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  #1  
Old 11-21-2016, 12:40 AM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is online now
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Rail Mounted light w/laser or w/o?

This is for a dedicated home P226 40. This particular gun only leaves the house when we go on trips together as a "road trip gun". Otherwise it's strategically placed in the house with others. I have two Sig 40s for the house now, the other a P239 compact, and will add a third Sig soon. It will be another P226 equipped identically to the one I'm discussing here. I want a common operating system for the home. If I were the only one in the home to worry about operating the home defense guns, I may have just went with all 1911s. But I have my wife that I want to have comfort with a gun she can use intuitively. She has been through 3 professionally taught self defense classes with Sigs with 1000 rounds thru them, most from a holster draw with a DA first shot.

I'm about to buy a weapon mounted light (WML) for it and I'm considering a streamlight, possibly with a laser. I've owned a dozen or more defensive guns over the decades, but never had either a light or laser on any. Alternatively, I could put Crimson Trace laser grips on it in conjunction with a mounted light. I do like the independence of the two separate systems.

I'm looking for some experienced advice here. Not just on whether two separate systems should be used, but on the basic value of a WML and/or laser for home defense. My experience is limited to iron and red dot sights.
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Last edited by roaniecowpony; 11-21-2016 at 01:00 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2016, 01:45 AM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is offline
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Weapon-mounted lights are awesome. Lasers are great.

If you don't have some sort of pressure switch, there's a good chance the light and/or laser simply won't get used. Sooo... I highly recommend a weapon-mounted light with a pressure switch such as the Surefire X300 series with the DG switch. The Streamlight TLRs with their Contour switch rock (I have one on my Beretta M9A1 which is my duty gun when I'm not carrying a 1911), but they only make them for the Glock and M&P (but the M&P one fits the M9A1 perfectly... go figure).

If you don't train with the light bad things can happen. If you're not using a pressure switch you're very likely not going to use the light. If you try to use the light you will build in hesitation and complication which causes distraction. If you have a pressure switch and don't train effectively with it, you can develop bad habits which can lead to negligent discharges.

Lasers require appropriate training to develop the ability to shoot fast (if trained improperly or not trained it can actually slow you down) and to avoid over-dependence on the laser. I am a very big fan of lasers (though I don't have them on all of my defense and work guns) but I see a lot of people using them wrong.

Regarding lights and lasers; personally, I don't like separate systems. I've used CTC grips with WMLs and don't like it. I like the light/laser setups like the Surefire X400 and Streamlight TLR-2 series.
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Old 11-21-2016, 06:51 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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not an expert, or tactician of any kind....just a regular guy blessed with a little common sense ....so take it FWIW......

For a dedicated home defense gun, I think foolish NOT to have a WML
PLUS and hand held right next to it.

It's not an "either or" thing to me...it's foolish not to have BOTH

Lasers??
imHo, they have limited use, but are of value in limited situations .
So I see no reason NOT have one ..as long as you don't think like the novices that never shoot and think lasers are THE answer to their ignorant fantasies
again, imHo


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  #4  
Old 11-21-2016, 09:21 AM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is online now
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I've been cruising the Sig forums. Looks like Sig had a "better idea". They modified the Picatinny rail by putting a radius on the top (bottom on a pistol) surface. Apparently, a Picatinny accessory fits, but digs into the surface of the gun on this radiused top. I also found where at least one guy had a 226 with a TLR pressure switch for a Glock. Seemed to fit ok.

SCD,
to your point about training and ADs, I had been reading for a while now on various forums and articles about ADs with lights, including shootings of innocent people by LEO. I read something in the 1911 forum where I think you were commenting on the training and stats of LASD. I suppose I can talk with my brother who is a LASD det., but I haven't seen him with a WML.

Cappi,
Thanks for the input. As to reasons not to have WML, I think you and SCD both gave that reason: lack of training. I don't want to get the light/laser and not be ready to train myself and my wife. I think we can all agree a WML without training is not a good thing. My wife and I had a low light training class scheduled for this month, but it got cancelled. Probably work out for early in the new year, when I can get a WML for the Sig. I may shoot a 1911 with a handheld for that class if I don't have the second Sig by then.

As you can see in my post, I'm a believer in training. My wife has shot 1000 rounds in formal training this year and a couple hundred more in informal shooting. Nearly all of that with the Sig. I shot one of my 1911s in the same training. I'm also a believer in simple, intuitive operation for a home defense gun for our situation. That's why I chose a DA/SA Sig and will have all guns for the house of the same operating system. We currently have high powered flashlights with the guns.
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Last edited by roaniecowpony; 11-21-2016 at 09:25 AM.
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2016, 10:03 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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I've got white lights on all my serious guns and some not so serious.
I use the Streamlight TLR-1 on my M&P's, I purchased my Ruger 9mm pocket pistol with a light and two of my shorty AR's have lights.
No lasers though.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2016, 04:42 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roaniecowpony View Post
I. I think we can all agree a WML without training is not a good thing. s.
No we don't all agree.
No more than I'd agree that gWawks are "not a good thing" because
nincompoops walk with a "glock leg" limp

A flashlight on gun in civilian hands only requires common sense
Training can help one to use it more effectively, but if a homeownerr is too stupid to know pointing gun at their kids or dog to identify with wml......needs more than training


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  #7  
Old 11-21-2016, 05:13 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
No we don't all agree.
No more than I'd agree that gWawks are "not a good thing" because
nincompoops walk with a "glock leg" limp

A flashlight on gun in civilian hands only requires common sense
Training can help one to use it more effectively, but if a homeownerr is too stupid to know pointing gun at their kids or dog to identify with wml......needs more than training


LTA
I have to agree. Despite what some would like to think, using a gun defensively in general, or a WML specifically, isn't theoretical physics. Almost anyone with a room temperature IQ can easily learn to do so effectively, without hundreds of hours of "training". Many are capable of 'self teaching', more so in this day and age with the easy availability of information.

An 8 hour day, and a few hundred rounds, and someone who's never touched a gun in their life can develop a basic competency- with proper guidance and attention.
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2016, 09:38 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Weapon mounted lights......

I have been shooting and carrying a concealed weapon as a civilian for many years, and have never felt the need for a weapon mounted light. I do have a 6" Streamlight that I used when I was in LE, however I can easily use "the syringe technique" to hold a flashlight and weapon with two hands if needed.
Having shot Bullseye for over 10 years, I can shoot strong hand only very well if I decide to hold a small flashlight away from my body in my weak hand.

A weapon mounted light is good for LE and Military shooters......not a necessity for civilians...... If someone invades my home at night, I will not go looking for them, but will hunker down in my room and let them come to me.....otherwise, not knowing how many criminals have entered my home could get me ambushed if I start searching my home by myself.
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2016, 10:05 AM
steviesterno steviesterno is online now
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Lights on my HD guns, long guns or pistols. Modern lights need only be pointed at the ground to light up a room, and the center of the beam can act like a laser if you know how to use it.

I would much prefer to ID my target as a bad guy first than find out it my wife was out wandering...

Plus take one of those lights OFF THE GUN. Let your eyes get acclimated to the dark. Then shine it in your face. I was legit blind for a good 2 minutes, blurry vision another 5 or so. Would certainly edge things in your favor.


Lasers on carry guns only. I see them more as an aid or deterrent. From reading about real violent encounters, drawing or motioning to is usually enough, most fall short. But if I would have to shoot from a distance or weird angle, green lasers can be really helpful.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2016, 10:43 PM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Well, I recently purchased a surefire x400 with light and laser and installed it last night. I turned the lights off and my wife and kids were looking at me as I practice using the light.

It dawned on me that if it is pitch dark and there is an intruder in your house, the light will tell you where you are coming from, kinda like one of those telegraphic punches bullies used to give me, I can see it far away that I can duck.

I was thinking, hey since it is my house and I am familiar with it than the robber who just came in my house a few minutes ago, I can walk around with out a light.

I think the light and laser will be useful in surroundings that you are not used too.

again this is my opinion and I am not an expert or an experience tactician. Just have 2-3 experiences with an actual use of a gun.
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2016, 10:44 PM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
Weapon-mounted lights are awesome. Lasers are great.

If you don't have some sort of pressure switch, there's a good chance the light and/or laser simply won't get used. Sooo... I highly recommend a weapon-mounted light with a pressure switch such as the Surefire X300 series with the DG switch. The Streamlight TLRs with their Contour switch rock (I have one on my Beretta M9A1 which is my duty gun when I'm not carrying a 1911), but they only make them for the Glock and M&P (but the M&P one fits the M9A1 perfectly... go figure).

If you don't train with the light bad things can happen. If you're not using a pressure switch you're very likely not going to use the light. If you try to use the light you will build in hesitation and complication which causes distraction. If you have a pressure switch and don't train effectively with it, you can develop bad habits which can lead to negligent discharges.

Lasers require appropriate training to develop the ability to shoot fast (if trained improperly or not trained it can actually slow you down) and to avoid over-dependence on the laser. I am a very big fan of lasers (though I don't have them on all of my defense and work guns) but I see a lot of people using them wrong.

Regarding lights and lasers; personally, I don't like separate systems. I've used CTC grips with WMLs and don't like it. I like the light/laser setups like the Surefire X400 and Streamlight TLR-2 series.

Because of your post I will try the x400 in the range and train myself. thanks for the info
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:06 AM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is online now
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My wife and I have a Low-light class coming up. I bought a TLR-6 for her 1911 and I put some Crimson Trace grips on my Wilson for the class.



In the long run, I'm probably going to equip our home Sigs with TLR-2 high output lights/lasers.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:12 AM
mark2734 mark2734 is offline
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I have to agree with SoCalDep. Its not rocket science but using a WML on a handgun does require some training to be effective and NOT a negative for the user.

Cappi is also right, too many people think its WML or handheld light. Its not, its BOTH. Not every situation will require a WML, and sometimes a WML can give the user a huge advantage.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:55 PM
BillD BillD is offline
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My HD and truck pistols (M&P .40s) have TLR 1 lights. 3 of my ARs and my 870 have WML.
My carry pistol (Ruger LC9s Pro) has a WML and it's carried in my pocket.
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  #15  
Old 01-29-2017, 09:45 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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x-400 is a great piece of equipment.
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