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  #1  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:09 PM
rbthree rbthree is offline
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Wiley Clapp Govt vs Competition 1911?

Hi all,

I am trying to decide between the Colt Competition (45 ACP, blued finish) and the Colt Wiley Clapp Government model (Blued finish as well). The competition appears to have everything I want other than the checkered front strap. I would change grips/sights on either gun so that makes no difference to me. Any insights on if the clapp is worth the extra few hundred bucks? The one thing I do like about the clapp as well is the polished flats, as I like the shiny blued finish. Competition appears matte to me (can’t tell for sure). Wish colt made a similar gun to these in a polished blue.

I hear the competition is a production gun, but that the Clapp is out of the custom shop. Can anyone verify that or tell me if it makes a big difference? Gun will be used for range, possibility of carrying it in the future once I lose some weight.

Also, if any of you out there own either model, I would love to hear about your experiences.

Thanks all
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:19 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbthree View Post
Hi all,

I am trying to decide between the Colt Competition (45 ACP, blued finish) and the Colt Wiley Clapp Government model (Blued finish as well). The competition appears to have everything I want other than the checkered front strap. I would change grips/sights on either gun so that makes no difference to me. Any insights on if the clapp is worth the extra few hundred bucks? The one thing I do like about the clapp as well is the polished flats, as I like the shiny blued finish. Competition appears matte to me (canít tell for sure). Wish colt made a similar gun to these in a polished blue.

I hear the competition is a production gun, but that the Clapp is out of the custom shop. Can anyone verify that or tell me if it makes a big difference? Gun will be used for range, possibility of carrying it in the future once I lose some weight.

Also, if any of you out there own either model, I would love to hear about your experiences.

Thanks all
I have both the Competition and the Clapp.

As far as I can tell the bluing is the same. The Competition Series 80 was the one with the matte blued finish throughout the entire pistol. M

The Wiley Clapp also has steel checkered main spring housing to go with the checkered front strap. If the checkering isnít a feature that you want then go with the Competition and save a few hundred bucks.

And no, the Clapp isnít a Colt custom shop gun. It used to come in the pretty blue cardboard box but thatís about it. The other Clapps come in the plastic Colt box.
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:23 PM
mlin mlin is online now
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Wiley Clapp is also production line pistol. IMHO, Wiley Clapp is worth a couple of hundreds more because of front strap checkering done by Pete Single. Competition comes with adjustable Novak rear sight.
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:24 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is online now
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Looking at Colt site, the flats on the frame don’t look polished (?).

I have the Competition. Whichever one you order, inspect well on delivery. Mine came with a mushy thumb safety and a very rough unpolished chamber. I guess that’s what $900 gets you these days. It shoots fine. Trigger is good. The fiberoptic front sight looks cheesy, but target acquisition is very positive, I’m growing to like it. And the front strap checkering is worth the extra MSRP in my mind.
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:38 PM
rbthree rbthree is offline
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Thanks for the advice. I hear differing opinions about the quality of Colt’s bluing. Any thoughts on that? I’ve never had a blued pistol before, is maintenance really a pain?

I would keep in a nice 3 handgun case with one of those silica moisture control packs in it. Would that help prevent any potential rust? I clean my guns after each trip to the range.
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:38 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=945218

Looks like polished slide to me.

I’ve seen a few Series 70 Competitions in blued and they all look like the one in the link above.

Of course Colt could have changed it back to all matte too, but I doubt it. One of the major complaints about the carbon steel Series 80 Competition is that the bluing was entirely matte.

There was a distributor special (maybe Lew Horton?) they had the blued Series 80 Competition done in matte on the rounds and polished on the flats.
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:54 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is online now
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=945218

Looks like polished slide to me.

I’ve seen a few Series 70 Competitions in blued and they all look like the one in the link above.
.
Yes, mine Competition does. The pic on Colt site for the Whiley Clap makes it look like the Flats on the Frame are matte. Then again that could just be poor photo. Colt is not big on loading multiple pix for their guns..

No problem with blueing. It will rub off if you holster it enough, for me no big deal, apply a thin layer of lubricant on the blued gun and it will keep rust off. I live in pretty humid South East PA, keep my blued guns oiled, they don’t rust. Check under the grips every now and again.
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:55 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Originally Posted by rbthree View Post
Thanks for the advice. I hear differing opinions about the quality of Coltís bluing. Any thoughts on that? Iíve never had a blued pistol before, is maintenance really a pain?

I would keep in a nice 3 handgun case with one of those silica moisture control packs in it. Would that help prevent any potential rust? I clean my guns after each trip to the range.
As of the last perhaps 5-years, Colt stopped polishing the flats on the pistols with a fine grit. Ergo the surfaces donít shine as much. Otherwise the chemicals are the same. Apply a thin coat of oil on the gun and itíll be just fine.

The silica desiccant is okay but unless you change them out often, theyíd get saturated and will do nothing. Itís better to use what is called a Vapor Phase Corrosion Inhibitor emitter (aka VPCI or VCI). These things have corrosion resistant chemicals that will permeate the enclosure and coat the metal surfaces with the frou frou dust. They do work quite well. However these emitters arenít foolproof either because of you keep opening the container, eventually the emitter would run out of the magic dust.

Two things about VPCI: have to use the correct size emitter to match the volume of the container, and replace the darn thing if you keep opening the container. Otherwise the anti-corrosion chemical can last between two and three years before needing replacement.

Two big manufacturers of this VPCI: Zerust and Cortec. I favor Cortec because they have been doing the VCI business the longest and everybody in the world uses its many products. Zerust is okay too.

For the preppers among us, these companies have VPCI plastic bags or plastic wraps for those long burial cache situations if you donít want the gubment to confiscate your guns.


https://www.zerust.com/products/vci-...ule-diffusers/

https://www.cortecvci.com/vpci-emitters/
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2020, 03:59 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Originally Posted by 15roundsof9 View Post
Yes, mine Competition does. The pic on Colt site for the Whiley Clap makes it look like the Flats on the Frame are matte. Then again that could just be poor photo. Colt is not big on loading multiple pix for their guns..

.
Colt still uses the photo of the blued Series 80 Competition.



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  #10  
Old 07-27-2020, 04:21 PM
rooney rooney is online now
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On the WC Government Model I had, the frame was completely matte, no polished flats on the frame, so I think the Colt website pic is accurate.
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2020, 05:04 PM
dcar335i dcar335i is offline
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Originally Posted by rbthree View Post
Thanks for the advice. I hear differing opinions about the quality of Coltís bluing. Any thoughts on that? Iíve never had a blued pistol before, is maintenance really a pain?

I would keep in a nice 3 handgun case with one of those silica moisture control packs in it. Would that help prevent any potential rust? I clean my guns after each trip to the range.
I purchased an early run of the series 80 with a matte blued finish and it is by far the worst finish on any gun I own. If you go this route, get your eyes on it and make sure you are satisfied. Mine also has a "mushy" safety. It does hiccup from time to time (FTF's). Needless to say, I would not buy again. The finish is wearing off so I am stuck with it.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2020, 05:06 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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My Clapp Goverment model bought in either 2014 or 2015.

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  #13  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:43 AM
Jakashh Jakashh is offline
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My WC I bought from gunbroker this year is an anomaly. It has polished flats on the frame, and came with a non lowered/flared ejection port, which I sent back to colt to get replaced with the correct slide.

Before and after pics




And after I got the slide repaired/replaced by colt.

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  #14  
Old 07-31-2020, 12:09 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jakashh View Post
My WC I bought from gunbroker this year is an anomaly. It has polished flats on the frame, and came with a non lowered/flared ejection port, which I sent back to colt to get replaced with the correct slide.

Before and after pics




And after I got the slide repaired/replaced by colt.

Hehe. Thanks for the photographic proof.

Colt does let something slip through the crack now and then.

Honestly, I didnít even notice the flats on my Wiley Clapp Government frame was matte finished.

I think that in your case, I would have kept everything original and bought another Wiley Clapp. Your original with all the factory anomalies might be worth some bucks to a hard core Colt collector, especially with that funky slide.
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  #15  
Old 07-31-2020, 08:06 PM
Jakashh Jakashh is offline
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Hehe. Thanks for the photographic proof.

Colt does let something slip through the crack now and then.

Honestly, I didnít even notice the flats on my Wiley Clapp Government frame was matte finished.

I think that in your case, I would have kept everything original and bought another Wiley Clapp. Your original with all the factory anomalies might be worth some bucks to a hard core Colt collector, especially with that funky slide.

I think matte black flats on the frame is the normal spec for that gun. Ive only seen one picture of another WC with a high ejection port, and found one other case of someone who had the same issue on this forum, which colt promptly denied a warranty repair for.

I did think there was a chance it may be worth more to a collector but I bought the gun to shoot and it kept spitting brass at my face so I figured Iíd get it taken care of rather than try to find someone willing to buy one just for the defects lol.
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  #16  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:10 PM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jakashh View Post
I think matte black flats on the frame is the normal spec for that gun. Ive only seen one picture of another WC with a high ejection port, and found one other case of someone who had the same issue on this forum, which colt promptly denied a warranty repair for.

I did think there was a chance it may be worth more to a collector but I bought the gun to shoot and it kept spitting brass at my face so I figured Iíd get it taken care of rather than try to find someone willing to buy one just for the defects lol.
I have two Clapp Goverment models and they both have the 100% matte frames.

I bought them both within six months of each other back in late 2014 and mid-2015. They both cane with the blue cardboard boxes. I wonder if the current Clapp Government still comes with the pretty blue box?

One thing for sure, the rest of the Clapp models come in the typical plastic boxes.
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  #17  
Old 08-01-2020, 12:46 AM
Jakashh Jakashh is offline
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
I have two Clapp Goverment models and they both have the 100% matte frames.

I bought them both within six months of each other back in late 2014 and mid-2015. They both cane with the blue cardboard boxes. I wonder if the current Clapp Government still comes with the pretty blue box?

One thing for sure, the rest of the Clapp models come in the typical plastic boxes.

Nice, two is better than one for sure lol. Kinda wish I had the matte frame at times. Unfortunately mine came with the basic blue plastic carry case and one mag rather than the classy looking blue cardboard box.

The gun is new according to the listing I bought it from on GB, but Iím not sure when it was made. I only bought it about 4 or 5 months ago. They seem to be getting hard to find in stock anywhere online, even on gunbroker.
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2020, 01:04 AM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jakashh View Post
Nice, two is better than one for sure lol. Kinda wish I had the matte frame at times. Unfortunately mine came with the basic blue plastic carry case and one mag rather than the classy looking blue cardboard box.

The gun is new according to the listing I bought it from on GB, but Iím not sure when it was made. I only bought it about 4 or 5 months ago. They seem to be getting hard to find in stock anywhere online, even on gunbroker.
After I bought the second Clapp Goverment Model, I immediately got the Lightweight Commander and the CCO. To my surprise, they came in plastic boxes. However back in 2015/2016, the Government still cane with the blue cardboard box.

I bought the Clapp SS Commander in November 2018 and of course it came in plastic box and one mag. Sometimes in late 2018 was when Colt cheaped out and started shipping pistols with one mag.
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  #19  
Old 08-01-2020, 03:53 AM
Jakashh Jakashh is offline
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Nice, youíve got the whole lineup just about. I really want the 9mm lightweight commander. I like that they put the 9 on the grip as a reference to the Mauser C96 ďRed 9Ē.
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  #20  
Old 08-01-2020, 09:22 AM
fnfalman fnfalman is offline
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Nice, youíve got the whole lineup just about. I really want the 9mm lightweight commander. I like that they put the 9 on the grip as a reference to the Mauser C96 ďRed 9Ē.
I thought about getting the Clapp Lightweight Commander 9 but not interested enough to buy one. The owner of Milt Sparks Leathers bought one and he was letting me checking it out. Itís pretty much the Clapp LwtCdr but chambered in 9mm and with the funky Red 9 style grip.

The thumb safety was so badly fitted that it was nearly unmovable. At that time I had the Colt Talo LwtCdr .38 Super that had the extended Colt safety. We swapped the thumb safeties do that he got the extended Colt lever and I got the GI lever.
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  #21  
Old 08-01-2020, 09:45 AM
EL Perdido EL Perdido is online now
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The Pete Single checkering makes it a no brainer for me, I have a 2013 Wiley Clapp Government.
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  #22  
Old 08-01-2020, 05:42 PM
Jakashh Jakashh is offline
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Wiley Clapp Govt vs Competition 1911?

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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
I thought about getting the Clapp Lightweight Commander 9 but not interested enough to buy one. The owner of Milt Sparks Leathers bought one and he was letting me checking it out. Itís pretty much the Clapp LwtCdr but chambered in 9mm and with the funky Red 9 style grip.

The thumb safety was so badly fitted that it was nearly unmovable. At that time I had the Colt Talo LwtCdr .38 Super that had the extended Colt safety. We swapped the thumb safeties do that he got the extended Colt lever and I got the GI lever.

Yeah the thumb safety was pretty bad. I had colt address that too when I sent it back, and it came back easier to engage but still mushy. I donít mind it now as itís infinitely better than it was before.

Last edited by Jakashh; 08-01-2020 at 11:45 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2020, 06:20 PM
15roundsof9 15roundsof9 is online now
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Originally Posted by Jakashh View Post
Yeah the thumb safety is pretty bad. I had colt address that too when I sent it back, and it came back easier to engage but still mushy. I don’t mind it now as it’s infinitely better than it was before.
Wow, so you sent out a gun with a clear issue and it came back half way done?

Well, I’m glad I didn’t go through the torture of shipping my Colt to replace a mushy safety with a less mushy one. This is infuriating, tho on a small scale, but still. A 100 year old design should be easy enough to execute with a proper fit. If most 1911s can have a crisp, defined disengagement on the TS, why in heavens name can’t Colt do the same.
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  #24  
Old 08-02-2020, 07:27 PM
MEH92 MEH92 is offline
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The checkering was a huge selling point for me. Also, the front strap and trigger guard are high-cut on the WCGM.
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