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  #1  
Old 05-22-2020, 12:32 PM
mlpalmer mlpalmer is offline
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hrmmm

I sold a Wilson combat QCB, which always ran perfect for me. I included two Wilson mags.
This person is now messaging me indicating he is getting a lot of failure to feed...with both mags I have him. He sent these photos of the malfunction. Since it happened on both mags..i am trying to rule out mags. He is using "full Power" reloads..and not low recoil. anyone have any ideas.
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  #2  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:17 PM
SV 22 SV 22 is offline
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I cannot help you rule out mags, but I have seen similar malfunctions when the shooter is absorbing too much of the recoil. This would be more likely if you have increased the spring weights. I would ask for someone else to shoot the gun to see if the same thing happens.
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  #3  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:26 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Wonder what bullet.
Tell him to try factory loads.
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  #4  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:40 PM
jtq jtq is offline
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These days I always assume folks are primarily Glock shooters, and my first suspicion is the gun is significantly under-lubed. However, Jim's "what bullet" is a good question to have answered.
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  #5  
Old 05-22-2020, 07:08 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Is the malfunction only happening with the last round in the magazine?

When the malfunction occurs will pushing the muzzle against a solid object like a tree or wooden post cause the slide to snap forward and chamber the round? If yes then it's possible the new owner's reloads are too long or too short allowing the nose of the bullet to impact the barrel ramp causing the barrel to move forward and up too early resulting in a three point jam.
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  #6  
Old 05-22-2020, 07:48 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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Interesting that you posted this. I have a new Wilson ULC, 5" gun. I was getting similar failures of the slide to return to battery. The pistol would fire a round or two and then stop. It was easily cleared by pulling back on the slide and then chambering the round. Mine happened religiously on the 5th round in every magazine??? I called Wilson and the customer service rep told me that the magazine springs were very tight and to load up the magazines with 8 rounds and leave them for a few days. I did that, retested the pistol and repeatedly had the same malfunction.

So I called Wilson and they immediately emailed me a return shipping slip. I sent it back and both their gunsmith and gun tester shot my gun and couldn't duplicate the malfunction. The gunsmith did check the chamber and determined that it was a bit shallow and reamed it slightly. I got the gun back and it was better, but I've still had the same malfunction once or twice a magazine on two out of every three magazines fired.

Here's my question... Are Wilson's testers really big, strong guys? I am 65 years old. That sounds old, but I am pretty strong. I can do 30 push-ups and 8-10 pull-ups at this very second. Last weekend I won the "Fun Shoot", Steel Challenge pistol portion of a 2 gun match at my gun club. So, I am not a total weakling, and I am a proficient shooter. But I thought the same thing as previously mentioned. Maybe I'm not gripping the gun tightly enough. After my first malfunctions, I concentrated on gripping the crap out of the gun when firing. But I still had a couple of malfunctions. The gun does function 100% with ball, but won't run at 100% with Remington Golden Saber, a typically easy feeding round. Is it my grip?

So Mr. Palmer, please let me know how you grip the gun. Was the guy that bought your gun a big strong guy, or an old geeze? I've never had malfunctions from a weak grip, but I'm getting older and maybe that's the issue.
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  #7  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:29 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
Interesting that you posted this. I have a new Wilson ULC, 5" gun. I was getting similar failures of the slide to return to battery. The pistol would fire a round or two and then stop. It was easily cleared by pulling back on the slide and then chambering the round. Mine happened religiously on the 5th round in every magazine??? I called Wilson and the customer service rep told me that the magazine springs were very tight and to load up the magazines with 8 rounds and leave them for a few days. I did that, retested the pistol and repeatedly had the same malfunction.

So I called Wilson and they immediately emailed me a return shipping slip. I sent it back and both their gunsmith and gun tester shot my gun and couldn't duplicate the malfunction. The gunsmith did check the chamber and determined that it was a bit shallow and reamed it slightly. I got the gun back and it was better, but I've still had the same malfunction once or twice a magazine on two out of every three magazines fired.

Here's my question... Are Wilson's testers really big, strong guys? I am 65 years old. That sounds old, but I am pretty strong. I can do 30 push-ups and 8-10 pull-ups at this very second. Last weekend I won the "Fun Shoot", Steel Challenge pistol portion of a 2 gun match at my gun club. So, I am not a total weakling, and I am a proficient shooter. But I thought the same thing as previously mentioned. Maybe I'm not gripping the gun tightly enough. After my first malfunctions, I concentrated on gripping the crap out of the gun when firing. But I still had a couple of malfunctions. The gun does function 100% with ball, but won't run at 100% with Remington Golden Saber, a typically easy feeding round. Is it my grip?

So Mr. Palmer, please let me know how you grip the gun. Was the guy that bought your gun a big strong guy, or an old geeze? I've never had malfunctions from a weak grip, but I'm getting older and maybe that's the issue.
I had a similar issue for the first time with my original CQB three years ago, and was stumped. Wilson folks looked at it and could find nothing wrong and could not duplicate the problem. I have many years of experience, but as the one experiencing the problem, I was too close to the problem to diagnose it. They asked me "are you sure you aren't relaxing your grip just before the trigger press fires the gun"? Next range trip, I paid particular attention to that, and sure enough that is what I was doing. Since then, I have had no issues with that one or any of my others. Sometimes we just need a third party look at what we are doing, regardless of how long we have been shooting. Not saying that is the case in your situation, but mine was perplexing along the same lines, and that is what mine turned out to be.
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  #8  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:52 PM
longarm longarm is offline
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Hmm, yeah... I am thinking "bullet type and/or OAL" and "grip issues".
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:57 PM
flechero flechero is offline
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Originally Posted by mlpalmer View Post
He is using "full Power" reloads..and not low recoil. anyone have any ideas.
I'd ask him to run quality factory ammo (preferably whatever you ran in it) to rule out the reloads before going any further...
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  #10  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:21 AM
Dave Hoback Dave Hoback is offline
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When I worked as a Range Manager & instructor I’d say probably 75% of my people with habitual jamming problems, on their “New to Them“ guns, was limp noodle wristin’. Even had an FBI agent who had just purchased a new Sig P232, & had several jams every mag.(he wasn’t a student, just using the range I managed). Now, he had already sent it back to Sig for this very problem, and he had just picked it up. Finally he asked me to test it. I proceeded to empty a 7 round mag with no issues. He shook his head and tried again, at which point his 2nd shot was a jam. I could see he was limp wristing, and politely recommended a new grip. To which he responded, “DUDE! I’m an FBI agent! I know how to shoot!” Ohh boy was he getting hot. He loaded another and asked I try once more. And once more I unloaded 7 rounds without a hitch. Absolutely Livid, would be an understatement for his anger. He just packed his stuff & stormed out. I later saw his very Sig laying behind the counter in our showroom. He wanted it sent back to Sig for the “problem” again!

Ahhh.. I love that story.
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2020, 03:50 AM
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When my new LB was having repeated malfs, the first thing I did to rule out shooter error was have the range officer (and LB owner) shoot it. He got the same malfs I did, so I could move on to diagnosing an actual mechanical issue.

Suggest your buyer have an experienced shooter (preferrably someone comfortable with 1911s) fire the weapon to rule out operator error.
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2020, 05:47 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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The case looks like it is ahead of the extractor slightly.
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:16 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post
I had a similar issue for the first time with my original CQB three years ago, and was stumped. Wilson folks looked at it and could find nothing wrong and could not duplicate the problem. I have many years of experience, but as the one experiencing the problem, I was too close to the problem to diagnose it. They asked me "are you sure you aren't relaxing your grip just before the trigger press fires the gun"? Next range trip, I paid particular attention to that, and sure enough that is what I was doing. Since then, I have had no issues with that one or any of my others. Sometimes we just need a third party look at what we are doing, regardless of how long we have been shooting. Not saying that is the case in your situation, but mine was perplexing along the same lines, and that is what mine turned out to be.
Roger, you know me. You've shot with me. I mean it's possible that I'm causing the problem, but wouldn't it happen when shooting all of my 1911s, and all of my semi-autos? It's only happening with my new WC Ultra Light Carry 5". And it's only happening with hollow-points. And my malfunction is only happening about once per magazine. It did run fine/100% with Winchester 230 ball range ammo.

Could it be that I'm anticipating the greater recoil of the higher pressure ammo and limp wristing it? I don't know. I concentrated on gripping the gun as tightly as I was capable of.

I'm going to the range this morning to try again. I bought this gun to carry. And I want to carry it with some gnarly defensive hollow-points. I'll let you know. To the OP, sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but having the exact same problem seemed like you might benefit from my situation.

Finally, I just re-read Jolly's post. WC did recheck my extractor tension and geometry when I sent it back.

Finally, finally: to all WC owners and representatives, this problem is mine and mine alone. I love Wilson guns. I have many. I love Wilson as a company. They make the finest guns in the world and they have the best employees in the world with the best customer service in the world. I will solve this problem, and carry this gun until I die.

Last edited by bradsvette; 05-23-2020 at 07:29 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:21 AM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Rogers View Post
The case looks like it is ahead of the extractor slightly.
Joe
In this case (pun intended) I agree that the case rim looks to be ahead of the extractor; that would signal an inertia feed correct?
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  #15  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:29 AM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
Roger, you know me. You've shot with me. I mean it's possible that I'm causing the problem, but wouldn't it happen when shooting all of my 1911s, and all of my semi-autos? It's only happening with my new WC Ultra Light Carry 5". And it's only happening with hollow-points. And my malfunction is only happening about once per magazine. It did run fine/100% with Winchester 230 ball range ammo.

Could it be that I'm anticipating the greater recoil of the higher pressure ammo and limp wristing it? I don't know. I concentrated on gripping the gun as tightly as I was capable of.

I'm going to the range this morning to try again. I bought this gun to carry. And I want to carry it with some gnarly defensive hollow-points. I'll let you know. To the OP, sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but having the exact same problem seemed like you might benefit from my situation.

Finally, I just re-read Jolly's post. WC did recheck my extractor tension and geometry when I sent it back.
Quite possibly the geometry of the HP's you're using is a problem, hard to tell. Yes I have shot with you and you generally don't have a grip problem. I didn't either I thought at the time my issue was occurring. When I switched to my at the time new Professional, I had no malf's, and it was in a class at Bill's place so he took the CQB back to Wilson to be looked at. I did not realize that I was relaxing my grip just a little as the shot was breaking, it was not a limp wrist, it was a subconscious relaxing of my fingers just a little. You may not have the same problem, I would not know unless working the problem in person. Nice thing is, Wilson will take care of any mechanical issue with the pistol as you know.

I post this here to assist the OP as well, or any other person that can benefit from it. No matter how accomplished we are as shooters, some days we are just not on "our game" and make errors of manipulation or the fundamental mechanics of shooting.
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  #16  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:33 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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I'm going to concentrate very hard on my grip today. If I have a malfunction I'm going to find the best shooter in the club, with the strongest grip, and have him shoot it. I will report back. Thanks and best wishes to the OP.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:37 AM
SV 22 SV 22 is offline
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To add context to my last post, in my situation, I had put a 20# recoil spring in a rebuilt steel double stack .45 . I let a group of DoD colonels, including Marines, shoot it. I add this to indicate that they are men of above average physical condition. It choked for a couple shooters. I would take the gun and have no problem. After they left, it dawned on me. I had spent a year working on my grip. I relaxed a bit and duplicated the issue.
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Old 05-23-2020, 10:59 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
...It's only happening with my new WC Ultra Light Carry 5". And it's only happening with hollow-points...
There are 2 huge clues right there......

There's a reason that Wilson Combat stopped making the original Sentinel in .45, which was an extremely lightweight gun. Too few buyers knew how the shoot it. The gun has to be man handled. It will not function without a solid backstop. Not just the wrist. The entire limb. Wrist....elbow....shoulder. A stiff wrist isn't going to cure the problem if the elbow or shoulder is acting as a shock absorber.

Take a look at what your entire right (or left if you're a lefty) side is doing when shooting.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:34 AM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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Originally Posted by TRSOtto View Post
There are 2 huge clues right there......

There's a reason that Wilson Combat stopped making the original Sentinel in .45, which was an extremely lightweight gun. Too few buyers knew how the shoot it. The gun has to be man handled. It will not function without a solid backstop. Not just the wrist. The entire limb. Wrist....elbow....shoulder. A stiff wrist isn't going to cure the problem if the elbow or shoulder is acting as a shock absorber.

Take a look at what your entire right (or left if you're a lefty) side is doing when shooting.
You're exactly right. And to be honest, that's what I was suspecting also. The fact that it's a LW framed gun, it's naturally going to absorb some of the recoil pulse as opposed to an all steel gun that will just sit in the hand immobile. They're using the same springs in the LW too, which further requires an ultra firm grip in the LW gun. I kept that in mind as I got to the range.

I just got back from the range. I locked my fingers, my hand, my wrist, my elbow, and my shoulder, of both arms, and shot the gun. It didn't have an issue. i went through 5 fully loaded magazines of Remington Golden Saber, the 230 grain HP and the 185 grain +P HP: no malfunctions. I also shot a couple of magazines of Winchester High Energy HPs too and a couple of magazines of PMC HPs. No issues there in either case.

So, I guess I'll just have to remember to acquire a very firm grip on the gun if I ever have to use it to defend myself. I'll bet that as it breaks in, springs included, it will become a little more tolerant of a less than perfect grip too. I'm happy with my purchase. My plan is to train with a firmer grip, which has to be better in every instance I can think of, and carry the gun. I love it too much not to.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:23 PM
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Grandpas50AE Grandpas50AE is offline
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Otto made a good point, one that I often overlook because at full extension my elbow and shoulder are always locked. Perhaps the OP can make a similar suggestion to his buddy. Glad to hear of your success today Brad, the LW guns in full power .45 ACP loads do have to be solidly held.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:02 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
So, I guess I'll just have to remember to acquire a very firm grip on the gun if I ever have to use it to defend myself.
With all possible respect to everyone who has weighed in on this thread, I have a big problem with what Brad just posted.

If this pistol will not function 100% while shooting weak hand only, upside down, and covered in sweat, mud, and blood then it's a range toy.

My wife is a triathlete and competes regularly in this sport. She is not weak. She also competes with me in IDPA matches and handles a 1911 as well as anyone. But she lacks the body mass to provide as much resistance to the pistol as a 250lb linebacker. There have been some pistols that wouldn't run correctly for her but would for me due to this physical disparity.

My position is that every firearm to which she has access must run for her. To this end any semi-auto that won't run for her gets tweaked until it will. The tweak usually is no more than putting in a lighter recoil spring.

The idea that someone has to lift weights, toughen up, and eat nails in order to develop a stronger grip so they can get their 1911 to run is ignoring the actual cause of the malfunction. The cause is a mismatch between the shooter's physique & style and the way the pistol is set up. I advocate making the pistol match the shooter instead of the other way around.

Here's a video that's been around forever. When I range test a pistol I will hold it in my weak hand as loosely as I can sort of like the guy in the video and put rounds down range. I will not accept any failures to function and the slide must lock back every time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:30 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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Steve, conceptually I do agree with what you said, but I'm not totally wimpy. I'm 6'2'' and 185 lbs. Yes that is a bit on the slender side, but I'm scrappy. I can do several 12 ounce wrist curls and I get into some vigorous card games from time to time.

I agree that a spring change would probably help. I removed the shock buff after the last shooting session. And that shooting session had only one failure of the slide to go into battery. This session today had no failures of any type. The problem has diminished more and more each time that I've shot the gun, and today it didn't malfunction once. I will keep working with it until it's fool proof. Well, hold on. Then I'll never be able to shoot it (attempt at humor). It's in the safe, freshly clean and oiled, and a Springfield Mil-Spec customized by ACW is on my hip as I type this.

Steve, you're right. And I totally agree. But i'm confident that I can work with this pistol and get it to the point where it's totally reliable. Maybe not perfectly reliable with any grip, but reliable with a normal grip, one handed too.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:51 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
Steve, conceptually I do agree with what you said, but I'm not totally wimpy.
Let me assure you, it was not my intention to cast aspersions.

It's entirely possible that as the pistol loosens and smooths with use it will become less and less prone to this kind of malfunction.
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:54 PM
bradsvette bradsvette is online now
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Originally Posted by Steve in Allentown View Post
Let me assure you, it was not my intention to cast aspersions.

It's entirely possible that as the pistol loosens and smooths with use it will become less and less prone to this kind of malfunction.
I know. I was kidding. I totally agree with what you said earlier too.

Last edited by bradsvette; 05-23-2020 at 07:55 PM.
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:28 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Originally Posted by bradsvette View Post
I can do several 12 ounce wrist curls . . .
I did my share of those when I was young and dumb. Now that I'm old and dumb I have to really concentrate to do one.

Quote:
I removed the shock buff after the last shooting session.
S H O C K B U F F ???!!!

O M G !!!

Are you mad? You've broken the cardinal rule and invited shame and ridicule upon yourself.
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