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  #26  
Old 10-24-2016, 04:26 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanca Busa View Post
Ok so now that we've all expressed our love and affection for our dogs and what we would be inclined to do does anyone care to actually research the legality of all these opinions to see if you'd be within your right to use deadly force on him?
In Florida the use of deadly force is justified if I fear great bodily harm or death for me or someone near me as if I witness it going down. But I don't think that transfers over to animals.
I would not argue that I was defending my animal, I would argue that someone committing violence on my property made me fear I was next, and I feared for my life.
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2016, 07:16 PM
MisterMills357 MisterMills357 is offline
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I would shoot the trespasser, without a word of warning. And I would shoot him until he stopped. And I would not over-think the matter either.
If I sound blunt, I am, since I have been violently attacked myself.

Last edited by MisterMills357; 10-25-2016 at 07:19 PM.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:26 PM
Articifer Articifer is offline
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I live in the country with two large dogs. They have their own fenced in yard and a very large dog door. If someone is in their yard fighting with them, I will assume the worst and defend my dogs. Any stranger willing to to walk into their yard is up to no good as far as I'm concerned.
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2016, 10:42 PM
Brian48 Brian48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911MILSPEC2015 View Post
....I would like to see some feedback ...on the defense of dogs.

the scenario...is a trespasser....having scaled a fence....has been intercepted..by the family dog..and when you see this...the trespasser is fighting with your dog...beating/kicking....using a weapon of some kind.

would you...how would you...come to the defense of your dog?
I would come to the defense of my dog with any means at hand. Key word is family here.
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  #30  
Old 10-25-2016, 11:30 PM
1911MILSPEC2015 1911MILSPEC2015 is offline
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dog

The comment that really did not set well, for the moderators on the other forum...was that in my defense for protecting my dogs..."that dead men tell no tales".....my position would have been..and will be...."after telling the man to stop attacking my dog...he turned his attack on me....and "I felt fear for my life"".....
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  #31  
Old 01-02-2017, 03:54 PM
okierider okierider is offline
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Originally Posted by CPTKILLER View Post
Hurt my Boxer and you will get hurt!
Amen to that !!!
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  #32  
Old 01-03-2017, 02:50 PM
RogueTS1 RogueTS1 is offline
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Wink

It all depends on how one describes the event to the authorities. If one is going to explain that they shot the intruder because he was hurting your dog, you might get into trouble.

If one simply explains they found the intruder trespassing and trying to kill your dog and that you tried to get him off your dog and he turned his evil intent towards you and that is when you were forced to shoot him because you were in fear for your life or great bodily harm.

Same for somebody stealing your tv. One does not have to let somebody steal their property. They have every right to try and stop them. In most states one can not start out shooting them, God bless the states that do allow this, but one can use reasonable force. When reasonable force does not work................... and in cases such as being discussed above, "They never do,"............. one is allowed to escalate the force which means shoot him. Problem solved.

"I tried to stop him from leaving the house with my tv/killing my dog and he turned on me saying he was going to kill me. I had no choice but to shoot." (VERBAGE man................VERBAGE.)
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Last edited by RogueTS1; 01-03-2017 at 02:52 PM.
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  #33  
Old 01-03-2017, 02:52 PM
boatdoc boatdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "colt45acp" View Post
The family dog should be kept inside the house not left outside alone in the yard, especially at night.
^^^this

as a family member, ur cats and dogs are only outside when being supervised. I cannot see them in our yard at night so they are in the house> I am the guard dog in the house--armed and ready
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  #34  
Old 01-03-2017, 02:56 PM
boatdoc boatdoc is offline
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Originally Posted by Vin63 View Post
I actually have some family experience with this scenario. I lived with my aunt and uncle (gunsmith) during the summers. Summer of 1975 in the afternoon their Akida was in the backyard for his potty break, and some guy happened to scale the side yard fence to break into the shed. The dog surprised the guy and was able to get him on the ground. My uncle (was armed), cousin, and I restrained the guy, and my aunt called the police. The bad part of the situation is that my uncle and aunt were sued for the physical damage (100+ stitches) and medical bills by the intruder. The homeowners insurance settled, but it was still a financial burden on my aunt and uncle.
our country has been ruined by these "injury liars(lawyers). I cannot fathom how an innocent victim(home owner) is now held responsible for the acts of a criminal

IN the UK and other sane counties( tongue in cheek when I say sane), you are NOT allowed to profit from a criminal act. when do we go so wrong

shakespeare was right about thos e liars(lawyers) IMHO
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  #35  
Old 01-03-2017, 02:57 PM
boatdoc boatdoc is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911MILSPEC2015 View Post
The comment that really did not set well, for the moderators on the other forum...was that in my defense for protecting my dogs..."that dead men tell no tales".....my position would have been..and will be...."after telling the man to stop attacking my dog...he turned his attack on me....and "I felt fear for my life"".....
bingo--not perfect but good enough---usually
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  #36  
Old 01-03-2017, 03:02 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatdoc View Post
^^^this

as a family member, ur cats and dogs are only outside when being supervised. I cannot see them in our yard at night so they are in the house> I am the guard dog in the house--armed and ready
Much depends on your environment and situation.... my dogs, by choice, generally stay outside at night. The yard contained with a 5', 3 rail fence with 2x4 wire field fencing, topped with electrified barbed wire. They're not going anywhere. There's a dog door in the kitchen door, they can come and go in the house as they please. They generally stay outside after we go to bed.

Anyone who's gotten over the fence has demonstrated hostile intent...
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  #37  
Old 01-03-2017, 07:34 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Funny how peoples preferred dogs vary so much.

I have to grin when Country describes how his dogs stay out at night by choice. Around where I live, my dog has snack written all over him. He thinks that he is tough. But if left out overnight, he will not be there in the morning.

With a name like Peanut though, you can guess that he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder. I think that my wife would get rid of me before she would get rid of him. We have had to keep a close eye on him though of late. Some of the smaller kids in the neighborhood have been coming up missing.
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  #38  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:51 PM
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Mike Chapman Mike Chapman is offline
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Quite a few years back when we were deer hunting with dogs one of the dogs cornered a deer in a mans yard and the guy came racing up in his truck and jumped out and told the owner of the dog that he would kill his dog if he ever caught him in his yard again. I remember the dog owner told him "Mr. you might get away with fooling with my wife, but, if touch my dog I will kill you. People get mighty touchy about their dogs an rightly cant blame them.
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  #39  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:45 PM
kwo51 kwo51 is offline
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3 people sent to hospital after trying to put a sweater on their bull dog. Steal what you want just don't dress the dog. This happened last weekend in St.Pete.
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  #40  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:38 AM
Razman11 Razman11 is offline
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If someone is attempting to hurt my dog it means that they are in my apartment trying to get Hooch to relax his grip on their neck. That's how mastiffs roll, and he's a real strong 75 lbs attached to a big head.

I love him! And castle doctrine would still apply.

Raz
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  #41  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:43 AM
Jack Ryan Jack Ryan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "colt45acp" View Post
The family dog should be kept inside the house not left outside alone in the yard, especially at night.
What's the point of having a dog if he's not out there doing his job at night between you and the fence?
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  #42  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:14 PM
ekaphoto ekaphoto is offline
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Lots of legal issues here and it varies from state to state.

First in most states you have to have a no trespassing sign on your property or verbally tell someone they are not allowed on your property before they are considered trespassing. Other wise you are legally in the wrong to sic your dog on them or attack them.

Second there is justified use of force be it a dog, gun fists or club, that goes for both sides and is a double edged sword. If a guy climes over the fence at midnight with a weapon you may be able to show intent. If he has no weapon he could claim he was just lost and looking for his house. Its not what you know but what you can prove in court.

Lets say you do have that.

Next lots of other factors. Was the guy coming over in the middle of the night, did he have a weapon. what was the reason ie he was fleeing from a kidnapper or from the cops. etc.

In short these general scinaros are what get people riled up and put out false or misleading information even with good intent. For instance what may be legal to shoot someone in TX may get you life in prison for murder in NY.

Last edited by ekaphoto; 01-11-2017 at 12:17 PM.
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  #43  
Old 01-11-2017, 01:26 PM
ACPete ACPete is offline
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By and large, the law views pets as property. But times are changing and our beloved pooches are gaining more rights. Interesting article here:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...itizen-canine/
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  #44  
Old 01-11-2017, 03:56 PM
kwo51 kwo51 is offline
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Doby we had years ago would allow you on the porch but not let you leave. Same dog great with people was home with us when our kids had a church group over . The boys all left at 11 pm and snuck back in . When I found them at 1230 they were up a tree in the front yard. Wish he were still here.
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  #45  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:18 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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This thread, and all the "outside dog" comments, reminded me of a funny experience I had;

I was called to a barricaded subject call at an abandoned commercial building and I had my K9 partner with me on the 1 side (front door). A K9 from a neighboring agency was also on scene and he covered the 2/3 corner. When I yelled my K9 announcements prior to deploying my dog, three dogs began to bark ferociously; mine, the allied agency dog on the back side, and a third dog from behind the fence on the 3 side, which was a Dutch Shepherd in a yard behind the business. After the scene was secured, I inquired to find out who the third dog was...it turned out to be a K9 from yet another allied agency, who had been left in his backyard.

So, it turned out we had three police dogs on scene, and only two handlers. The funny thing is that the Dutchy was a very no-nonsense, enthusiastic dog...if the suspect had bailed over that fence trying to get away from the two on-duty dogs, there would have been nobody to take that dog off. The bad guy would have been wearing him for a VERY long time.
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  #46  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:53 PM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is offline
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While my bird dogs are my family and I treat them so, the law is the law. Find out what it is where you live and abide by it. And if you don't intend to, don't post it on the damn internet for God's sake. They do indeed find these things during trials...trust me.
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  #47  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:58 PM
roaniecowpony roaniecowpony is offline
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Originally Posted by BoulderTroll View Post
This thread, and all the "outside dog" comments, reminded me of a funny experience I had;

I was called to a barricaded subject call at an abandoned commercial building and I had my K9 partner with me on the 1 side (front door). A K9 from a neighboring agency was also on scene and he covered the 2/3 corner. When I yelled my K9 announcements prior to deploying my dog, three dogs began to bark ferociously; mine, the allied agency dog on the back side, and a third dog from behind the fence on the 3 side, which was a Dutch Shepherd in a yard behind the business. After the scene was secured, I inquired to find out who the third dog was...it turned out to be a K9 from yet another allied agency, who had been left in his backyard.

So, it turned out we had three police dogs on scene, and only two handlers. The funny thing is that the Dutchy was a very no-nonsense, enthusiastic dog...if the suspect had bailed over that fence trying to get away from the two on-duty dogs, there would have been nobody to take that dog off. The bad guy would have been wearing him for a VERY long time.
Malinois? That's a smaller, leaner, meaner shepard, yeah?
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  #48  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:56 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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Originally Posted by roaniecowpony View Post
Malinois? That's a smaller, leaner, meaner shepard, yeah?
Haha, yes, and add "crazy" to your list.

My partner was a Malinois, which is a Belgian Shepherd, but the dog I was referring to was a Dutch Shepherd, or "Dutchy ", as they're nicknamed. Dutch Shepherds are very similar in size, build, and temperament to Mals, but they are brindle colored (tiger-striped).
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  #49  
Old 01-19-2017, 05:31 PM
mosteve mosteve is offline
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I've had dogs all my life, big, small, smart, dumbassed, all were loyal, I can remember three that would have given their life for me without doubt, all were members of my family in my heart. I believe a dogs job is to be a companion and a family member, not a neighborhood terror,but, a loyal guard and member of the pack (family), If you are hurting my dog, my friend, my family, of course I will hurt you back! As I expect my family would do for me.
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  #50  
Old 01-19-2017, 05:48 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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My last post was in just relaying a funny story, but on a serious note, folks need to keep in mind that a dog's life is not viewed equal to a human's, in either civil or criminal law. Trust me, I'm an animal lover, having trained four police dogs, one of which was my partner of 6 years and saved my bacon more than once. So I get the bond between owner and animal.

My point is that a judge or jury is not going to accept, "He shot my dog so I shot him". Lethal force is justified to defend your life or the life of another person from death or great bodily injury. Breaking into your house at midnight is not causing you death or great bodily injury, and shooting your dog is not causing you death or great bodily injury. Justifying lethal force requires articulating the reasons you made your decision. It will be a "totality of the circumstances". In other words, the events taken in isolation might not justify it, but combining them can paint a much more convincing picture. It just scares me when I read over-simplified statements like some folks here are posting...while we all agree with the sentiment, these kinds of statements can get you in a world of hurt in civil or criminal court.

If you were a jury, tell me which of the following two statements you'd be more happy hearing;

"He shot my dog, so I killed him"

... vs...

"My wife and I were sound asleep when glass shattered and someone broke into our house and shot our dog. I thought we were going to die. The guy had already proven his violent intent by killing our dog, and I thought he was going to kill us next." The difference between the two statements is that in the first example you are a vigilante, dishing out immediate justice for the death of a pet. In the second, you are appropriately defending yourself from a violent felon.
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Last edited by BoulderTroll; 01-19-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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