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  #26  
Old 11-15-2016, 11:30 AM
steviesterno steviesterno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in TX View Post
Thoughts on this shotgun as a truck gun?

****************

The second possibility would be an AK pistol in 7.62x39.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/598732855

That's a little bit more than I'd want to pay for a gun that'll reside full time in my truck though.
Shotguns are pretty long for what they are. I tried it, and even with a pistol grip pump with 18" barrel it's longer than a good AR pistol. 4 shot short range blaster or 30 round you can shoot with one hand and reach out?

If I was set on a shotgun I would probably get a side by side and cut it to the bare minimum length (26" with 18" barrel). still pretty long though. I'm still thinking something semi auto. I'm going to buy a Kel Tec Sub 2k once I can find one at MSRP and not double it.

I'm debating a NFA cut down shotgun for under the steering wheel, but not a fan of the paperwork. Maybe a scorpion or MPX with folding brace when they get a bit more reasonable in cost.
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  #27  
Old 11-15-2016, 02:57 PM
Recurveman Recurveman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LW McVay View Post
For you cats thinking of launching bullets outward from your car, I'd recommend some ear pro. You have no idea of how brutal that is. Even with just a handgun. But with a rifle? - unbelievable!
Very true. I always have a pair of LG Bluetooth earbuds around my neck synced with my phone. They block enough noise that I am able to shoot at an indoor range with only them. Car would still probably hurt a bit but only after the adrenaline left the body. In a bad situation it would allow you to go hands free while talking to 911.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-2016, 07:16 PM
Riverboys Riverboys is offline
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I think extreme defensive driving skills would be very useful and get you out of trouble faster. High speed driving in reverse, through obstacles and with a reverse 180 thrown in. Power donuts will keep a crowd at bay.
This can be practiced in a large empty parking lot.
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2016, 08:01 PM
Gary in TX Gary in TX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steviesterno View Post
Shotguns are pretty long for what they are. I tried it, and even with a pistol grip pump with 18" barrel it's longer than a good AR pistol. 4 shot short range blaster or 30 round you can shoot with one hand and reach out?
The main advantage with shotguns over rifles is cost.

I have several rifles (several AR's and AK's with one of them being an AR pistol, a Daewoo DR-200 and a PTR-91) that I could use, the only issue for me is that I wouldn't be okay with any of them permanently residing in the truck due to the cost of replacing them if stolen. It'll be both hidden and locked up until I get in, but regardless of what theft security measures I put into place there's still more risk. So whatever ends up getting the nod has to work and it has to be inexpensive.

I'd also get a 3-rd mag extension (that shotgun uses Rem 870 magazine tubes), increasing its capacity to 7+1 which isn't that bad if you think of it as 7 to 8 rd bursts of eight or nine .33 cal projectiles.

Quote:
If I was set on a shotgun I would probably get a side by side and cut it to the bare minimum length (26" with 18" barrel). still pretty long though.
Would definitely be good on length, I dunno about the only two-rds part though.

Quote:
I'm still thinking something semi auto. I'm going to buy a Kel Tec Sub 2k once I can find one at MSRP and not double it.
Those are actually alright. A buddy of mine had their .40 Glock version. If their Glock 9mm options were a little more common and didn't command more than their MSRP I'd probably be all over it.

Quote:
I'm debating a NFA cut down shotgun for under the steering wheel, but not a fan of the paperwork. Maybe a scorpion or MPX with folding brace when they get a bit more reasonable in cost.
Definitely cool, falls into the category of too much money wrapped up into it for me though.

Plus I remember reading this article written by Massad Ayoob detailing when an employee of some gun manufacturer and his girlfriend were chased across town by three bikers in a truck before cell phones were around and they finally got their car penned in and the man blasted one of the men coming at him with a knife with a full-auto Ruger AC556.

An anti-gun prosecutor went after the man and eventually lost, but Ayoob came to the conclusion from this and other cases that were prosecuted that using an NFA weapon is one of the last things that you want to use.
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  #30  
Old 11-15-2016, 08:37 PM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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And, I just looked at a program where they were saying road rage is practically everywhere now and incidents of personal confrontation are rising fast. Where I have not been carrying a pistol in the car all the time, I guess I will now. Plus you never know when you're going to get caught up in a flash mob.
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  #31  
Old 12-04-2016, 10:51 AM
Beachboy Beachboy is offline
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Some very valid points and I appreciate the info on the Steelie mount, I'll probably have one before E.O.D.
Avoidance is much preferred, but perhaps not always possible, but instead of rehashing the points already made let me offer one more deterrent tool, available at most big box discounters and sporting goods stores. All with usual caveats about not breaking your defensive perimeter if possible and acknowledging that it can be a deadly device as well as psychologically intimidating and it is a single, shot slow to reload device.
The simple plastic Orion flare launcher. It's bright red construction aids in making it easily visible, the first flare launched upward announces your intention to defend and signals for help or first round into the crowd changes the dynamic, makes you the aggressor and confirms to the rioters that you're willing to bet their lives on your safety and welfare.
Just 1 more tool in the tool box and it has both advantages and disadvantages.
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  #32  
Old 12-04-2016, 10:53 AM
400cor-bon 400cor-bon is online now
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2016, 02:50 PM
Blue Duck Blue Duck is offline
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living in a rural area, I experienced 11,000 dollars damage to my pickup over a deer hit. And that is probably still my biggest threat where I live.

But sometimes I do go on cross country trips, and I am not a big tech computer nerd, I don't and won't know if I am driving into a riot while traveling, probably. Avoidance is wonderful but lets just assume that didn't pan out.

I am considering (mainly for the deer problem) putting a big Ranch Hand Bumper and Grill guard on my pickup. I have made up my mind that I am not getting stopped in a protest. But it's more then rolling on slowly. What if traffic backs up and does constantly. Many times there really is no where to go, even jumping over curbs won't get you out of it.

Sure windows up, doors locked, try not to become a target, through actions, eye contact,etc. But if that fails, it's a shooting solution when the glass starts to break, as far as I am concerned.
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2016, 04:01 PM
kwo51 kwo51 is offline
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Stay in outside lane always have a way out your vehicle is your best weapon. Years of driving armored cars have taught don't fight until you have too.
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  #35  
Old 12-04-2016, 04:12 PM
Sock Sock is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory View Post
I drive stick. That's the best place for it to be. Out of the holster and right in front of me.
Try a sticky holster wedged between the seats?
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  #36  
Old 12-05-2016, 04:24 AM
Chowser Chowser is offline
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Instead of phone mount why not a dedicated dash cam. Granted it won't record what's happening next to you but it would show what you were driving into. I had turned the audio off on mine but decided me singing isn't going to offend anyone and being able to dictate what's happening on video would be more helpful if anything happened.
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  #37  
Old 12-26-2016, 11:43 AM
Gary in TX Gary in TX is offline
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Decided against a shotgun, bought a G21 with 3 mags total and threw that in the lockbox instead.



Whenever the threat of civil unrest increases I'll continue to throw in one of my folding stock AK's and a few mags and then take it out as it decreases.
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  #38  
Old 12-26-2016, 01:07 PM
nh-murph nh-murph is offline
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Unless you fellers started talking about the civil unrest here on the forum, I probably wouldn't even know about it! Nice to be out of the way and out of mind here in the boonies. Not a lot of neighbors, outside a small town, don't watch TV and am not a particularly social being. I bet my truck wouldn't even get to smear any looters or rioters. I do like to keep an AR pistol in the truck though. Better to have and not need.
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  #39  
Old 12-26-2016, 04:43 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is online now
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Make a 180 and get the "H" out of Dodge.
My 2 cents.
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  #40  
Old 12-26-2016, 06:13 PM
CamoColt CamoColt is offline
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Why buy a shotgun when you can carry a Governor. Compact and gives you the choice of .45 Colt, .45ACP, or .410 shotgun shells. There are some nasty self defense rounds in the .410 shells. And most people seeing the size of the muzzle will get the idea to get away.
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  #41  
Old 12-26-2016, 08:03 PM
Doran Doran is offline
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Better than OnStar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc
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  #42  
Old 12-26-2016, 09:55 PM
mikesheating mikesheating is offline
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You need to be aware of what part of the city your in, and what's going on at that time. You would have to be def and blind to not know the city was "humming with electricity". If your plan is to shoot or run over a protester, make sure to plan that about half the protesters will have pistols, and turn your car into a Pepper Box. You may also run into things like CriticalMass and they look like a mob but they are just PIA hipsters. https://www.facebook.com/ChicagoCriticalMass/
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  #43  
Old 12-26-2016, 10:00 PM
Gary in TX Gary in TX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Joseph View Post
Make a 180 and get the "H" out of Dodge.
If you have that option that would be great. I'll take avoidance over continuing on into a situation where I or a loved one could get injured or killed. Some of this is assuming you're already blocked in either by other innocent motorists, thugs or both.
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  #44  
Old 12-26-2016, 10:19 PM
fast eddie fast eddie is offline
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Sun Tzu says the Best Victory is the Battle Never Fought.
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  #45  
Old 12-27-2016, 03:30 AM
Sock Sock is online now
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Originally Posted by fast eddie View Post
Sun Tzu says the Best Victory is the Battle Never Fought.
Yeah. Contrary to popular belief the first rule of a gunfight is don't show up.
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  #46  
Old 12-31-2016, 11:28 AM
SAPPERJoe SAPPERJoe is offline
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Avoid it at all costs. Be aware. That means have some insight on what is trending, what is happening locally. If you drive through an urban area on a regular basis, take some alternate routes. You may be surprised what a couple of streets away can be for your mobility. Google maps and Waze are decent about reporting most blocked roads, but not without flaws.

I served in Army and now do this professionally, including specialized training. Much of it is of course, avoid the problem, but also identifying the threat and getting off the X. I've had the (mis)fortune of protests on four continents, and they all had risks. Biggest problem is most people get into a trance like mind set when driving.

Realistically, you need to concentrate on driving and get out of there. If you start shooting, you're not driving. If you have a passenger, they need to become your extra eyes. They can also navigate for you, or at least look ahead as you concentrate on near threats. As mentioned by others, if you start shooting, you will become the focus of the protest and the police. Regardless of your right to defend yourself, you shooting in a protest event will change the entire dynamic of the event.

Rifle? Shotgun? Rifle caliber pistol? You can guarantee you will be engaged by LEOs and possibly a civilian with a CCW.

There are ways to harden your vehicle, as well. Some companies offer laminating sheets for vehicle glass that makes the glass smash resistant. They offer bullet resistant levels of protection, as well. The thickness/ weight will affect the operation of the power windows and may burn out the motors. It happened on one of our vehicles and became a problem.

You should consider having to abandon the vehicle. If the protest envelops your vehicle, you are blocked in by other vehicles, or Law Enforcement orders you out of your vehicle, you need to be ready to move. As much as I'd love to have a rifle, getting out with no visible weapon will draw less attention. Having a "go bag" will pay dividends, and may be the place for that broken down or short rifle. Keep in mind, the small pack may get ripped from you, so you may be introducing a long arm into a threat.

You own everything you can carry at a full run. If you don't have it in your pockets or strapped to your body, you may have to abandon it. Know this and work with it. This includes your family members. More than likely, a person can't do tacticool stuff while trying to get the toddler out of the threat area.

My thoughts based on my experiences, plus there are several other posts discussing what to carry, how to carry, etc. Make your own decisions based on the choices you have.
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  #47  
Old 12-31-2016, 11:29 AM
SAPPERJoe SAPPERJoe is offline
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Protests

Avoid it at all costs.

Last edited by SAPPERJoe; 12-31-2016 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Duplicate Post
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  #48  
Old 01-01-2017, 09:38 AM
automagj automagj is offline
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Gary in TX thank you for the post. Never thought that could happen in TX. Well living in a neighborhing state I had to be in Ft Worth on the day after the Zimmerman aquitall. With all the protest in the Houston area (blocking interstate bridges and ramps etc) area I thought "well just splendid" but was not going to let a bunch of thugs disrupt my everyday ordinary trade and commerce or other words my financial lively hood. My plan was to avoid interstate intersections, heads up news reports and pay close attention to traffic build up. Kept my F-150 in 4W hi and prepare to keep rolling no matter what (away from confrontation) If possible. Fortunately nothing happened that far north. I keep a 380 pocket pistol near me for first line of defense. If things persist big bird will fly out of the console - 44 mag desert eagle. Since then I keep an old range bag under my back seat complete with ear plugs, glasses, few targets 200 rounds of warm hand loaded 50 AE and an old black mk 19 DE (you know trunk gun) for back up. If I were to be pulled over by a trooper I would have an alibi of "sir"-"mam" I was headed to range later today. Always be prepared!
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  #49  
Old 01-01-2017, 10:43 PM
DBLOCK98 DBLOCK98 is offline
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I live in one of the top 3 US cities for violent crime and this is one of my more likely scenarios. There have been major protests that shut down major highways and sporadic violence on the other side of town. My solution is a multi tier system that consists of a GHB that is geared to provide food, water, tools, and appropriate clothing for 36 hours. I also keep a separate blow out medical kit/active shooter bag that keeps two AR mags and a 21 round Glock mag on it. I also have another extended mag accessible on the dashboard to use in addition to a Glock 17 that's always in the truck and my normal EDC of a Glock 26. On Election Day and the 3 after I also packed an AR, but as mentioned before, plan A is always avoidance, B is using the vehicle, C is to abandon the vehicle and hoof on foot and Guns go hot only when swarmed, windows are being broken trying to get to me or weapons pointed.


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