RichG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinnison View Post
Not everyone has access to a machine shop . I have a cheap harbor freight drill press and an anvil and a 5 inch vice . Lots

of hand tools and a kitchen table in the motor home I live In . A lot of people don't have the funds for 100% some of us on fixed incomes have to do it the 80% way and buy a few parts monthly in order to get what we want .


80% Gov’t receiver: $185
Rail-cutting and decking jig with all stuff: $240
Drill press on Craigslist: $80
Laser engraving: $32
Shipping: $20
Total: $557

100% receiver and no headaches machine-checkered: $309
Four to six hours’ cutting rails and drilling holes you can now spend with your kids: priceless


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  #13  
Old 11-26-2018, 05:36 PM
wrmiller wrmiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinnison View Post
Not everyone has access to a machine shop . I have a cheap harbor freight drill press and an anvil and a 5 inch vice . Lots

of hand tools and a kitchen table in the motor home I live In . A lot of people don't have the funds for 100% some of us on fixed incomes have to do it the 80% way and buy a few parts monthly in order to get what we want .
I have a lathe and mill in my garage, and I still like the idea of 80% kits. I have only bought one so far, and have had no issues with accuracy/fitment.

I like the idea because I can have it shipped right to my own door, and I don't have to drive to a gun store and pay someone to watch me fill out paperwork.

And now that I was forced to take early retirement, watching my pennies has become more important.
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2018, 05:58 PM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichG View Post
80% Gov’t receiver: $185
Rail-cutting and decking jig with all stuff: $240
Drill press on Craigslist: $80
Laser engraving: $32
Shipping: $20
Total: $557

100% receiver and no headaches machine-checkered: $309
Four to six hours’ cutting rails and drilling holes you can now spend with your kids: priceless


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This right here ^^^

It actually costs more to do 1 80% frame than it does to do 1 100% frame.
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:44 PM
*MAYHEM* *MAYHEM* is offline
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Having built several 1911s on Caspian frames and slides, I've been considering doing an 80% just to see how they turn out and to have the tools in case I decide to try welding on a frame. Still sorta up in the air on which way I wanna go.
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2018, 09:25 PM
weaselfire weaselfire is offline
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If you're doing a 80% for cost effectiveness, you already lost. If you're doing it for education, you already won

Same applies to a 100% build.

And yes, these kits are pretty easy, well designed and work well.

Jeff

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  #17  
Old 11-27-2018, 11:32 AM
Shorikid Shorikid is offline
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80% free only win in the cost department if you are doing 3-5 or more builds over a relatively short time span, say a few years. Otherwise, money is better spent on a good frame.

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  #18  
Old 11-27-2018, 02:11 PM
MosinVirus MosinVirus is offline
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Just read everyone above and I agree with the mindset where if a 100% frame can be obtained, no 80% frame would be considered.

It is the inability to get 100% frames that, in my opinion, created the 80% market.
If I had access to 100% frames I would not have even considered 80%.

The 80% frames now days are actually pretty decent in my limited (and without any exposure to 100% virgin frames) experience.

if picking between Matrix Jig(s) and Phantom, I would go with Matrix each and every time. If you have a mill, I would go with neither of the jigs.
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2018, 04:06 PM
CyberDyneSystems CyberDyneSystems is offline
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Another vote for the Matrix Jig.
Mine has milled 5 frames thus far, and I have two more ready to go.

My nephew and I have really enjoyed the 80% build experience. His 1911 builders double stack came out absolutely tight! I've built (and will continue to build) 100% frames as well, (particularly when I can find a good bargain) but I truly enjoy the 80% aspects of the build as well.

- One other plus to an 80% not mentioned is total control over the slide to frame tolerances.
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2018, 04:24 PM
RichG RichG is offline
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Originally Posted by CyberDyneSystems View Post
- One other plus to an 80% not mentioned is total control over the slide to frame tolerances.

Through my orders of 100% receivers from JEM I’ve been able to request rail widths as wide as 0.758” and rail channel depth by request. Complete control of slide-to-receiver tolerances when using the Matrix slide measuring and rail sanding jigs to carefully bring rails to selected width and fit like butter.



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  #21  
Old 11-27-2018, 06:05 PM
MosinVirus MosinVirus is offline
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Originally Posted by RichG View Post
Through my orders of 100% receivers from JEM I’ve been able to request rail widths as wide as 0.758” and rail channel depth by request. Complete control of slide-to-receiver tolerances when using the Matrix slide measuring and rail sanding jigs to carefully bring rails to selected width and fit like butter.



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Some day...
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2018, 06:41 PM
nlvmike nlvmike is offline
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I built a Stealth Arms 80%. I agree with the advice, especially from EA. The only reason I went with an 80% was to cut the rails EXACTLY like I wanted them, for a very precision fit. I did not use a jig, just an old Bridgeport. The end result is fantastic, but was not built to save money.
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2018, 09:10 PM
RichG RichG is offline
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Some day...


So, Igor...

Not to commandeer the thread (because I think this can be answered in one question—and avoiding the obvious political back-and-forth), but what is the deal with 100% receivers in California? What is the central point behind the restrictions?


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  #24  
Old 11-27-2018, 09:44 PM
MosinVirus MosinVirus is offline
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Originally Posted by RichG View Post
So, Igor...

Not to commandeer the thread (because I think this can be answered in one question—and avoiding the obvious political back-and-forth), but what is the deal with 100% receivers in California? What is the central point behind the restrictions?


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When purchasing new handguns from dealers one has to perform a Safe Handling Demonstration. One cannot perform a safe handling demonstration with a frame only.

Also, we have the Roster of Certified Handguns. They are considered "Safe" handguns while other Off-Roster handguns are considered "Unsafe". LE and other people with exemptions can get Unsafe handguns. Regular people can only get Unsafe handguns via Private Party Transfers at dealers from other CA residents. When doing PPT I believe a safe handling demonstration is not needed. Bottom line is that Unsafe handguns are not illegal to own, but they are difficult to get and as result are super expensive.

The point behind all restrictions is to limit or hinder gun ownership and to make money for the state in the process.

By the way, the Off-Roster handguns via private party transfer go for a lot more here. For example Gen 5 Glocks sell for over $1100. Also, no new handguns can be added to the roster I believe because they don't have micro-stamping.
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Last edited by MosinVirus; 11-27-2018 at 09:47 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2018, 05:42 PM
chas1988 chas1988 is offline
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Thanks for the information, greatly appreciated.

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