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  #1  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:04 PM
jedi391 jedi391 is offline
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To all the police out there, keep your heads up

It’s been a rough year for everyone and uniquely so for police. Things have changed so much. Covid-19 changed deployment strategies and how calls are handled. At the beginning, when most people were terrified of this, we went on going to calls....domestics in peoples homes, medical calls where people with respiratory issues who recently became sick suddenly died in their homes....were we now going to get sick? No one really knew for sure. We kept going, sanitizing patrol vehicles before every day. Then dealing with the issues that suddenly sprung up when everyone was stuck at home, family fights, neighbor fights, constant thefts and robberies at the few stores open.....suicides and people having nervous breakdowns on top of everything else. Covid, or at least the policies put in place by our elected representatives have created economic ruin and anger, frustration, and anxiousness in the communities we serve in.

Then it got even worse with the death of George Floyd. We all watched it on TV, saw how bad it was and how terrible it would be for Minneapolis PD, how much pain there would be for Floyd’s family and friends, how the media would milk it as far as they could with the most sensationalized version of stories. We knew there’d be fringe people out there shouting that all cops were bad, we’d be called names, treated with disrespect. We knew the politicians, local, state, and federal would not waste a moment to use the situation to their advantage and activist groups wouldn’t be far behind.....never let a crisis go to waste after all. None of us saw this turning into a call to abolish police, to it being, at least in some social circles, acceptable to openly hate us. That somehow we were all suddenly responsible for the actions of someone in some cases further away from us than the southern tip of Greece is from the northern tip of Denmark. We didn’t see coming the scores of officers hurt, we certainly didn’t see officers being murdered. We didn’t see communities approving of veritable children holding rallies denouncing us and making judgements and insults about us, who they’ve never met or interacted with. Thing is, most of us could deal with all that. It was the impacts on our families. Coming home and seeing your wife crying or hearing your children angrily defend you and than having to after an incredibly long tiring and trying day.....have to sit down with them and tell them you were okay, to console them and put them back together while pretending you were fine.....even though....how could you be? To tell them to turn the other cheek, that it would pass, that they didn’t need to defend you and alienate friends in the process, that this would all work out. Then of course the reductions in funding, the broken contracts, the knowledge that many would gladly and were actively working to cancel you, to take what you had put so much blood sweat and tears into in order to serve your community and degrade it.

The politicians gladly capitulated to the crowds....gotta keep their approval ratings up. Your own mayors and city councils who were buddy buddy with you just before now called for your end. They told you to enforce the law and protect the city......and then called you things like gestapo when you did. They made it sure any proposition you were involved with was a losing one. Than you have to go online and read ridiculous posts from people who say they’re with you but goon to slam you and make ignorant statements and judgements about what you did wrong and how you’re losing them now. People who have no clue, no understanding, no experience, knowledge, who gladly pontificate about what they think you should be doing. Who are so happy to volunteer your physical safety, legal safety, financial safety, and that of your family.

My father is a decorated Vietnam veteran. He went into finance after the war. I was at his house During much of this and one day he put his hand on my shoulder and said that sadly we now had one more thing in common. The knowledge of what it feels like to be devalued and hated by many in the country you tried your best to serve....who never had and never will have a clue of what it was actually like. He also told me that I knew, that my brothers (and sisters know) and ultimately that would be enough. He’s right. I have so much appreciation for all of my brothers and sisters throughout the country. For all of you, because if you’ve made it this far there’s a good chance that’s who you are. We will know an appreciation and bond for each other that few others will.....and we know the truth, which I believe history will ultimately make clear. In the meantime here’s a quote I believe applies to you:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
  #2  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:08 PM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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God bless all those who go into harm's way in service of their fellow man.

Why anyone would want to be an LEO in this caustic environment is beyond me, but I am certainly glad that they are still out there getting it done.
  #3  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:32 PM
Tenring1911 Tenring1911 is online now
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A big THANK YOU to all the LEO's out there, your efforts are much appreciated by many. You all have the prayers and full support of my whole family.
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:08 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is online now
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Originally Posted by Sistema1927 View Post
God bless all those who go into harm's way in service of their fellow man.

Why anyone would want to be an LEO in this caustic environment is beyond me, but I am certainly glad that they are still out there getting it done.
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Originally Posted by Tenring1911 View Post
A big THANK YOU to all the LEO's out there, your efforts are much appreciated by many. You all have the prayers and full support of my whole family.
hear hear!
  #5  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:15 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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I’m thankful they are still out there.
Did you write this yourself Jedi or is it a copy and paste?
Just curious, either way it’s true.
Thank you
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:17 PM
Timbo3 Timbo3 is online now
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Most people appreciate and support all you in LE. And understand what life would be like if you were not standing in the gap.
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2020, 09:23 PM
jedi391 jedi391 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Iím thankful they are still out there.
Did you write this yourself Jedi or is it a copy and paste?
Just curious, either way itís true.
Thank you
I wrote it, just my experience. I appreciate all the kind words. After the other thread I figured Iíd get slammed but just had to get it off my chest.
  #8  
Old 08-07-2020, 09:40 PM
Bluesdog Bluesdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi391 View Post

Than you have to go online and read ridiculous posts from people who say they’re with you but goon to slam you and make ignorant statements and judgements about what you did wrong and how you’re losing them now. People who have no clue, no understanding, no experience, knowledge, who gladly pontificate about what they think you should be doing. Who are so happy to volunteer your physical safety, legal safety, financial safety, and that of your family.
I may be the target of this ad hominem attack, maybe not, but probably so. The thread I started here was locked for unknown reason.

To all the good police officers that did not stand by and watch the people they swore to protect get victimized, didn't allow their communities to burn, and didn't watch as our historical monuments were torn down - thank you, God Bless you and thank you again.

To all those police we saw stand in line and do NOTHING while crimes were committed in front of them and to those police who arrested and harassed those trying to exercise their constitutional rights, I will respectfully leave you with this:

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito (Latin: Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it).

Liberty is meaningless if it is only the liberty to agree with those in power - Ludwig von Mises

And finally from Thomas Paine, December 19, 1776 - "If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace".
  #9  
Old 08-07-2020, 09:43 PM
OZ 1911 OZ 1911 is offline
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Thank you all for your service every day.

Grant
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  #10  
Old 08-07-2020, 10:55 PM
jedi391 jedi391 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesdog View Post
I may be the target of this ad hominem attack, maybe not, but probably so. The thread I started here was locked for unknown reason.

To all the good police officers that did not stand by and watch the people they swore to protect get victimized, didn't allow their communities to burn, and didn't watch as our historical monuments were torn down - thank you, God Bless you and thank you again.

To all those police we saw stand in line and do NOTHING while crimes were committed in front of them and to those police who arrested and harassed those trying to exercise their constitutional rights, I will respectfully leave you with this:

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito (Latin: Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it).

Liberty is meaningless if it is only the liberty to agree with those in power - Ludwig von Mises

And finally from Thomas Paine, December 19, 1776 - "If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace".
Iíll just say that things seem very simple often times to those who are the most ignorant on the subject they choose to speak on. I have no wish for debate. Iíve said my peace and the people who know know. People who donít don't.

Lots of people gave my Dad their opinion of Vietnam and what he and his buddies should have or have not done while they were in the jungle. He told me it was pointless to try and talk to someone who hadnít been there in the jungle. He also pointed out that often the ones most ignorant and who said the most ridiculous things to anyone who had actually been there....were often the most self righteous and self assured in their position. Iíve learned much from my father.
  #11  
Old 08-08-2020, 12:44 AM
JMERC4 JMERC4 is offline
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God Bless you jedi391 and all of our brothers/ sisters. Thanks to all for your continued support!



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  #12  
Old 08-08-2020, 06:44 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Jedi, it is very unfortunate, you wrote such a lovely piece of post about how honorable the cops are and how important they are. And this is absolutely true...BUT then you tainted it by accusing other posters of being ignorant and having the gall to question what is going on in the Lefty Hell Holes. Sir, you may want to examine your own ignorance. That thread was a reasonable issue to bring up by the O.P. How would you like to live in Seattle or Portland or NYC now? Or how about if your Grand-Nanny lived there now? The animals (Marxist-Mob) just the other day threw paint in the face of some very senior-citizen women who was trying to put out a fire on a Police Station in Portland! (Not to mention other Senior citizens who were attacked). She showed an amazing amount of courage. So don't disparage people if they wonder why the Cops in these Lefty-Hell-Holes are listening to their political leaders more then they should. Lives are at stake, it is a fair question to debate.

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/portlan...lice-precinct/
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Last edited by combat auto; 08-08-2020 at 06:51 AM.
  #13  
Old 08-08-2020, 07:06 AM
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The other thread was closed because it was off-topic for this sub-forum. This sub-forum, LEO Duty, has a description of what it is primarily for: The 1911 in Law Enforcement Duty, and is not a general political discussion sub-forum. As moderators, we generally give a pretty good amount of leeway, but this sub-forum, and this whole forum, is about discussions of firearms, and not for political discussion. If this thread goes the same way, political discussion, it will be closed as well.
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2020, 08:48 PM
jedi391 jedi391 is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Jedi, it is very unfortunate, you wrote such a lovely piece of post about how honorable the cops are and how important they are. And this is absolutely true...BUT then you tainted it by accusing other posters of being ignorant and having the gall to question what is going on in the Lefty Hell Holes. Sir, you may want to examine your own ignorance. That thread was a reasonable issue to bring up by the O.P. How would you like to live in Seattle or Portland or NYC now? Or how about if your Grand-Nanny lived there now? The animals (Marxist-Mob) just the other day threw paint in the face of some very senior-citizen women who was trying to put out a fire on a Police Station in Portland! (Not to mention other Senior citizens who were attacked). She showed an amazing amount of courage. So don't disparage people if they wonder why the Cops in these Lefty-Hell-Holes are listening to their political leaders more then they should. Lives are at stake, it is a fair question to debate.

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/portlan...lice-precinct/
The problem is your speaking from a position of ignorance. Police in our system are under the control of elected leaders. Theyíre not supposed to go rogue. One thing to note, at least in the state that Iím in, citizens arrests are perfectly legal. Youíve identified plenty of issues, head downtown and start making some citizens arrests. The other thought is what have you done to help? Our city council meetings are full of activists demanding that the police do less. Have you attended your city or county council meeting in person to make sure the decision makers elected by the people know you support the rule of law? If you havenít done that at least Iím not particularly interested in your criticism.

Then there are the practical concerns. We exist in a rigid hierarchy/command structure intentionally where the ultimate authority is not the police but the elected representatives put in place by the people. If we choose to just disregard that and go rogue itís likely to result in a use of force as weíve seen. Jail wonít accept him probably right off the bat. Now what? Released on scene? Lock him in my garage ar home? Then thereís the report where you have to explain and justify why you disregarded direct orders before even getting to the use of force. That review board is going to be a peach also. Youíll be out of policy before you even start reviewing the facts. The board will be very against you and the DA will look for any reason to prosecute you even if itís obvious you were in any other situation justified. Youíll be quite possibly arrested and charged and fired. The news will be all over you. Your face will be on every news cycle as the brutal evil cop and then your address will be posted on line. Your wife and kids will be harassed if not attacked at home (itís already happened) while youíre in jail unable to help.

Your defense attorney will probably get you bail and get you out and a year later (there will be no income for your family during that year and no one is giving you a job) youíll go through a very public and hellacious trial. Youíll probably be acquitted and then when you go to get your job back on appeal the agency will point out that you violated policy and were insubordinate so the firing stands. Ask yourself what Darren Wilson is doing for a job these days after he was acquitted. Youíve ruined your life, your families lives, and Your children and wife will live with you broken and in poverty. Thatís if your lucky. Tremendous stress often leads to divorces. Also as youíll be so broken by this that people will find it uncomfortable to be around you so slowly youíll be left isolated and alone. This doesnít even take into account the fact that you probably dragged other officers into it with you who didnít want to leave you hanging in the wind when you decided to follow this path. More than likely youíve dragged them down this same road along with their families in tow. How many lives have you ruined at this point? May have to keep a list. Oh by the way the guy you arrested? He never spent a minute in jail and certainly wasnít charged. He also sued you and the department and heís bought himself a new car. So you think this is an easy decision to make but you canít show up for a city council meeting to express your support for the actions you want to see. If you, by miracle actually are one of the unicorns who showed up at a city council meeting to voice your support for the rule of law than I applaud you.

If youíre asking how I used my imagination to come up with such a scenario.....I didnít have to. In one form or another all of this has already happened to people and if you think Iím going to do that to my family, both extended and immediate, and the families of my brothers who Iím going to drag down with me over a property crime? In defiance of the civilian elected leaders put in place by the people? Well thatís as likely as you showing up to that city council meeting. The decision looks a lot more simple when your family isnít in the line. Refer to the quote in the original post for my thoughts on that.

Last edited by jedi391; 08-08-2020 at 09:09 PM.
  #15  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:49 PM
Bluesdog Bluesdog is offline
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Jedi391, in my late 20's just married, I quit a job I felt they were asking me to be unethical and against my morals. 30 years later best thing I ever did.

I sincerely hope any police officer that is working under the conditions and chain of command you mention really consider if selling their soul for a paycheck is worth it.

Everything you mention may be true, but that simply doesn't justify refusal to act according to your oath or morals.

If the cops cannot and will not protect us then why have them there. Why pay for police protection that will not come. The reality is the police presence only protects the rioters from the silent majority. If police stepped aside the silent majority will quickly quiet the streets.

But its worse, you give reasons why police cannot uphold the law in certain circumstances, but you do not address why police do not stop arresting those trying to protect themselves or their property. Why did police arrest the Proud Boys in NY and let Antifa off when Antifa started it? Why take the guns from St. Louis couple and arrest them, why couldn't individual officers simply refuse? Why arrest gym owners just trying to feed their family and ignore other law breakers?

If you can refrain from arresting rioters why can't you simply refrain from arresting those looking out for themselves? (By "you" I mean police collectively, not you personally). If it's only a paycheck you are protecting remeber that the "left", those you are protecting, have vowed to defund you and take away your paycheck anyway.

In VA we have the VCDL and members going to every municpality to try to beat back the winds of gun control. In some areas it is working but in the "liberal area's" the city councils don't care what citizens want, but only put in place Soros' and Bloomberg's gun control bans, and unfortunately their voters are the majority. And sadly police will back these unconsitutional laws while giving pass to street rioters. Sad, truly sad.

Last edited by Bluesdog; 08-08-2020 at 11:31 PM.
  #16  
Old 08-08-2020, 11:21 PM
warbird1 warbird1 is offline
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Ya'll need to chill. The moderator has already warned you. No need to try to get the last word in.
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2020, 11:40 PM
jedi391 jedi391 is offline
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I think for the most part Iíve made my position as clear as I can. As I have been asked to keep this or at the very least not contribute to it going off the rails I will end my participation here. I appreciate the moderators allowing me to express my views on the matter.
  #18  
Old 08-09-2020, 05:44 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi391 View Post
The problem is your speaking from a position of ignorance. Police in our system are under the control of elected leaders. They’re not supposed to go rogue. One thing to note, at least in the state that I’m in, citizens arrests are perfectly legal. You’ve identified plenty of issues, head downtown and start making some citizens arrests. The other thought is what have you done to help? Our city council meetings are full of activists demanding that the police do less. Have you attended your city or county council meeting in person to make sure the decision makers elected by the people know you support the rule of law? If you haven’t done that at least I’m not particularly interested in your criticism.

Then there are the practical concerns. We exist in a rigid hierarchy/command structure intentionally where the ultimate authority is not the police but the elected representatives put in place by the people. If we choose to just disregard that and go rogue it’s likely to result in a use of force as we’ve seen. Jail won’t accept him probably right off the bat. Now what? Released on scene? Lock him in my garage ar home? Then there’s the report where you have to explain and justify why you disregarded direct orders before even getting to the use of force. That review board is going to be a peach also. You’ll be out of policy before you even start reviewing the facts. The board will be very against you and the DA will look for any reason to prosecute you even if it’s obvious you were in any other situation justified. You’ll be quite possibly arrested and charged and fired. The news will be all over you. Your face will be on every news cycle as the brutal evil cop and then your address will be posted on line. Your wife and kids will be harassed if not attacked at home (it’s already happened) while you’re in jail unable to help.

Your defense attorney will probably get you bail and get you out and a year later (there will be no income for your family during that year and no one is giving you a job) you’ll go through a very public and hellacious trial. You’ll probably be acquitted and then when you go to get your job back on appeal the agency will point out that you violated policy and were insubordinate so the firing stands. Ask yourself what Darren Wilson is doing for a job these days after he was acquitted. You’ve ruined your life, your families lives, and Your children and wife will live with you broken and in poverty. That’s if your lucky. Tremendous stress often leads to divorces. Also as you’ll be so broken by this that people will find it uncomfortable to be around you so slowly you’ll be left isolated and alone. This doesn’t even take into account the fact that you probably dragged other officers into it with you who didn’t want to leave you hanging in the wind when you decided to follow this path. More than likely you’ve dragged them down this same road along with their families in tow. How many lives have you ruined at this point? May have to keep a list. Oh by the way the guy you arrested? He never spent a minute in jail and certainly wasn’t charged. He also sued you and the department and he’s bought himself a new car. So you think this is an easy decision to make but you can’t show up for a city council meeting to express your support for the actions you want to see. If you, by miracle actually are one of the unicorns who showed up at a city council meeting to voice your support for the rule of law than I applaud you.

If you’re asking how I used my imagination to come up with such a scenario.....I didn’t have to. In one form or another all of this has already happened to people and if you think I’m going to do that to my family, both extended and immediate, and the families of my brothers who I’m going to drag down with me over a property crime? In defiance of the civilian elected leaders put in place by the people? Well that’s as likely as you showing up to that city council meeting. The decision looks a lot more simple when your family isn’t in the line. Refer to the quote in the original post for my thoughts on that.
You are displaying ignorance, there are lots of ways the Police in these lefty hell-holes can have their voices heard. Stop trying to make excuses rather than doing something...Have you ever heard of Civil-Disobedience, are cops in the Lefty hell holes given a pass in this regard from doing the right thing. At least one Hero-Lt. cop in Denver refused the stand-down order and saved conservative speakers from getting the crap beat out of them and possibly even killed (I posted the link in the other thread), why can't more.

I appreciate your comments about how the deck is stacked against cops in these lefty cities, but we know from history, if Cops don't fight back against their Political-masters, more will be taken away from them, not less. That goes for any group when under assault. Do nothing and they will take more from you, you have already lost. My goodness, if you feel that doing their job is too risky in these lefty cities, why are you taking a pay check.

And your comment about citizens making arrest is even more ignorant and completely bizarre. I guess you think it falls on the unarmed Grandmother who showed more courage than the Cops in Portland to defend the police station...And got paint thrown in her face. Other civilian's in these lefty hell-holes have spoken out against the Marxist mob on behalf of Cops and got the crap beat out of them and even killed. GOOD-citizen's are doing their part to support cops all across the country and even in the Lefty-Hell-Holes, while you make excuses. "Sorry Grandma, I'm just following order's."

Or how about the Brilliance coming from the Minneapolis Police the other day advising American Citizens to "give-in" to criminals, give them whatever that want. Is this the level of service good citizens should just swallow from their Police Departments.

Here is a new poll - overwhelming support of cops, even in "Black-America". The country is behind the Police. In the Left-hell holes, PD's need to do their part and go against their Political-bosses like the Hero-Lt.-Cop did in Denver. It can be done.

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When asked whether they want the police to spend more time, the same amount of time or less time than they currently do in their area, most Black Americans -- 61% -- want the police presence to remain the same. This is similar to the 67% of all U.S. adults preferring the status quo, including 71% of White Americans.


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Last edited by combat auto; 08-09-2020 at 07:03 AM.
  #19  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:05 AM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is online now
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Closed, once again off the rails.
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