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Old 11-11-2016, 11:02 AM
Gary in TX Gary in TX is offline
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Vehicle Preps - Rioting and Violent Protests

As far back as when the media was trying to pump up the thugs so that they'd riot if the Zimmerman verdicts I established some decent vehicle preps in case of rioting, so they're pretty well well established.

The nation-wide rioting didn't happen in the wake of the Zimmerman verdict (I guess the Goons were too busy getting stoned and playing GTA or Black-ops), but there have been plenty of riots since then.

While driving I'm not going to get blocked in, have my window smashed, dragged out and get my skull dented with bricks and kicks to the head losing my ability to walk or speak. Not going to happen without me doing my best to defend myself.

https://youtu.be/UMP6bXnXdZM

https://youtu.be/u9snWgbVt5w

https://youtu.be/UZQZYVhwoi0


So whenever unrest pops up yet again I try to make ready as best I can. I carry two pistols instead of one, carry two spare mags for the back-up and three for the main pistol on me and then extra loaded mags and ammo in the truck. The second pistol could also be for my wife. She'd shoot (especially if my 5-year old son was even remotely in danger, she just has a mental thing about carrying one herself). Threw in the larger and better first aid kit, made sure that the tires and belts were all good (gotta replace the front left tire) and made sure that I have spare gas in the tool box that's sealed in a metal can so its not a fire hazard. Fix o flat, portable air compressor, fire extinguisher and tool kit were all checked. I also keep more water in the bed of the truck in jugs. Also have a half case of water outlets and some snacks for lil dude if we get stuck somewhere.

If I or my family are away from the house and we find out that there's a large protest or rioting in between us and home we'd just stay in place, go to a hotel there if need be or go far around to avoid it. What I wouldn't do is get into an indignant muscle-flex frame of mind and drive right through the protest to try to prove something.

If caught in it anyway I'd keep the truck moving no matter what as once you're stopped it's difficult to get going again while driving in a crowd.

Also probably going to get one of those fire extinguisher size pepper spray canisters. If it's a non-lethal threat its an obvious choice to use that instead of a pistol like say they're blocking us in. I have a couple smaller cans of pepper spray, but they don't put out anything like that. I'm not gonna get blocked in, beaten, car jacked and to potentially lose my life like that guy.

I'm also thinking about getting a cheap 12 gauge pump to exclusively keep in the truck. Something that works well, but that I don't care if it gets banged around. My LGS has 8 rd Mossberg 500's for $300. I could probably find a better deal than that though. Haven't decided on that.

-
So, have you thought about how to respond to rioting if you're away from home and in your vehicle?

Here's a pretty good write up of a somewhat liberal guy who managed to do some decent driving to get him and his family home during the LA Riots.

http://www.seraphicpress.com/jew-without-a-gun/

Just stomping on the gas and hitting members of the crowd can be a bad idea.

https://youtu.be/NIKYvUebRQg

These are much better ideas.

http://theexpiredmeter.com/2016/03/t...ts-mobs-riots/

1-Lock your car doors

You don’t want rioters to be able to open your vehicle’s doors to attack you or your passengers. So keep your doors locked until you have safely escaped the area.

2-Roll up your windows

Another obvious but important tip is to roll up your windows so rioters can’t reach inside your vehicle. Car windows are pretty darn strong and can withstand a lot of abuse before they break. Some believe car windows are even harder to break if you lower them a fraction of an inch.

3-Seat belt

Keep your seat belt on. Not only should you be belted in for safety reasons in case you have to make a speedy or creative escape, but also to make it more difficult for someone to pull you from your vehicle.

4-Put your emergency blinkers on

Blinkers will alert people in the street that you’re vehicle is being operated and to stand back as you come through. The goal is to not strike anyone or injure people–even those who are illegally blocking the street–with your vehicle.

5-Honk your horn

As you are driving through the mob and rioters are walking toward your vehicle, h0nk your horn to warn them your vehicle is moving and you’re not going to stop.

6-Do not engage rioters

Try not to communicate with any of the rioters. Do not engage them with taunts or even what you think is friendly conversation. Chances are any discussion will escalate tensions and just incite an already heated situation.

7-Take video

If you have a dash cam, turn it on. If you have a smart phone or video camera, start it rolling. You want to have documentation in case something goes wrong and you need to show evidence to law enforcement that it was the rioters and not you violating the law. And that you were within your rights to drive in the manner you did.

8-Do not stop, always keep moving

No matter what you do, keep your vehicle in motion at all times. Once your vehicle is stopped the threat to you and your passengers increases dramatically.

The key is to drive slow enough to allow rioters to get out of your way and/or not injure anyone, but fast enough so no one can get on top of, or grab onto your vehicle or impede your car in any way. The last thing you want is a mob of people swarming over your car and stopping you from escaping or inflicting harm upon you and your passengers.

If someone tries to stop your vehicle by standing in front of it–do NOT stop. Slow down, but do not stop. In this situation just take your foot off the gas pedal and allow the engine to slowly push them out of way. Don’t accelerate erratically and strike the people blocking your vehicle. Instead nudge or push them out of the way as gently as possible. Again, the goal is to escape the situation safely without injuring anyone.

However, if the crowd begins to attack your vehicle and you believe you and your passengers are in imminent danger, then steadily increase your speed to the point where rioters cannot disable your vehicle and get out of there as quickly as possible. If it comes down to a choice of protecting your friends and family and striking a rioter–the choice is obvious.

9-What happens if you do strike someone?

If you do strike someone, first, safely escape the situation. Once you reach a safe distance away. Call 911, report the incident and wait for further instructions from law enforcement. As long as you do this, you will likely not be charged with hit and run.

Remember, the street is for vehicles–not for mindless swarms of protesters–no matter how moral or worthy the cause may be. They are breaking the law while you are just trying to legally drive your vehicle on the public way–one specifically designated for motor vehicles.
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Last edited by Gary in TX; 11-11-2016 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 11-11-2016, 11:36 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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I am glad that I do not have to live in the city anymore.

About the worst thing that I might happen into would be hitting a deer.
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Old 11-11-2016, 11:47 AM
steviesterno steviesterno is offline
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I agree with most of this post, and it's stuff you should do anyway. Leave room between yourself and other cars, windows up, doors locked, etc. I watch the news or at least check traffic before I go almost anywhere (Dallas here) so I would probably have advance warning, and would go around.

But if something happens and I'm blocked in, I'm nervous. My truck is set up so I can pop over a curb or go around most problems. But if you block me in space and are a threat to me, I'm going through you. My truck is a much better deterrent than a 9mm. With a big bumper and reenforced paint, 300 HP of 4x4 beats any CCW pistol or rifle in your car.
So yeah, the gun would be out on my lap at that point, but my foot is staying on the gas. Horns and lights are a great start, but once you nudge a couple people out of the way they should get the idea.

If not (and my life is in danger or I really believe it is) a couple of gun shots should motivate people to move. Not macho bravado, but in news footage once rounds start flying, untrained people duck and run like hell.

Last edited by steviesterno; 11-11-2016 at 11:49 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-11-2016, 11:51 AM
Gary in TX Gary in TX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
About the worst thing that I might happen into would be hitting a deer.
Lol...wish that was the case here.

Definitely not as bad here as it is some places back east though.
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Old 11-11-2016, 12:31 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is online now
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Like USMM, around here, hitting deer is more likely than a protestor.

However, in times of unrest like this, keeping my eyes open and staying out of the urban jungles is a good thing to be able to do.
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Old 11-11-2016, 04:22 PM
mosteve mosteve is offline
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Well written and well thought out! I like the pepper spray idea too!
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Old 11-11-2016, 10:53 PM
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I live 5 miles back a gravel road. The only crowds I see are bovine in nature.

But I do drive through Kansas City to get to the and from the airport almost every week.

Some other things to consider.

As stated, plan you position at a stop sign or light. Always be able to drive around or through an intersection.

Be aware of the dead spot in your mirrors. Thugs know that when they approach your car from behind, if they cannot see your face, you cannot see them. Lean forward and back to check those dead spots.

I keep body armor and an AR pistol in my car in the event it gets really bad. A 60 rd magpul mag in a 10.5 " pistol can break contact quickly.

Use a mount like a steelie to keep your phone up on the dash. Most smart phones have a voice activated photo and video feature where they will take a picture or turn on the video with a key word.

Sunshades (My car has them built in) can also slow or stop glass from a shattered window.

First aid kit is a must.

Program the local hospitals into your GPS.
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Old 11-11-2016, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fast eddie View Post
Use a mount like a steelie to keep your phone up on the dash. Most smart phones have a voice activated photo and video feature where they will take a picture or turn on the video with a key word.
Great tips - I had to google 'steelie mount' and am going to buy one for my dash tomorrow.

I haven't used the voice feature on my Galaxy S5 but your post prompted me to google for instructions, and it looks very useful.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:08 PM
steviesterno steviesterno is offline
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oh yeah, I have a full time and night vision enabled dash cam, too. should be good for at least capturing idiots on camera, and never hurts to let people know they are being watched.
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2016, 07:23 PM
buckhorn_cortez buckhorn_cortez is offline
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I would think Rule #1 would be: Stay out of areas where protests or rioting might occur.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:28 PM
Rumblur Rumblur is online now
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I was thinking wrap from end with barbed wire and do doughnuts.
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Old 11-13-2016, 05:44 PM
hs125pilot hs125pilot is offline
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Why would you want to that? Sounds pretty mean spirited to me.
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:16 PM
The Stank The Stank is offline
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Some good stuff posted here.

Someone mentioned putting their gun in their lap to have it ready. I wouldn't do that. Think about the 1986 Miami FBI shoot out.
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:26 PM
EvolutionArmory EvolutionArmory is offline
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Originally Posted by The Stank View Post
Some good stuff posted here.

Someone mentioned putting their gun in their lap to have it ready. I wouldn't do that. Think about the 1986 Miami FBI shoot out.
I drive stick. That's the best place for it to be. Out of the holster and right in front of me.
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Old 11-14-2016, 06:34 AM
skypig skypig is offline
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Another tip.
Put your route in Google maps on a phone. The traffic app is unbelievable. Green road is normal, yellow is mild congestion (slow) red is bad/very slow. (It does it by monitoring all the cell phones on the road. Live)
Using it like a GPS you can spot the hazards from miles back.
Hopefully the other preparations then won't be required.

Bad weather
The new pilots push on, while the more experienced pilots turn back.
The most experienced pilots are drinking coffee in the crew room wondering why anyone would try flying in that!
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:44 AM
nypd3765 nypd3765 is offline
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Probably the best defense is to have a Hillary bumper sticker on your truck or car when you enter a danger zone. Seems her supporters are the ones doing the rioting. Then when you return back to civilization you can just peel off the bumper sticker. If you save the wax paper backing you can use it over and over again.
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:26 AM
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Have a fully loaded AR Pistol in your lap. Shotgun by your side and 1911 on your side. I'm not stopping for noting but flashing police lights.

Honking the horn? Dumb idea unless your looking for more attention. If a window gets broken, that is a sign of imminent life or death danger. First in will be the first to get shot.

These crowds are emboldened by Drivers stopping and permitting them to block the road. Keep going. We have enough reason to believe we will be seriously harmed if you slow down or stop. I doubt there is any Court that will convict you for hitting people whom are trying to make you stop so they can harm you and your passengers.

This is out of control and presents a clear and present danger. Why are the Police allowing this to happen? Start arresting these people. Toss their asses in jail. Will be doing us all a service.

The world is on fire.
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Old 11-14-2016, 12:09 PM
Gary in TX Gary in TX is offline
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Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
Have a fully loaded AR Pistol in your lap. Shotgun by your side and 1911 on your side. I'm not stopping for noting but flashing police lights.

Honking the horn? Dumb idea unless your looking for more attention. If a window gets broken, that is a sign of imminent life or death danger. First in will be the first to get shot.

These crowds are emboldened by Drivers stopping and permitting them to block the road. Keep going. We have enough reason to believe we will be seriously harmed if you slow down or stop. I doubt there is any Court that will convict you for hitting people whom are trying to make you stop so they can harm you and your passengers.

This is out of control and presents a clear and present danger. Why are the Police allowing this to happen? Start arresting these people. Toss their asses in jail. Will be doing us all a service.

The world is on fire.
^Exactly^

--------

At any rate I think that I'm going to get a full time gun for the truck. I've been just tossing in a folding stock AK and several spare mags whenever this stuff pops up

I have a few ideas and one of them is a semi-auto shotgun with a pistol grip and ghost ring sights. Kinda going through a shotgun and AK phase right now. The shotgun phase was brought about when I bought a Stoeger M3K, great gun. Been putting a ton of rds through it. Love that thing. I'm not putting that gun in my truck full time though and I'm also not buying another one for $710.09 (out the door price including tax) let alone the $124 additional cost in in parts for a Total of $834.09. Besides, its way too long.

It's probably not going to be a rifle merely due to cost. The days of the $75 SKS or the $150 to $300 AK are over. I could probably get something like a Mosin Nagant or a Mauser or a lever action rifle, but for defense at the ranges likely from vehicle to vehicle on the road I don't feel like that it would have much over a semi-auto shotgun loaded with buckshot or slugs and there would be some pretty significant disadvantages.

I started looking at low cost shotguns starting with pumps. Top of the list for me are the Mossberg Maverick 88 and the Mossberg 500 for a little over $200. There are other pump shotguns out there, but I don't feel like they offer anything over the Mossbergs low cost and reliability. Grew up as a Remington 870 fan, but I can't see what it would do that a Mossberg wouldn't.

I do feel that for vehicle to vehicle defense that a semi-auto shotgun with a pistol grip does offer some advantages over a pump shotgun with a traditional stock. Running a shotgun with a traditional stock is a little faster than a pistol grip shotgun in my opinion, especially if you're loading deuces and quads from a belt set up for that. Flipping it over completely for weak hand reloads is faster with a traditional stock and it won't get in your way throwing over your shoulder. To me the advantage of shooting a pistol grip semi-auto shotgun in vehicle to vehicle defense is that you can shoot the gun with one hand while driving. With a semi you also aren't having to manually cycle the action like with a pump shotgun. The next rd is available right away after the squeeze of a trigger.

So I started looking around at semi-auto shotguns with a pistol grip and most of them were fairly expensive. With a long gun meant for the truck I kind of wanted to stick to $300 or lower. Finding a semi-auto shotgun that works well within those parameters is a tough challenge and if it's not going to work well I feel I'd be better off sticking with what I have for defense when out and about.

Here's the semi shotgun I found. It's a Turkish semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun with a pistol grip, ghost ring sights and it can be fitted with magazine extensions (Based on info from the web Remington 870 extensions work). It's available on gunbroker for $270. After tax and the FFL fees (I have an FFL that charges $15) the total price would probably be around $320 before getting a mag extension.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Bro...INBERTA&Cats=0

Here are the reviews and videos :

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...tac20-shotgun/

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...%2B1+3+12ga+20

https://youtu.be/IythvYBkkm8

https://youtu.be/HxwtJWiYjhA

Thoughts on this shotgun as a truck gun?

****************

The second possibility would be an AK pistol in 7.62x39.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/598732855

That's a little bit more than I'd want to pay for a gun that'll reside full time in my truck though.
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Last edited by Gary in TX; 11-14-2016 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:25 PM
bmrtoyo bmrtoyo is offline
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rioting and violent protestors

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
Have a fully loaded AR Pistol in your lap. Shotgun by your side and 1911 on your side. I'm not stopping for noting but flashing police lights.

Honking the horn? Dumb idea unless your looking for more attention. If a window gets broken, that is a sign of imminent life or death danger. First in will be the first to get shot.

These crowds are emboldened by Drivers stopping and permitting them to block the road. Keep going. We have enough reason to believe we will be seriously harmed if you slow down or stop. I doubt there is any Court that will convict you for hitting people whom are trying to make you stop so they can harm you and your passengers.

This is out of control and presents a clear and present danger. Why are the Police allowing this to happen? Start arresting these people. Toss their asses in jail. Will be doing us all a service.

The world is on fire.
this whole thing is getting out of control , if trump voters were pulling this bs it would be the riot act ,, i was never raised to act like these spoiled little millennial brats from an era of "entitlement" i was a military brat ,and we were told to tow the line or we would get our asses whipped ,these crying libs have created generations of lifetime student activists ,that are essentially UN-hirable , rant over

Last edited by bmrtoyo; 11-14-2016 at 07:27 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:33 AM
City Rat City Rat is offline
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Ok guys this is all fun stuff to fantasize about but how many of you guys have actually been in a protest crowd or riot? Not counting covering them back as an intrepid college newspaper photographer, lol since I am grown up and have had training been caught up in protests both in Latin America and the Middle East. Rule #1 Avoidance at all costs. If you have good SA and know that troubles a brewin stay out of those comunities and , stay away from the places and symbols that are objects of their protests. So not enough to just stay away from the proteter's neighborhoods, however you figure that out, but also from the courthouse, police HQ or elsewhere that is the object of their anger. Last on this point, stay away from the travel.routes that the protesters are using to get from A to B. That is how I got caught in the ME. I was with a group, we had good SA on A and B and I worked out a route to get to where we needed to go that avoided those two points but our route cut smack accross the protestors travel route. Worse it was a cut through the narrow streets in the old section of town and the riot cops had closed in behind my group setting an ambush up for the protestors. With cops closing from behind and protestors advancing from the front we bailed into a store whose frantic owner was trying to close. We helped her close up and she let us bail out the back so as to avoid the tear gas. Lesson learned.
Second point- Hit a protestor and become the new object of the mob's rage. Shoot one, same result. If the mob is big enough and angry enough there are few drive through scenarios that end well. Hence my take away is avoidance at all costs.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:12 AM
Recurveman Recurveman is offline
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I live in an urban area that is not well known for protests but not unheard of. These current ones won't go anywhere around me because the people protesting tend to be the lazy millennial special snowflakes.
However the anti-police ones we have had were different. My suppressed SBR was upfront with me locked and loaded, and my 1911 on my side. Being a lefty I have a slight advantage when sitting buckled in a vehicle. Due to the nature of my job I was required to travel to the areas of the protests, and I also have a thin blue line flag on my truck. Yes I know it makes me a target but I refuse to remove it.
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:08 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:50 AM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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i was driving home a couple of years ago, in a rag top Suzuki Samurai, when my route took me into a spontaneous May Day pro-illegal immigrant demonstration. it hadn't been announced earlier, and it was starting to spiral out of control. I kept my cool, tried not to make eye contact, and found a way to get out of the mayhem with no more than a few shouts of "gringo" and "whitey".

I had my CCW on me, but I don't know that one could have enough firepower to fight their way out of a large mob. I also post this as an example that you can't always plan not to be in the middle of the melee.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:24 AM
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LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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For you cats thinking of launching bullets outward from your car, I'd recommend some ear pro. You have no idea of how brutal that is. Even with just a handgun. But with a rifle? - unbelievable!
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:30 AM
Gary in TX Gary in TX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Rat View Post
Ok guys this is all fun stuff to fantasize about but how many of you guys have actually been in a protest crowd or riot?
I have. Several (a huge disarmament protest in Germany when I was a kid where they were chucking rocks into post housing and then blocking and rocking cars entering and leaving, the LA Riots, Riots at Cal-State and a mini one in Balch Springs Texas where an entire apt building and the residents of a few houses on either side came out and chucked bricks at our ambulance).

I've only had a gun during one of them (the LA Riots where I just carried a gun anyway in spite of not having a permit, in the other ones I was either too young or at work where my CHL doesn't cover it and where we're going in and out of the Federal prison at Seagoville, the city jails in Seagoville and Balch Springs, and a multitude of nursing homes and ER's and occasionally the airport), but I felt the most secure during that one even though it was the worst out of the four.

Since its become a threat both in the sense that some groups say that they're going to riot in order to get their way and because more large scale riots have happened recently than at any point since the 60's it's probably a good idea to prepare for them.

Especially since these days there's a pretty good chance that the cops have their hands from having Molotov cocktails, rocks and occasionally bullets tossed their way.
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