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  #26  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:12 PM
CRT2 CRT2 is offline
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Is or can your vehicle be up-armored? Do you have access to or are you permitted to have explosive devices (flash/bang)? Have to think outside the box.
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2017, 06:59 PM
HKFanNC HKFanNC is online now
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Question for Military, law enforcement and other similar field

And vary your route as much as possible. You need to be looking into making yourself as hard a target as possible or too costly for them to try to take.

Good Luck!!


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  #28  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:27 AM
RogueTS1 RogueTS1 is offline
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Sounds to me like you run a plantation of some sorts. If you can afford a driver then you should be able to afford to armor up your vehicle. I say if the situation is as bad as you say in your country then screw the law that says you can only carry a pistol and carry what you need. The uzi sounds like a pretty good start. I would recommend getting one, or something more modern like an MP-5 or a Kriss Vector, for everybody in the vehicle. These should be short and handy enough in close quarters should the need arise.

I would do as stated above and not have too much of a pattern. Take a different way to town each time. Maybe determined just before leaving the house by a random roll of a die/dice. Drive with a caravan of other plantation owners (army of armored vehicles rolling down the road) driven by drivers whom have no qualms with running down any drug addict bandits that get in the way. Do not stop the vehicles for any reason. Anybody that does not get out of the way of an armed protection convoy has nothing but bad intentions if trying to get you to stop. I have to believe the police will understand after the fact.

Handguns vs rifles is not a pleasant idea; you are starting at a very real disadvantage; but being that these bandits are drug addicts, I would surmise they are not spending their time training with said rifles and are much more intent on getting high in their free time. If this be the case, my experience is then that your people with subguns at close range and some training should be able to put the fear of God into them. Remember, violence and force of action rules the day. If these bandits want to play hard ball then teach them what playing hardball is. You have money and resources; use them to your advantage and teach these thugs that their time would be better spent in a different area than you and your fellow plantation owners.
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Last edited by RogueTS1; 01-06-2017 at 10:44 AM.
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  #29  
Old 01-06-2017, 11:35 AM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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Without knowing, I would guess he's an employee of a company based in the US or Europe. Not a ranch owner. The driver being hired & paid by said company.

But again, that's just a guess.
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  #30  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:39 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Without knowing, I would guess he's an employee of a company based in the US or Europe. Not a ranch owner. The driver being hired & paid by said company.

But again, that's just a guess.
Who knows? But there's a huge difference between being able to hire a $5k a year driver in a 3rd world country and dropping $100k+ on an armored vehicle... the cost of which doesn't vary much based on markets or location.

Perhaps NOT using a driver would reduce risk and profile... create a perception of not being a worthwhile kidnap/ransom target?
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  #31  
Old 01-06-2017, 01:09 PM
RogueTS1 RogueTS1 is offline
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True about buying an up armored vehicle from say GM or something but he states he is dealing with drug addict bandits not trained combatants; so being in the Philippines I would hazard to say there are some shade tree type of mechanics that could put something together that would do the job for a very reasonable price. My life, even my ear is worth that if I am going to stay.

I, of course, am making more than a few assumptions about the situation here.
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  #32  
Old 01-06-2017, 01:45 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueTS1 View Post
True about buying an up armored vehicle from say GM or something but he states he is dealing with drug addict bandits not trained combatants; so being in the Philippines I would hazard to say there are some shade tree type of mechanics that could put something together that would do the job for a very reasonable price. My life, even my ear is worth that if I am going to stay.

I, of course, am making more than a few assumptions about the situation here.
There's a lot of engieneering that goes into trying to armor a vehicle; its not as simple as welding some plates on...

Ballistic glass costs what it costs, regardless of where in the world you are. Same with armor plate and ballistic fiber... its not discounted because its in the 3rd world. Swapping an engine, transmission, and building a cooling system and suspension to handle the weight may be less expensive in a 3rd world country- and the results are a roll of the dice.

I'm sure you could have someone rig up some hillbilly armor, but it would be just that. It may or may not work, it would probably destroy the vehicle, and it likely wouldn't be very discreet.
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  #33  
Old 01-07-2017, 12:19 PM
RogueTS1 RogueTS1 is offline
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I cannot comment on the cost of armored glass in a third world country but if it is anything like most things in this world it costs vastly more in the US and some other places and sells for peanuts in lesser places. That being, or not being the case; the so called "Hillbilly" engineering you speak of can be nothing less than professional. I know many of your so called "Hillbilly Tinkerers" that build professional race cars/motorcycles in their garages at home (note old time Nascar racers.) Many of today's high performance pieces as well as military grade products were developed in one of these "Hillbilly's" workshops. I know some that can be handed a race bred braking system that will not work for an application and in two days while at their day job, bring home a totally new machined system that will drop right in and work that looks like it just came out of a Ford/GM delivery box.

We are not talking about some rednecks on Facebook. My point is you cannot overlook the abilities of these so called "Hillbillies" that just may be able to provide something to help this guy out. Based upon your username I have to believe you know a few of these guys yourself. You know, they can build/engineer anything.............

Would it work? Well I suspect the testing involved would figure that out. These guys know about testing their products.

Would it destroy the vehicle? I also suspect that these guys would test that too. These guys know about testing their products.

As to discretion, if he is worried about losing his ear or his life who cares. I am saying he/they should not be discreet but should be shouting from the roof tops, "Don't mess with us!"

Once again I am assuming this man lives here and has at least some money and resources. If he is some kind of contractor working for a foreign business that will not provide proper resources and security my advice is pretty much worthless. I am offering that a little bit of invested time, money and expertise could go a long way towards negating the threat of some road side bandits whom are untrained and undisciplined.

"Country" type people aka Southerners................... can and will find a way to get things done for themselves. They do not need to rely on the Government and their methods are most often anything but crude and almost always very effective. Where there is a need and will, there is a way.
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Last edited by RogueTS1; 01-07-2017 at 12:29 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-07-2017, 01:00 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Rouge, ballistic materials are a very specialty product, made by a relative handful of manufacturers in the world. Its not like an AK that goes for $800 in the US and can be had for $50 in Mogudishu. Pricing is based on one global market for the materials, and not subject to the lessor economies of the 3rd world.

I don't underestimate the ingenuity and skill of relatively primitive tinkerers, mechanics, and craftsmen- I've seen it first hand. They can make things work, they're generally not efficient or pretty about it.

What I am saying is that they're NOT going to strip a car to the frame, armor it to the levels of quality of a specialty shop, and re assemble it so that it appears factory fresh- for a fraction of the cost of such a specialty vehicle. Anything they build would be of both questionable ballistic quality, the finished product would be fairly crude, and it wouldn't be 'cheap'...
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  #35  
Old 01-07-2017, 07:36 PM
RogueTS1 RogueTS1 is offline
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I agree what I am speaking of would not look factory fresh. I would say it definitely would not "have to" be crude(depending of course on your definition.) Those I speak of are not primitive and would be able to make a quality product that would get the job done, in this specific case, for a whole lot less than a specialty shop(not talking the glass here.)

I do not have an answer for the glass but the armor to stop some rifle rounds from some primitive road side bandits would not have to be much. Target style steel plate would get the job done. Remember we are not talking of stopping the vehicles here. Just something to stand up to fire as they run them down in the road.

I mostly agree with you; as I stated in the last post I am assuming this man has property and hence some money and resources available to him. I may be wrong and in such a case my advice would be worthless. If he does though, it would not take a military budget nor said equipment to put a hurt on these so called bandits. Simply a proper investment of time, connections, energy and a limited supply of money.
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  #36  
Old 01-08-2017, 04:22 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Stopping kidnaps and ransoms by bandits.....

Bandits are like cockroaches.....you don't need to avoid them, you need to eradicate every one of them......

You don't want to wait for them to attack you.....they will have the element of surprise.....

You don't want to be stuck in a vehicle trying to exit.....they will have surrounded you......

You don't want to be forced to defend yourself with only two people in the vehicle with pistol caliber cartridges, even from an UZI!

The best approach, if possible, is to track them down and either kill them or bring them to justices.......

You know what the problem is.....you need to take offensive steps to eliminate the problem......not wait to be kidnapped and possibly killed trying to defend yourself....!
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  #37  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:32 AM
4evrnbljns 4evrnbljns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
If I had a business and my life was always at risk from bandits, I would sell the business and move.....

However, if you choose to stay, don't wait for the bandits, take the offensive.
If you have friends, local law enforcement, or enough money to hire mercenaries.....track down the bandits and kill them.....it seems like people in the Philippines would be better off...!

If you don't have enough money to eradicate the bandits, or if the local law enforcement is corrupt or ineffective.....sell the business and move.....you can always start another business.....but once you are dead, you can't start another life....!
^THIS!! Never cower & wait. Threat is never going away if they are emboldened by constant success. Take the fight to them. Organize and attack,make them the ones covering their six. Authorities and government officials that would arrest you for having a long gun to protect yourself are not friendly,dispose of them also. You will become a state enemy so you need a way to spread your word to the people. Easy for me to direct from safety but as God is my witness I would do this rather than live in fear of evil. Send you loved ones to safety,you will lose any means to support yourself,be willing to suffer and die standing on your feet,fighting. Once you accept that you may or will die all fear will leave and you will fight like you are invinceable. Trust me,the elephant is life changing and God loves righteous warriors Sorry for the sermon,your circumstances filled me with anger at the unjust treatment of good people

Last edited by 4evrnbljns; 01-08-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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  #38  
Old 01-08-2017, 09:08 AM
Mooseman1776 Mooseman1776 is online now
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please move you and your family to America. we desperately need people like you who are so dedicated in running a business ,to feed your family, that you willingly risk your life to do so. i compare this to many Americans hardly lifting a finger and calling it work.
you inspire me to work harder at my own business. bless you and be safe.
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  #39  
Old 01-08-2017, 10:17 AM
Herbert Cannon Herbert Cannon is offline
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A handgun is only to fight your way back to the rifle or shotgun you should not have put down in the first place. One of the mottos of Thunder Ranch.
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  #40  
Old 01-08-2017, 11:32 AM
kwo51 kwo51 is offline
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Uzi and most other machine pistols have threaded barrels for attachments ,how about a 10" barrel extension. Sand bags or old phone books slow down rounds. Be safe and travel with friends with guns.
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  #41  
Old 01-08-2017, 01:30 PM
magazineman magazineman is online now
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You cannot "take the fight to them"

There IS NO "them" They don't display as to who they are or wear uniforms.

The only way to do a pre-emptive attack would be to kill every male between the ages of 16 and 40 in the province.

& that would just be a start. Same reason we cant just kill all the Taliban, all the ISIS members, or the Viet Cong.

Now you CAN kill all the members of a UNIFORMED legit military company. We did that in WW2 & it was done to us too.

But a bunch of students, cabbies, body shop workers & farmers that part-time as bandits in street clothing is not possible to suppress.

Yes, you can act on dubious & questionable Street Intel at the peril of killing innocents.

But at that point you may be killing a dozen innocent people in a useless attempt to save your own single pathetic hide.

So...... who's the Bad Guy now?
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  #42  
Old 01-08-2017, 04:07 PM
walks with gun walks with gun is offline
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desmodromic, for home security, is it feasible to clear tree's and other foliage away from the house at least 200 meters. Give yourself a little cushion zone. And your only other option might be to write to every politician both in your county and the U.S. and complain often, same goes for media, find some reporters from the U.S. that might be willing to do a story on these bandits. Good luck sir.
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  #43  
Old 01-08-2017, 04:10 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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I'm flabbergasted by some of the "advice " in this thread. If four of the OPs personal friends have been kidnapped, there is only one sane piece of advice; move.

There are countries in the world where you don't need an Uzi and 3 pipehittters on your daily commute. Move to one of them. If your business is worth more than your life, I'd re-evaluate your priorities. Pride comes before the fall.

You don't have to be a soldier or a cop to give common sense advice. If someone is living in a situation where they need to constantly defend themselves against 5-6 armed gunmen, I'd say they are doomed to failure if their plan is to ask advice on an internet gun forum... you need to hire the Three Amigos to defend the village of Santa Poco. And that suggestion is as valuable as most of the others.
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Last edited by BoulderTroll; 01-08-2017 at 04:19 PM.
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  #44  
Old 01-08-2017, 04:26 PM
4evrnbljns 4evrnbljns is offline
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magazineman,very good point. To go on the offensive as I as I stated would be solely on the word of community as to who the bandits are. That intel is rife with error and abuse. The only option as I see it is, as stated, to travel in convoy with designated shooters. My post was formed with organized and well armed individuals in mind,something the OP does not have. I formulate from a sergeants mindset,not trained at the war college. I think unless he can organize the community to defend themselves,his best option is to plan an exit from an untenable situation. Live to fight another day
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  #45  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:48 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Bandits in the Phillipines.....

Quote:
The only way to do a pre-emptive attack would be to kill every male between the ages of 16 and 40 in the province.
I believe there are other means....confidential informants and a Philippines native willing to infiltrate the bandit organization would be a start in the right direction...... Having good intelligence is key to finding the local bandits. Once the bandits are either captured or killed, it may send a message to others thinking about kidnapping people to extort ransom money.....

The current method of kidnapping people and gaining/meeting ransom demands only re-enforces the bandits behavior so they feel they can operate with impunity..... As I stated in a previous post, IMHO, it is best to move....but if moving is not an option, fight to eradicate the bandits.....the bandits will not stop as long as they are successful.....
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  #46  
Old 01-09-2017, 08:27 AM
aquabum aquabum is online now
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Man, I wish we knew more about the OP situation and why he can't leave? I agree with the ones on here questioning why a free person allowed to move about (non-military) is willing to put themselves and their family at risk by staying in an area where being kidnapped on a daily basis is a real possibility!

MOVE!!!!
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  #47  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:10 AM
FightinTXAggie FightinTXAggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquabum View Post
Man, I wish we knew more about the OP situation and why he can't leave? I agree with the ones on here questioning why a free person allowed to move about (non-military) is willing to put themselves and their family at risk by staying in an area where being kidnapped on a daily basis is a real possibility!

MOVE!!!!
It seems as if the OP isn't looking for the best solution, but rather the easiest solution, or simply the one he wants to hear. I can't imagine, under the circumstances and limitations he has described, that I would be staying and waiting my turn.

Good luck, OP, and I hope you prevail when they come for you.
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  #48  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:15 AM
kwo51 kwo51 is offline
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Who wants to drive an armored car in Chicago ? Somebody needs to transfer $$$ around . They are all targets . As society collapses any thing that spells $$$ is a target.
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  #49  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:12 AM
SockPuppet SockPuppet is offline
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Even if you had a rifle too, there's little chance you will prevail against multiple attackers also armed with rifles that have you in the kill zone of a planned ambush.

Now if you had some sort of armored conveyance with a remote controlled belt feld you might stand a chance.

Otherwise, travel in a convoy with multiple armed escort vehicles.


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  #50  
Old 02-17-2017, 04:23 PM
racoonbeast60 racoonbeast60 is offline
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You have my sympathy my friend. I have several Filipino friends and have a fairly good idea of what you are talking about and the obstacles that you face in your environment.

As said many times, a handgun against rifles is almost always a losing proposition. It is better than a sharp stick, but nothing like a reasonable ticket to survival. The UZI will help, but honestly, if there is one of you and a number of them, the odds are still heavily in their favor.

I know that you probably are not in a position to buy armored cars, platoons of mercenarys and all of the other stuff that has been suggested. I think that the odds might tilt a little further in your favor if you, and maybe your driver, could arm themselves with 12 gauge shotguns with rifle sights and slugs. The guns usually can be had for not a lot of money. Armscor, a company local to you, puts out an M5 pump shotgun that is very budget priced here. By all reports, they are very usable shotguns. A couple of these shotguns should be very affordable for you, and with the right sights and slugs will put you on a pretty much even footing with your attackers at ranges out to a hundred yards. If you hit one, they will most likely stay down, too.
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