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  #76  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:13 AM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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This is set up somewhere between 7-8 degrees.
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Last edited by EvolutionArmory; 11-20-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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  #77  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:36 AM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyCustom View Post
It absolutely is a win/win modification. Anyone claiming that there are downsides is ill informed. Is it absolutely necessary for everyone? Of course not. No one is trying to sell you some snake oil here. If you wanna buy snake oil, Froglube is still in business. We're just saying that there are quantifiable results to be had from doing this. End of story.
Let’s address the term “snake oil”. One member here referred to mods like this and things like full length guide rods and a couple other mods as “snake oil”. There’s no such thing when it comes to mods that give a shooter an edge they need. All of these mods do something, no matter how small they may be. I know I don’t have to tell you this. You just made me remember the other snake oil comment from before and this post is to add emphasis to your post.

Checkering does help you control the gun better in your hand.
Full length guide rods do add weight to the front of the pistol.
Serrated rears of slides do cut down glare, so do serrated tops.
Magwells do help you reload faster.
Undercuts and high rise beavertails do help lower the center of the bore.
This disconnector mod does change the way the first round is chambered.

None of these things are really debatable. What is debatable is how much of an advantage it really gives that ONE individual.

And in any competitive environment, if you aren’t looking for any edge that is still within the rules, you’re doing winning wrong.
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Last edited by EvolutionArmory; 11-20-2018 at 09:41 AM.
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  #78  
Old 11-20-2018, 09:43 AM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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And to add to my last post, if you aren’t in a competitive environment, why wouldn’t you want the best tool available within your means?
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  #79  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:27 AM
AlchemyCustom AlchemyCustom is offline
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So...Froglube and Fireclean are indeed snake oil though, right? Or, should I say, coconut oil and vegetable oil respectively.
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  #80  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:48 AM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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Alright, maybe Froglube is.
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  #81  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:36 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apipeguy View Post
I’ve seen some photos of short ones and some of long ones. It’d be curious to see photos of what people are currently making.
I will repost mine when I can in a few days.
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  #82  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:21 PM
JNW JNW is offline
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There are group of folks who enjoy modifying Ruger 10/22 rifles and turn them into all sorts of shooters, indlucing bench rest rifles. You can get one to be pretty darned accurate. However, they virtually all throw first round flyers because the first round is loaded from a static bolt instead of a bolt going through the firing sequence. Even my modest, but highly modified, 10/22 sporter does this. You shoot 5 round groups by throwing the first round away and keep changing mags while there is a round in the chamber.
I still don't understand why folks who fret over ball end mill cuts, which last time I checked did not affect the function of the gun, get upset about some people wanting a disco ramp to make their gun better. To each their own.
Jeff
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Last edited by JNW; 11-20-2018 at 10:08 PM.
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  #83  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:41 PM
ballman6711 ballman6711 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW View Post
There are group of folks who enjoy modifying Ruger 10/22 rifles and turn them into all sorts of shooters, indlucing bench rest rifles. You can get one to be pretty darned accurate. However, they virtually all throw first round flyers because the first round is loaded from a static bolt instead of a bolt going through the firing sequence. Even my modest, by highly modified, 10/22 sporter does this. You shoot 5 round groups by throwing the first round away and keep changing mags while there is a round in the chamber.
I still don't understand why folks who fret over ball end mill cuts, which last time I checked did not affect the function of the gun, get upset about some people wanting a disco ramp to make their gun better. To each their own.
Jeff
Been following this thread with great interest. But my 10/22 doesn't have fliers.

Three round groups at 100 yds will be covered with a dime. Five round groups will too. First round shot from a clean cold barrel, follow up shots within thirty seconds or less. But I spent a lot of time building it!

As for 1911 pistols, I don't know, haven't tested it.

chris
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  #84  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:50 PM
ballman6711 ballman6711 is offline
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I should have stated that my three and five round groups are from a "static" bolt. But again, I spent a lot of time researching and building my 10/22.

chris
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  #85  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:21 PM
passx passx is offline
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Well I shot my SA EMP4 today that I added the disconnector ramp to, a little disappointed in the fact that it didn’t make me into a very tight group bullseye shooter��, did it eliminate the first round flier, well no but I think the results speak more about the shooter than the gun.

Did it help ? Yes, the first round flier is grouped better/closer but not eliminated, but I would bet that it’s me more than the gun after today. Setup in a ransom rest I believe this gun would give a good accounting of itself but I don’t think Rob or EA have anything to worry about. The gun is noticeably smoother and I didn’t see any negatives in it. That’s my very limited take on it. By the way I was shooting a 2 hand hold at 10yds so this is not a scientific test/outcome at all.

Last edited by passx; 11-20-2018 at 10:23 PM.
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  #86  
Old 11-21-2018, 06:44 AM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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But it did help move your first round closer to the group. The mod did what it was designed to do. I can’t speak for the EMP or it’s accuracy potential though as I don’t have any experience with the gun.

And your last paragraph sums it up great. No negatives, only positives. The gun cycles smoother and DID change how your gun groups for the better.
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Last edited by EvolutionArmory; 11-21-2018 at 06:47 AM.
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  #87  
Old 11-21-2018, 08:31 AM
rrabullseye rrabullseye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory View Post
Let’s address the term “snake oil”. One member here referred to mods like this and things like full length guide rods and a couple other mods as “snake oil”. There’s no such thing when it comes to mods that give a shooter an edge they need. All of these mods do something, no matter how small they may be. I know I don’t have to tell you this. You just made me remember the other snake oil comment from before and this post is to add emphasis to your post.

Checkering does help you control the gun better in your hand.
Full length guide rods do add weight to the front of the pistol.
Serrated rears of slides do cut down glare, so do serrated tops.
Magwells do help you reload faster.
Undercuts and high rise beavertails do help lower the center of the bore.
This disconnector mod does change the way the first round is chambered.

None of these things are really debatable. What is debatable is how much of an advantage it really gives that ONE individual.

And in any competitive environment, if you aren’t looking for any edge that is still within the rules, you’re doing winning wrong.

Forgot the flat Firing pin stop. It DOES prolong barrel lock up and assists with accuracy and felt recoil reduction
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  #88  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:01 AM
passx passx is offline
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I will add that in addition to the disco ramp I also did a flat bottom FPS which reduced the “felt” recoil making the gun much more pleasant to shoot. While I don’t see winning any competitions with this gun (or me for that matter) it is quite accurate and I do enjoy shooting it, one of my absolute fav’s. It just runs,,,, well !
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  #89  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:41 AM
Metal Smith Metal Smith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrabullseye View Post
Forgot the flat Firing pin stop. It DOES prolong barrel lock up and assists with accuracy and felt recoil reduction
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't original Browning 1911's have a squared pin stop, changed to radius contour to cock easier fur the military?

And the disconnector cut was a hole in the slide, later changed to the half moon groove we see today?
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Last edited by Metal Smith; 11-21-2018 at 10:44 AM.
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  #90  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:44 AM
AlchemyCustom AlchemyCustom is offline
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Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Smith View Post
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't original Browning 1911's have a squared pin stop, changed to radius contour to cock easier fur the military?

And the disconnector grove in the slide was a hole, later changed to the half moon groove?
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  #91  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:46 AM
kinnison kinnison is offline
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I did not know that this thread has become …….. interesting .
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  #92  
Old 11-21-2018, 11:35 AM
log man log man is offline
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As to the original 1911 firing pin stop, not quite as square as many of us use today but..



LOG
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  #93  
Old 11-22-2018, 06:15 AM
txtard txtard is offline
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How much would it cost to do this to a slide?
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  #94  
Old 11-22-2018, 09:44 AM
Metal Smith Metal Smith is offline
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Howdy Folk's, Happy Tee day to all, and may God Bless

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I have seen this disconnector ramp before, and not on a 1911, and it was on a factory gun, so I won't call it a 'modification'. Was it the old S&W model 52's??

Strictly observing here friends, as I have never did any definitive testing for first round accuracy as others have here. Obviously, we have some very competent smiths that have proven it, at least to themselves, that is does make a difference.

Far be it fur me to drive the 'wedge' any deeper between the sayer's & nea sayer's here. BUT!

Has anyone stopped to consider no 2 rounds feed the same in a magazine fed pistol? The first round being the hardest to strip and the last being the easiest? As the bullets are stripped from the mag the cartridges put less tension on the bottom of the slide and the slide velocity increases.

I have yet to see a 1911 mag where the first, second, third round does not nose dive into the feed ramp, sometimes the first round will hit the bottom of the ramp and stop the slide and jam, and it is not uncommon to see it drive the bullet back into the case, and deform the bullet noses.

And if this round chambers and fires good lord only knows where that bullet will hit?

A little disconnector bump seems a minor thing when considering the bullet hitting the bottom of the ramp? Dam! now that's REALLY slowing down the cycle.

Heck, maybe a little disconnector drag could be a good thing considering how how hard that first round hits?

Anyway, obviously there is a happy medium if guys can rip little bug hole groups with their 1911.

Wedge Driver Pete
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Last edited by Metal Smith; 11-22-2018 at 09:47 AM.
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  #95  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:47 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Smith View Post
Has anyone stopped to consider no 2 rounds feed the same in a magazine fed pistol? The first round being the hardest to strip and the last being the easiest? As the bullets are stripped from the mag the cartridges put less tension on the bottom of the slide and the slide velocity increases.
Do they make progressive style springs to help keep up force about the same no matter how many rounds are in the mag?
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  #96  
Old 11-22-2018, 01:24 PM
Rowlf Rowlf is offline
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The S&W M52 was one of the earliest appearances of the disconnector ramp but I am not sure which years had it. My 1982 M52-2 does not have it but keep in mind S&W management over the years tried to suck all the nickels out of their production methods so probably someone decided to save a few dollars on machining costs that year.

When shooting in Precision Pistol competitions most competitors load five rounds and use weak springs in the 1911 magazine. Five rounds feed a little different than seven or eight. Some shooters will have a 50 yard magazine as the magazines can affect grouping.

It is interesting to see feed ramp impact between each round if you have a dirty feed ramp. I once had to diagnose a feed problem and tested magazines loaded with 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 rounds to see why 4 or less would feed but loaded with 5 wouldn't.

You may find this strange but I've never loaded more than five rounds in any of my competition pistols. No need to.

Last edited by Rowlf; 11-22-2018 at 01:28 PM.
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  #97  
Old 11-22-2018, 02:05 PM
log man log man is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
Do they make progressive style springs to help keep up force about the same no matter how many rounds are in the mag?
Well, think about it. A progressive spring starts out easier to compress and is full strength at full compression, no can't be any other way. So would be counter productive in a magazine.

What does help is a smaller wire with more coils mag spring such as CMC uses in the RPM mags, 18 coils vs 11 coils in others. This is a benefit since more coils means each coil moves less per round and from the first round to the last the tension is closer. And then when you only load 5-6 rounds in an 8 rd. mag it is pretty smooth feeding.

LOG
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  #98  
Old 11-22-2018, 02:11 PM
4whlr 4whlr is offline
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And in any competitive environment, if you aren’t looking for any edge that is still within the rules, you’re doing winning wrong.

That is the true there

I do the disconnector cut not because I’m at a level that I can tell a difference, but because I like the way it feels. And if anything, I like my strokes to be smooth.
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  #99  
Old 11-22-2018, 08:04 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
Do they make progressive style springs to help keep up force about the same no matter how many rounds are in the mag?
Once upon a time there was a company by the name of Eagle Industry that manufactured single stack 1911 mags that used a flat spring that ran down one side of the magazine and attached under the follower. This flat spring rolled up under the follower as it rose in the tube. This resulted in constant pressure being applied no matter how many rounds were in the mag. It also allowed for more rounds in the mag. For example the Officer size Eagle mag I have in front of me holds 8 rounds. The Government size mags that I sent to Ed Brown in exchange for new Checkmate mags held 9 or 10 rounds - I've forgotten which. The weakness of these mags was the strength of the tubes. They tended to bow out when fully loaded.
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  #100  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:43 AM
passx passx is offline
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This has been a great and very informative thread, ,, thx, guy’s
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