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  #1  
Old 01-04-2017, 04:38 AM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Question for Military, law enforcement and other similar field

I am only allowed to carry handguns and due numerous bandits in my area, i am wondering can a handgun serve as proper defense to people with rifles?

While you were at service, did you use your handgun against threats with high power rifle?

Can you win? Can you properly defend yourself? What is the best tactic to fight a better equipped threat.
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2017, 06:32 AM
Joe O Joe O is offline
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Carry both. A handgun won't due you much good, if someone is shooting at you from 100+ meters away, and using cover.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2017, 06:46 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Only allowed to carry a handgun.....

I would not want to place myself in a situation where I had to defend myself with a handgun against a bad guy with a high powered rifle.....

If you can only carry a handgun and are not allowed to have a rifle, it is best to avoid a gun fight, and perhaps give the bandits what they want.... however, if the bandits are known to rob and kill their victims, then it may be best to fight with anything you have.....

If you are allowed to carry two handguns, perhaps carry a very flat shooting magnum revolver that is very accurate, that can hit a man sized target at 100 yds. or better, and also carry a fast shooting high capacity gun, like a S&W M&P 9mm.

I use to compete in handgun metallic silhouette matches in the Production division and used a Ruger Blackhawk .44 magnum. Using my own handloads, the gun would shoot a 6" group from a rest at 100 yds..... My load was accurate and powerful enough to knock down the steel 42" tall rams at 200 meters.....
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2017, 08:47 AM
jago668 jago668 is offline
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How are they defining a handgun? If it is as the ATF classifies a pistol, then there are some alternatives. You have AR pistols with the sig brace. You have AK pistols. There are also the lever action mayor's leg pistols Henry makes (and I'm sure there are others).
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:55 AM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is offline
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How do the bandits operate? Do they make tactical use of their rifle superiority? Or do they surround your vehicle and just happen to be carrying rifles. IMO, under 15 yards a handgun is faster on target than a rifle.
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:06 AM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Bandits are usualy "kidnap
For ransom" group. Numerous of
My friends
Were kidnapped.

3 were returned , one was killed even if the ransom
Is paid. They usualy follow your routine and a group
Of 5-6 guys will surround you with high. Power riffle. Kill your driver to shock you and abduct you.
I know
My chances would be slim if i fight it out but i want to take
My chances than getting
My ear cut off as proof of life

Another
Modus operandi is a simple armed
Robbery,
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:07 AM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe O View Post
Carry both. A handgun won't due you much good, if someone is shooting at you from 100+ meters away, and using cover.
We are only permitted to carry pistols. Although i sneak out a shotgun or an AR from time
To
Time. This february I will recieve a fully automatic Uzi upsb. Will this help even if its
Just 9 mm?

With the recent drug war here in my country. Price of
Drugs have skyrockted, price has increased 15x. And the drug dependents will do anything to get money.

This is
No exageration, my friendly
Neighbor at my farm
Got killed because he sold his goat for
85$ and bad people got a wind of it and killed him
Formit

Last edited by desmodromic; 01-04-2017 at 10:11 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:32 AM
patter patter is offline
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Dang man, I would normally suggest a smorgasbord of cool weaponry or something. In this case I feel a visa and a good realtor would be The best option. But yea, pistol vs. multiple long guns is just a bad spot to be in. Stay safe.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2017, 11:51 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Kidnapping---it sounds like the gangs are operating up close and personal then.
If I had to live under such conditions I'd consider traveling in a group with armed cohorts.
One pistol against a gang isn't so good.
Two or three pistols against a gang is better.
Two or three Uzis against a gang is better yet!
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2017, 12:06 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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When you get the Uzi make sure that you practice with it.

They are difficult to use effectively especially at any distance. I would be judicious about my travel plans. It would appear that your presidents war on drugs is having some unintended consequences. I would also get the handgun with the most firepower that I could manage to get and use. I would likely carry My H&K Mark 23 or one of my S&W model 1006s. Unfortunately neither of which is likely to be easy to get where you live.

Let us know how you make out.
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2017, 01:11 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Clearly You CANNOT compete on a weapon or a numbers basis.

They have long arms AND superior numbers.

If there is going to be a fight you need more guys and better arms. There's no way around that fact.

Sure, you can improve your crappy odds with better skills / training but still the advantage is skewed VERY heavily in the bandit's favor.

So yes, get the Uzi & get as much use info you can (Israeli methods would be a good call)

But I think that your priority should be on strategic & tactical confrontation avoidance.

Be as hard a target as possible. Group up with other armed people/organizations in carpool convoys. Time your outings. Choose your destinations/ routes carefully. See if you can go places when the cops are going that way too.

Or just get the hell out. This is what I would do. Your paycheck is probably not worth it.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2017, 02:08 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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As others have said, there's no solid "tactical" solution, unless more people and more guns are a viable option.

You need to start thinking stratigiclly: where are you going, why, is the movement absolutely essential? Can you convoy with others? Can you significantly vary routes and times? Is professional security an option?
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2017, 02:54 PM
aquabum aquabum is offline
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Learn how to avoid the situation at all costs when possible. Make yourself not a target as much as possible.

That's all the advice I would have! In situations that you describe, you're screwed when coming up against multiple assailants with rifles if you simply have a handgun. And I would bet these are the type to have no regard for life at all. So all I can say is train up on how to make yourself not a target till you can move to a better location!

This type of situation is not something that your typical local LEO is going to have a clue about either. And only special operations troops are going to have the training and know how to survive when out numbered and outgunned. But they also go equipped with more than just a handgun as well!

Have good SA at all times and at the first sense of danger, I'd be getting the heck out of dodge no matter whether the threat is real or just perceived. Find cover as soon as you can if you cannot escape and give them hell if that's what you want to do too.

Last edited by aquabum; 01-04-2017 at 02:57 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2017, 05:21 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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There's only one way I know of to prevail, with a handgun, over multiple AK-wielding assailants:

Have the writers put it in the script.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:16 PM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Thankyou for your inputs, I will take pictures of the "Worry SPots" or transitional spaces where in I can be " Hit"

I travel with a driver most days , we will attend fire arms training on January 14. I hope this helps us in a good ways.

I am very concerned with our road where in its narrow and at the end the road will widen. Perhaps you can help me of a good strategy if something goes down
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For defense Glock 21 and Berreta 92M9A1.
For collection purposes Les Baer Ultimate Master Combat and SVI infinity .40 cal.
In order : Edbrown SF 9mm(6-9 months), Ed Brown Classic Custpm . 2 SVI pistols (14 months time if I am lucky) Wilson Combat Classic Supergrade , Wilson Combat Protector . Nighthawk Predator. UZI upp9sb auto
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:52 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Yes I think that I might be able to help you a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desmodromic View Post
Thankyou for your inputs, I will take pictures of the "Worry SPots" or transitional spaces where in I can be " Hit"

I travel with a driver most days , we will attend fire arms training on January 14. I hope this helps us in a good ways.

I am very concerned with our road where in its narrow and at the end the road will widen. Perhaps you can help me of a good strategy if something goes down
Keep your exposure down to a minimum. I used to have Phillipino Seaman working for me. This is the same advice that I gave them. If you have to go somewhere in a hostile environment find other people that have to make the same journey. Strength is in numbers any way that you look at it.
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2017, 03:16 AM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patter View Post
Dang man, I would normally suggest a smorgasbord of cool weaponry or something. In this case I feel a visa and a good realtor would be The best option. But yea, pistol vs. multiple long guns is just a bad spot to be in. Stay safe.
I cannot leave because it is my business, I can not just abandon it. I have used a gun before but both of us are wielding pistols so the fight is fair, I am just concerned if the guy is better equipped bandits are usually better equipped
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For defense Glock 21 and Berreta 92M9A1.
For collection purposes Les Baer Ultimate Master Combat and SVI infinity .40 cal.
In order : Edbrown SF 9mm(6-9 months), Ed Brown Classic Custpm . 2 SVI pistols (14 months time if I am lucky) Wilson Combat Classic Supergrade , Wilson Combat Protector . Nighthawk Predator. UZI upp9sb auto
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2017, 03:17 AM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
There's only one way I know of to prevail, with a handgun, over multiple AK-wielding assailants:

Have the writers put it in the script.
hahahahaha this made my day, "Rambo : 45ACP"
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For defense Glock 21 and Berreta 92M9A1.
For collection purposes Les Baer Ultimate Master Combat and SVI infinity .40 cal.
In order : Edbrown SF 9mm(6-9 months), Ed Brown Classic Custpm . 2 SVI pistols (14 months time if I am lucky) Wilson Combat Classic Supergrade , Wilson Combat Protector . Nighthawk Predator. UZI upp9sb auto
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2017, 03:27 AM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
Keep your exposure down to a minimum. I used to have Phillipino Seaman working for me. This is the same advice that I gave them. If you have to go somewhere in a hostile environment find other people that have to make the same journey. Strength is in numbers any way that you look at it.
Usualy it is just he driver and I. we carry to pistols all the time. After researching the abduction of my friend I noticed a patter

1. They were abducted while doing their routine (going to work/ bringing the kids to school ) that sort of thing

2. They wait for a road where there is a high way nearby

3. IF they do not go down quickly, they will shoot one of the passengers they consider less valuable to show they mean business

I conditioned my self that if goes down to this , I will fight it out to save my family the stress.
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For defense Glock 21 and Berreta 92M9A1.
For collection purposes Les Baer Ultimate Master Combat and SVI infinity .40 cal.
In order : Edbrown SF 9mm(6-9 months), Ed Brown Classic Custpm . 2 SVI pistols (14 months time if I am lucky) Wilson Combat Classic Supergrade , Wilson Combat Protector . Nighthawk Predator. UZI upp9sb auto
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  #20  
Old 01-05-2017, 06:22 AM
AnOldBiker AnOldBiker is offline
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There are two things I noticed that is of great defence:
1. Constant awareness of your surrounding
2. Trying to maintain a low level of adrenaline going into any situation

Two of the hardest/stressful things a human can do under that situation.

I understand the present president of the Philippines is trying to combat drugs and the users or sellers don't like that. Stay safe.

(We are fortunate living in this country. Unless someone lives in and area like certain parts of Chicago, it might be somewhat hard to fully understand what you and your family are going through)
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Last edited by AnOldBiker; 01-05-2017 at 06:27 AM.
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  #21  
Old 01-05-2017, 06:26 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Bandits/killers....

If I had a business and my life was always at risk from bandits, I would sell the business and move.....

However, if you choose to stay, don't wait for the bandits, take the offensive.
If you have friends, local law enforcement, or enough money to hire mercenaries.....track down the bandits and kill them.....it seems like people in the Philippines would be better off...!

If you don't have enough money to eradicate the bandits, or if the local law enforcement is corrupt or ineffective.....sell the business and move.....you can always start another business.....but once you are dead, you can't start another life....!
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2017, 12:47 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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wccountryboy may be the most knowledgeable forum member on this subject.
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2017, 01:04 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
wccountryboy may be the most knowledgeable forum member on this subject.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.... though it may be misplaced- or at least the answer is not what people want to hear.

If its just me and a driver, 1 vehicle, pistols only, confronted by multiple opponents armed with rifles: if the vehicle stops moving, for any reason, death or capture are the only probable outcomes. Even with 3 of my closest friends in the vehicle with me, the odds don't change much.

Tacticly, its a no-win engagement. Unless the bandits make some significant mistakes to exploit, it doesn't matter who yoh are, or what your training, background, or experience is... as the Irishman in Braveheart said "... Im pretty sure you're f%@#&!"

Avoidance is the best defense, and thats operational or stratigic thinking and planning.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. ~Samuel Adams~
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2017, 04:58 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I agree that the the most important control here is not the trigger, but the throttle.

How badass is your driver? Is he willing to run over someone blocking the vehicle?

Ram an obstruction?

Take to the sidewalk, with horn blaring & scooters flying?

Because if a civilian tries to block your vehicle, & there has not been an accident, we can assume they mean you harm----------Then it's Go Time.

Hey, You said it was the Wild West.

If your driver is NOT good with running over someone, maybe YOU should drive & keep him on lookout.
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:01 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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& forget about your vehicle's glass & bodywork. Point & spray that Uzi. It will go through whatever the obstruction is.

Don't waste time (& surprise element) by rolling down windows. Just shoot.

You can pay for repairs & a hearing aid later.
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