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  #1  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:04 PM
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Why not to help your friends ;-)

Friday I innocently met a friend at the LGS to facilitate her decision to buy a CZ 457 Scout (she is a vertically-challenged female) (she had just recently bought a 10/22 Compact). OK, so far so good.

While there, as she was filling out the paperwork, I somehow found myself in front of the used rifle display. I uttered the fateful words: "Hey Dean, what's that one over there on the end? Yeah, that one."

About 30 minutes later I was walking out with this gun below. It is a Walther Sportmodell 5.4mm (22LR), reputed to be very accurate. It was a consignment gun, so I did some token pro forma haggling over the phone with the owner, and bought it for $475 + tax. Some research led me to decide that it is an early 1930s civilian model. Maybe 1932 give or take a year. The more common militarized versions were trainers for the Mauser K98.

Took it home, cleaned it up slightly; ran patches and oiled the bolt; checked the 1.0# trigger pull (!). It's definitely seen some field action, based on its cosmetic condition. Looks like it will clean up well though. Stock looks like walnut.

Stuck a Vortex 6-18 AO on it with high see-through tipoff rings (necessitated by the wide bolt throw arc). Can still access the open sights below the scope's objective bell. Should get a chance to shoot it tomorrow, with SK Magazine and SK Pistol Match Special.
Attached Thumbnails
Walther A.JPG   Walther B.JPG   Walther Vortex.JPG  
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"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-17-2020 at 06:24 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:37 PM
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Is it a single shot or a repeater? Hopefully the chamber is close to SAAMI specs and you won't find it is fussy about what ammo it will chamber.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:53 PM
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It's single shot. Tried a bunch of ammo brands and versions in the chamber without issue. Really excited to see it do its stuff tmw.
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2020, 08:45 PM
drail drail is offline
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That should be a very cool rifle.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:27 PM
Piexcel Piexcel is offline
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Nice score!
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:57 PM
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I love a good barn find (ergo, I cool old used gun at a LGS)
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:32 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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My Walther .22 single shot is on a different action and with no convenient grooves to hang a scope on but is as accurate as I can hold the open sights. Even more accurate back when I could see them better. I don't shoot it often because if I broke the firing pin or extractor, I would be S.O.L.

I bought it at a gun show many years ago and I had to choose between the Walther and a Remington 513S. I went with the exotic foreigner.
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:04 AM
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Thanks guys. I love cool old stuff like this, as do you. Walnut, wood, accuracy (I hope and expect ).

Off to the range in a couple of hours. Gotta help Nancy my range buddyette with her new 457 Scout and/or her new 10/22. Went back and forth about starting with RWS for initial shots, becuz German. It's not high-end stuff though. Think I'll just tack them onto the end of the day's shooting, time permitting.

Jim, yours must be even older if it has no scope grooves. Or is it a dedicated open-sights target rifle? I used to buy that kind of gun, but chafed at never being able to really see what it could do, so now I only buy older single-shots if they also have scope grooves.

Thinking about making this a project gun, i.e. refinish the stock and cold blue the barrel (two jobs I have never done before). Not concerned about resale value. However I also like it just as it is, patina, dents and all. I did drill a hole in the forend for a sling stud, for my bipod. I used a bunch of drill bits, increasing in 1/64" increments because I was mindful of cracking this old wood. Surprisingly it came with no sling swivels nor holes where they used to be. It would be nice to talk with someone who really knows the history of these guns' manufacture and all the little variants along the way, especially early on. This one is as basic as they come; no swivels, hooded front sight nor checkering.
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"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-18-2020 at 08:13 AM.
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2020, 02:05 PM
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OK, back from the range with some results. Shot at 25 yards with bipod, bag, 18X scope. The ammo shot was SK Magazine, SK Pistol Match Special, Lapua Midas+, Lapua Pistol King (4 groups) and Federal black box bulk, 40gr HV LRN (3 groups). All are 5-shot groups.

It shot the better ammo better, as you can see. The squiggly line denotes two different batches of Midas.

One thing that also came out of the testing is the trigger pull. It is long and kinda gritty; then predictably comes to the wall, then very slight pressure to let go. But after about 45 rounds I noticed that sometimes the wall would just be bypassed during the pull, and in those cases I often had a worse shot. I never knew if there was going to be a wall or not. I'm wondering if just shooting it knocked off some imperfections and changed its character a little.

I just looked at the muzzle with a lighted 4X magnifier, and the lead deposits from shooting the Federal are not evenly distributed.

So two things I am going to do after cleaning the barrel: polish the muzzle with my Mcarbo muzzle lapping kit, and do some polishing work on the trigger pieces. No need for a spring change with this one only at 1.0#. I'll also see if there is some simple way to reduce the takeup length.
Attached Thumbnails
Walther Tgt 1.JPG  
__________________
"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-18-2020 at 08:06 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2020, 04:31 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Wink

Gunshops are my kryptonite.


Then again, if you're on this forum, they're probably YOUR kryptonite, too.
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  #11  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:59 PM
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OK kids, did some work on the Walther. After cleaning the bore, I polished the muzzle with the kit I mentioned. Looks very uniform, kind of rounded hexagonal because of the rifling. Just takes a few seconds with a slow-speed drill to do this.

Next I pulled the bolt, took it outside and hosed it down with brake cleaner (green can, non-chlorinated). Lotsa gunk in there from 88 years of living. Presumably most of it from the Fatherland. Then hit it with some LCP, since I ran out of dry lube. Kept the FP channel dry towards the front.

Lastly I started work on the trigger group. Pic below of its layout. Very simple to pull off the receiver; one small screw and one pin to drive out, which went very easily with light taps.

My idea was to shim the front of the trigger with a washer, held on by aluminum tape, at the location the punch points to. No go; turns out it needs that last part of the return for it to reset. OK, fine.

Then I started polished everything that showed any wear on it, ending with 1500 grit, and lubed it afterward with Frog Lube, because minty. I use wet/dry sandpaper, starting with 400 grit usually, and working up to finer grits.

All back together. The gritty feeling I felt before is 100% gone. Pull to the wall is a butter-smooth 14.6 oz - 1lb 1.4 oz; checked four times. The break after hitting the wall is at most 1 oz, no kidding. Usually the break doesn't even register. Used my Wheeler digital trigger gauge. The wall is very distinct, due to how the trigger mechanism is designed. Just needed some smoothing out to get it running right.

Off to the range tmw, of course!
Attached Thumbnails
Walther TGb.JPG  
__________________
"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-18-2020 at 08:05 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2020, 03:53 PM
StinkeyPete StinkeyPete is offline
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You probably know this but stuff like RWS Match requires about 25 shots before it really settles down due to the "goopy" lube on it. Still, I like it.

Regarding your friend's 10/22 I did a step by step "accurization" of mine to get it to "solid for a stock gun" (not going to have the chamber recut or get a match barrel) and detailed it step by step over on Rimfire Central. Here are some of my takeaways-

For field use, a Simmons fixed 4x scope is bright and solid and cheap.

Bedding the action on a Raven Eye flanged pillar was essential to free floating the barrel and getting a reliable assembly that would return to POA after disassembly and not shift around day to day based on bumps, changes in humidity and temperature and the like. It took an evening to do the woodworking.

The Ruger upgraded trigger is worth the $50 if you are not going to a match gun. It doesn't affect accuracy at all, just makes it more pleasant.

Those are the major changes I made to my 10/22 as I also have a CZ 455 American that outclasses the Ruger at everything except it cost more than twice as much. (But has the .17 barrel that can be swapped on at some point)

Ammo... I found that the old standard of CCI SV was no longer the secret sauce or I had a bum batch... my CCI Blazer shot just as good as SV and Aquila (the standard stuff) outshot them all in the budget ammo category. Moving up to match ammo wasn't worth the expense in the 10/22 so I save that for the CZ. I've never found anything that shot Federal well, so I swore off it years ago. I still have a few rounds left and STILL have not found anything that likes it. Maybe a bad batch?

That Walther is something special. Who's in such a big hurry that they need to shoot fast???

Last edited by StinkeyPete; 05-19-2020 at 03:55 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2020, 05:40 PM
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Pete, she won't let me make any mods to the gun yet. I am pushing her to get the bolt CPC'd, and want to sell/trade her TG for my Brimstone Tier 2 TG. I would use her stock trigger along with a Kidd drop-in kit, which I am very curious about. I doubt she cares about such niceties as free-floating, pressure pads, tape bedding etc.

Shot the Walther today, but I had a problem. I lost the metric square nut that fits into the barrel band, so essentially I shot it "free-floated" today. Out of 19 groups I got three with various types of Eley which were between .12" - .16". Everything else was pretty random.

So today I went to Ace Hardware and got some replacement parts: 1/4-20 square nut and cap screw, and a fiber washer to distribute the pressure more from the screw. The old metric screw fit into a hole in the stock, but this one sits on top; so I added the washer so as to not indent the stock. The cap screw with hex head is black, and I painted the fiber washer black with a Sharpie, so it all fits in with the rest of the fasteners. With this fixed, it's back to the range tmw.

Today I noticed that this Ace has gunsmithing screws! A set of five drawers set well above eye level and around the corner from the fastener aisle, so I never noticed it before. I bought a flat steel plate for $2 that lets you check the size/thread pitch of whatever gun screw you have.
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"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-20-2020 at 07:52 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:57 PM
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Created a pillar for the barrel band screw. I used a nylon bushing and a fiber washer. The washer was already a perfect fit inside the stock, which is what gave me the idea. I had to shorten the bushing about 1/8" with my Dremel and diamond cutoff wheel. The hole through the stock had to be drilled out to 5/16", the outside diameter of the bushing shaft. The actual work took maybe a couple of minutes. A very snug fit.

You can see the parts used below (pic 1). I just used the washer that I had already painted black with my Sharpie. These two show the fit inside the stock, and about how much I had to trim off the bushing. The screw is a 1/4-20 hex head cap screw, and takes the same hex as a 10/22 takedown screw, 5/32 IIRC.

The 1/4-20 square nut is taped in with aluminum tape, so I don't lose this one! I also put some skateboard/grip tape on two sides of the nut to make a snugger fit in there, and put a piece on the barrel to limit the nut's movement back away from the screw.

Pic 2 is how it looks from the outside. Blends in nicely with the two receiver screws; doesn't stick out as a mod. This pic is slightly overexposed; the wood is a bit darker than this.
Attached Thumbnails
Walther barrel bushing.JPG   Walther barrel screw.JPG  
__________________
"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-20-2020 at 07:56 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkeyPete View Post
Ammo... I found that the old standard of CCI SV was no longer the secret sauce or I had a bum batch... my CCI Blazer shot just as good as SV and Aquila (the standard stuff) outshot them all in the budget ammo category. Moving up to match ammo wasn't worth the expense in the 10/22 so I save that for the CZ. I've never found anything that shot Federal well, so I swore off it years ago. I still have a few rounds left and STILL have not found anything that likes it. Maybe a bad batch?
I hate to say it, but CCI ammo ain't what it used to be ever since Federal took over. Mediocre accuracy is just the least of its problems.

__________________
Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:40 PM
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Shot it again today after all the monkeying around with it yesterday. The usual setup: 25 yards, bipod, bag, 18X, 5-shot groups. The ammo was Eley Wolf Match Extra, Eley Edge, Eley Action, SK Magazine, SK Pistol Match Special, and Fiocchi HV CPHP. Didn't clean it, just picked up with the Wolf, which was the last thing shot yesterday.

Target below. I am getting a picture of how this gun shoots. Overall I would say it is not in the very top tier of my 22LR rifles, but pretty decent. I only consider groups interesting if they are under .20" @ 25 yards, i.e. .8 MOA. There are not enough of them to suit me, out of approx 66 groups shot. Here are its better groups so far. All shot at 25 yards.

.09".....Lapua Midas+
.11".....Eley Wolf Match Extra
.12".....Eley Action
.13".....Eley Bench Rest Precision
.14".....Eley Match Pistol
.16".....Eley Wolf ME
.17".....Lapua Pistol King

There are plenty of good 4-shot holes, and for any practical varmint/pest control purpose this is plenty good enough. And I love the trigger! Long smooth takeup, distinct wall, very light break, no overtravel to speak of.

Tmw I will shoot it with bulk ammo of various types, just to see. I think HV will tend to do better in this gun than many others, due to the long barrel giving the faster rounds more time to spin.
Attached Thumbnails
Walther Tgt 2.JPG  
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"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-20-2020 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:13 PM
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With a Weaver 29S Special scope mounted. Horizontal adjustment on the left to clear the bolt handle. It's 4X I believe. Steel-tube El Paso, TX scope made from 1937 - 47. Gonna try this scope out tmw with the cheaper ammo. The patina matches nicely. Cannot put the safety on unless I mount the scope inconveniently far forward. Eye relief is good here.

Or I could go this route. I'd swap in higher rings to clear the ocular.

EDIT: The 29S is 3X.
Attached Thumbnails
Weaver 29S.JPG  
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"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." -- Elizabeth Warren
"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Last edited by TominMO; 05-21-2020 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TominMO View Post
Target below. I am getting a picture of how this gun shoots. Overall I would say it is not in the very top tier of my 22LR rifles, but pretty decent. I only consider groups interesting if they are under .20" @ 25 yards, i.e. .8 MOA. There are not enough of them to suit me, out of approx 66 groups shot. Here are its better groups so far. All shot at 25 yards.

.09".....Lapua Midas+
.11".....Eley Wolf Match Extra
.12".....Eley Action
.13".....Eley Bench Rest Precision
.14".....Eley Match Pistol
.16".....Eley Wolf ME
.17".....Lapua Pistol King
Are you going to shoot the rifle out to 100 yards to see the groupings?
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:00 AM
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Are you going to shoot the rifle out to 100 yards to see the groupings?
Planning on going to a friends' friend's farm at some point. It's weather-dependent mostly, but also involves some scheduling for the three of us. I will take whichever ammo appears to shoot the best, and also take some SK Long Range. I'll probably also bring along a couple of other guns, such as my 10/22 Target and one of the CZs.
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"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:38 PM
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Found out that the Weaver 29S is 3X.

Went to the range today with a bunch of HV ammo, mostly bulk/low-end, just to see how it shoots with the more common and cheaper stuff. Shot at 24 yards, not 25, because better lighting. More necessary with such low magnification. Bipod, bag, 3X, 10-shot groups. Zero ignition or extraction problems with anything.

In this order, pics 1 through 3:
CCI Blazer 38gr LRN
CCI Mini Mag 36gr CPHP
CCI Mini Mag 40gr CPRN
American Eagle 38gr CPHP

Federal Champion 36gr CPHP
Federal black box 38gr CPHP
Remington Golden Bullet 40gr plated LRN

Browning BPR 40gr CPHP
Federal Target & Range 36gr CPHP
Federal Game Shock 38gr CPHP
Winchester Super X 40 gr CPRN

I'm gonna re-shoot this with my 18X scope, since there is a lot of variation, partially resulting from low magnification. Federal Champion was by far the worst, which didn't surprise me. The Browning is hypervelocity, and felt more like shooting 22WMR compared to the rest. Think I'll do a test with the hypers: Aguila, Velocitor, Stinger, and Browning.
Attached Thumbnails
Cheap stuff 1.JPG   Cheap stuff 2.JPG   Cheap stuff 3.JPG  
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"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
All lives matter! :-) Take a knee only to God
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:24 PM
Piexcel Piexcel is offline
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Originally Posted by TominMO View Post
I'm gonna re-shoot this with my 18X scope, since there is a lot of variation, partially resulting from low magnification. Federal Champion was by far the worst, which didn't surprise me. The Browning is hypervelocity, and felt more like shooting 22WMR compared to the rest. Think I'll do a test with the hypers: Aguila, Velocitor, Stinger, and Browning.
The results will be interesting to see at 18X.

An aside. I went through southeastern Arizona back in January and visited Fort Bowie National Historic Site (and also Chiricahua National Monument). Ft. Bowie is one of the few sites in the US National Park system that you have to hike 1.5 miles one way to get to the visitor's center. Cochise was held prisoner in the vicinity before he made his escape by cutting the tent. There is signage along the hiking route that highlights this escape. The hike itself is not difficult, and just walking through the area took me back in time to the American Indian War days.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:32 PM
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Cool story, Piexcel.

Pic 1
Switching back to the 18X scope, I didn't want to use the high vertically-split rings. Makes the scope look like it's on stilts, and seems a little unstable. So I dug around and found this dovetail-to-pic rail adapter, and used a set of low rings. It's now mounted about 3/8" lower, so I had to position it behind the rear iron sight. No problem for the bolt handle, but the safety can't be engaged. Looks more planted this way, and gives me more leeway in vertical sight adjustment. Just holding the rifle in my hands, the eye relief puts me pretty vertical, but sitting at the shooting bench it should be just about perfect. I relieved the middle part with my bench grinder so as to more easily feed the round in, and sanded down any burrs. Colored the bare aluminum with a Sharpie.

Pic 2
What I will be shooting tmw, plus some others. Those two types of Quik-Shok appear to be previous versions of Stinger. All three are 32gr with the longer case. The upper box is made by Blount Inc in Lewiston ID. They made it for Magnum Performance Ballistics in Macon GA, which was apparently bought out by CCI.
Attached Thumbnails
Pic rail adapter.JPG   The hypers.JPG  
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Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:48 PM
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Request that a moderator please change the title of this thread to "My Walther Sportmodell". TIA.
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Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:58 PM
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Shot some hypervelocity and other stuff today. At 25 yards, 18X, bipod and bag. All are 10-shot groups.

Row 1: Aguila hypervelocity, CCI Velocitor, Browning BPR
Row 2: American Eagle 38gr HV CPHP, Remington Golden Bullet, Winchester Super X, Remington Thunderbolt, Federal Auto Match

First thing I tried was shooting the Stinger. Would not chamber, so on to the next ammo.

I swear I had my eyes open while shooting the Aguila! I shot a second group just to confirm it wasn't needing a barrel seasoning. Had I been able to shoot the Stinger, past experience tells me it would have done better. Velocitor did great; that's 7 rounds in a .07" (CTC) hole. The Browning is about the same speed as Velocitor, but just hunter-grade stuff.

After shooting the first row, I zeroed for the HV rounds to be shot in the second row. AE did very nicely for $4/50. Golden Bullet was like the Browning. The last three did well, just a couple of flyers.

So this gun is not snobbish about cheaper ammo. I'll probably take Auto Match with me when I go to shoot outdoors at 50 and hopefully 100.
Attached Thumbnails
Cheap stuff 18X.JPG  
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"An armed society is a polite society." -- R. Heinlein
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Equal opportunity, not equal outcome.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:15 PM
Piexcel Piexcel is offline
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Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
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Interesting results. Maybe not much surprise with the CCI stuff. Your results with Aguila look just like mine shooting 25 yards through a Ruger Precision Rimfire.
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