Run, Hide, Fight - Page 2 - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 06-30-2016, 03:59 PM
Mr. T Mr. T is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Yes, Run Hide Fight is fine. At least they have Fight in there.

But I'm not so keen, for myself, on the "me & Mine" philosophy of who worth defending & who's not.

I assume "me & mine" means ones self + immediate family? How about your life-long best buddy?

Is he "yours?' Or your valued co-workers? Do they warrant saving? How about the Temp Girl?

I disagree with the whole selective concept. My policy is to attempt to save ANY & ALL innocents, within my ability (& whatever balls I can muster)

& I'd rather perish trying, leave my wife & daughter alone, than to live another 50 years knowing I sat on my hands, armed, while others died.
I won't disagree with anyone's choice be it running, hiding, fighting, trying to save others, protecting their family, etc.... People react in all kinds of ways to events like this. Some freak out, some remain calm, some fight, some collapse in fear. Some say they will do this or that, etc... but may end up doing something different.
__________________
Mr. T
Be sure you're right, then go ahead!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:15 PM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 262
Run - to get the pistol that you should have been carrying.
Hide - your pistol until it is needed.
Fight - until you run out of ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:18 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,901
True. That's why mentioned "whatever balls I can muster"

Because even though I have performed well in some pretty dicey situations, I have not faced an Active Shooter.

Maybe I'd go Rambo, Or maybe curl up & suck my thumb. So, like everyone, I can only guess at what I would do. I recognize that truth.

And for that reason I roll my eyes a wee bit when people here speak of Shot Placement. Sure, Quigley, Aim for the left ventricle.
Reply With Quote
 
  #29  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:22 PM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
True. That's why mentioned "whatever balls I can muster"

Because even though I have performed well in some pretty dicey situations, I have not faced an Active Shooter.

Maybe I'd go Rambo, Or maybe curl up & suck my thumb. So, like everyone, I can only guess at what I would do. I recognize that truth.

And for that reason I roll my eyes a wee bit when people here speak of Shot Placement. Sure, Quigley, Aim for the left ventricle.
I aim for the base of the brain.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:42 PM
Berumen Berumen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Yes, Run Hide Fight is fine. At least they have Fight in there.

But I'm not so keen, for myself, on the "me & Mine" philosophy of who worth defending & who's not.

I assume "me & mine" means ones self + immediate family? How about your life-long best buddy?

Is he "yours?' Or your valued co-workers? Do they warrant saving? How about the Temp Girl?

I disagree with the whole selective concept. My policy is to attempt to save ANY & ALL innocents, within my ability (& whatever balls I can muster)

& I'd rather perish trying, leave my wife & daughter alone, than to live another 50 years knowing I sat on my hands, armed, while others died.
I respect your opinion, but disagree with it. When I was young I served our country in the US Navy and it was about my country. Now that I am older and out of the military I am responsible for myself and my family. I don't do what if's because you can go on and on forever with them. I have been fired on, I have been hit (though not in war zone, right here in our own US), and I understand how I react in that type of situation, unfortunately I have experienced it many times. I have limitations like any other, so I always think about my priorities before heading out because life has taught me that anything can happen at any time. Therefore, my focus will always be first and foremost on my family and I, and if others are helped along the way then so be it. I have three children who need their father and I plan on sticking around so I can look after them, because no one else is going to do it for me.

It's not about having balls, or being a good person, it's about making it out of a horrible situation. When the brass starts dropping and the rounds start flying, you would be surprised how quick your focus changes from everyone to just you and your loved ones, I am just being honest so people don't go around depending on everyone else to save them. They need to understand they are responsible for themselves and act accordingly by getting armed and getting trained.

If you want to carry concealed to save the world then have at it and good for you, but I am carrying concealed to protect my family and myself and that doesn't make me any less of a person for doing so.

Last edited by Berumen; 06-30-2016 at 04:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:15 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,901
Berumen---------- I understand & respect your perspective. You've earned that.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:25 PM
MountieFan16 MountieFan16 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 733
Run, Hide, Fight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broker50 View Post
Too old to run, too fat to hide, & neither are in my nature.........I may have one fight left in me, though.
You and I must be related.
__________________
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
The Left/Progressives sees it as an obstacle to be over-come.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-30-2016, 09:18 PM
3lbPull 3lbPull is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SE
Posts: 570
I'll RUN to my gun, HIDE behind cover and SHOOT (FIGHT) the first treat I see.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-30-2016, 09:22 PM
Broker50 Broker50 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3lbPull View Post
I'll RUN to my gun, HIDE behind cover and SHOOT (FIGHT) the first treat I see.
Isn't it funny how one little "h" can change everything??????
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-30-2016, 09:31 PM
kwo51 kwo51 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,085
Look for cover and friends with crew served weapons.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-30-2016, 10:21 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 14,531
This is a very good post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Yes, Run Hide Fight is fine. At least they have Fight in there.

But I'm not so keen, for myself, on the "me & Mine" philosophy of who worth defending & who's not.

I assume "me & mine" means ones self + immediate family? How about your life-long best buddy?

Is he "yours?' Or your valued co-workers? Do they warrant saving? How about the Temp Girl?

I disagree with the whole selective concept. My policy is to attempt to save ANY & ALL innocents, within my ability (& whatever balls I can muster)

& I'd rather perish trying, leave my wife & daughter alone, than to live another 50 years knowing I sat on my hands, armed, while others died.
I would have a very difficult time also. Walking away from people that I could potentially have helped. That is just not the way that I was raised. If I had to make a choice between saving the life of a stranger and that of a loved one. That would likely be the most difficult decision that I ever make. I really hope that I never find myself in this situation.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-30-2016, 10:34 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: da' 'BURGH
Age: 49
Posts: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwo51 View Post
Look for cover and friends with crew served weapons.
THAT would be me.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-06-2016, 02:29 PM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 262
Due to a leg nerve injury, I cannot run. I'm 6'0" and 230 lbs, so I can't hide very well. I guess that I would have to shoot my 12-ga Mossberg 500 shotgun and Glock 17 pistol until the threat was over.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-06-2016, 04:11 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,901
I was in my wife's private office in her company building. I showed her where she could climb from a chair onto a file cabinet & push her way into the hung ceiling., replacing the panel behind her. There's a spot above the wall in there where a small person (she's 97 pounds) could lay for awhile.

If a disgruntled employee kicked in her locked door, he would find an "empty" office.

I also told her to put her phone on SILENT when hiding.

She carries a Kimber Pepper Blaster too.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-06-2016, 08:51 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rural VA
Posts: 14,531
Well if it comes down to it.

If I have to kill someone to save my own life or someone else's. Then like it or not. I am prepared to do this. This is the last thing that I ever hope to have to do in my life. But I will do it if I have to.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-07-2016, 06:24 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Yes, Run Hide Fight is fine. At least they have Fight in there.

But I'm not so keen, for myself, on the "me & Mine" philosophy of who worth defending & who's not.

I assume "me & mine" means ones self + immediate family? How about your life-long best buddy?

Is he "yours?' Or your valued co-workers? Do they warrant saving? How about the Temp Girl?

I disagree with the whole selective concept. My policy is to attempt to save ANY & ALL innocents, within my ability (& whatever balls I can muster)

& I'd rather perish trying, leave my wife & daughter alone, than to live another 50 years knowing I sat on my hands, armed, while others died.
We disagree on this one... My FIRST, absolute duty is to my wife and daughter. Period, its not negotiable. EVERYTHING comes second to that duty.

It now becomes and exercise in risk management and mitigation. WHAT do I, at the moment in time, have the ability to do, what are the risks of that action, and what is the likelihood of a given endstate?

You asked the question "do they warrant saving" in reference to others that are not family... I'd ask the question 'are they worth dying for, abandoning your responsibilities as a husband and father for, destroying your family for, creating emotional and financial hardships for...?' There are varying degrees of response to this; its fundamental human psychology. How important others are to YOU depends upon your relationship with them; its a concentric concept. Immediate family is the center, relatives removed and very close long term friends are the next ring, other 'friends' are further from the center mass, then acquaintances, and finally strangers. Normal people don't break down and grieve when they read about a stranger dying; one would be in a constant state of grief and unable to function.

I know how I react to sudden, violent encounters; I've done it most of my adult life. That I'm alive today is the result of sound decision making and the grace of God. On the few occasions that I made poorer decisions (or had no other viable options), the result has generally been a trinket with a bronze "V" on it... In hindsight, a couple very bad choices, but with a successful outcome. I know, with absolute certainty, that others have lived or died based on my decisions and actions or lack thereof. My soul is prepared to answer to my Creator for every such decision I've made, every action I've taken, and every inaction. I sleep well knowing that I've done the best I could at the time, made the right calls, and balanced my duties by managing my risks.

There is no black and white, clear cut answer to the question of intervening or not. 6 ISIL morons on line with AKs blasting away in a mall, me and mine are a few feet from a side hall and exit- we're out, good luck... To engage is certain death, with little chance of significantly affecting the outcome. I have no obligation to die, and destroy my family in the process, for anyone else- particularly someone who CHOSE not to have the ability to protect themselves. On the flip side, one active shooter, facing away- easy shot in the back of the head, little risk, event over. Of course, there's an infinite number of permutations in between the extremes.

The very concept of a "policy", a pre conceived, pre planned idea of how to deal with such an event, by its very existence in your mind, has already biased your decision making towards action, leaving less room for cognitive analysis of the actual event, your actual abilities and capabilities (one of the adages of the SOF world is that "confidence does NOT equate to capability"), or the specific realities of the situation. Such bias leads to poor decisions...
__________________
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. ~Samuel Adams~

Last edited by wccountryboy; 07-07-2016 at 06:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-07-2016, 09:01 AM
Flyinrock1 Flyinrock1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
I would have a very difficult time also. Walking away from people that I could potentially have helped. That is just not the way that I was raised. If I had to make a choice between saving the life of a stranger and that of a loved one. That would likely be the most difficult decision that I ever make. I really hope that I never find myself in this situation.
Fun story relating to the subject. I was a basic flight simulator instructor for USAF in Del Rio TX. As the only USMC of the 60+ instructors who were mostly retired USAF 04-05-06, I didn't have much in common except for a couple of shooters who dropped by my cubicle from time to time. Then during an "active shooter" exercise, I noticed at least a half dozen instructors hanging out at my space. The place got locked down and it would have taken explosives to get into our area. I asked one of the shooters if he noticed it and he said yes. I asked why? And his reply left me laughing to this day ...... "You are a Marine and the only one who knows what in hell to do."
Semper Fi
RK
__________________
I am a pacifist trained in the arts of war to enforce my right to be a pacifist.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-07-2016, 09:10 AM
Flyinrock1 Flyinrock1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 335
As I have said in the past, I've been shot all to hell and I'll be damned if I'll let it happen again without going towards the shooter and kill him/her as quickly as possible. Not bravado or heroism. I refuse to let some a'hole shoot me and no response except to lay there and bleed to death.
Anyone who is shooting up a civilian place in obvious rage or whatever, is no longer allowed to live in my community and it is my responsibility to defend it. If a swarm of people overwhelm a shooter, some may get injured or killed but the shooter will be taken out and with any luck will be DRT.
I wonder at the fortitude of people these days and if they are living in fantasyland?
Semper Fi
RK
__________________
I am a pacifist trained in the arts of war to enforce my right to be a pacifist.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-07-2016, 09:45 AM
Cannibul Cannibul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North of Kaufman
Posts: 3,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinrock1 View Post
As I have said in the past, I've been shot all to hell and I'll be damned if I'll let it happen again without going towards the shooter and kill him/her as quickly as possible. Not bravado or heroism. I refuse to let some a'hole shoot me and no response except to lay there and bleed to death.
Anyone who is shooting up a civilian place in obvious rage or whatever, is no longer allowed to live in my community and it is my responsibility to defend it. If a swarm of people overwhelm a shooter, some may get injured or killed but the shooter will be taken out and with any luck will be DRT.
I wonder at the fortitude of people these days and if they are living in fantasyland?
Semper Fi
RK

Semper Fi!

Marines run to the sound of gunfire while mortals run from it.
__________________
Semper Fi. COTEP member. Blaming your phone for your misspelled words is the same as blaming your pistol for the misses.

You know what I find ridiculous? People who use the word ridiculous and can't spell it. Alot is NOT A WORD. A lot is the opposite of a little.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-07-2016, 12:33 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,901
The classic "two people are drowning" question. --------Whom do I save?

Sure, my wife or daughter gets saved first. I'm not totally without preference.

But it doesn't stop there. Once my kin is on the dock I'm going back in if there's any chance of rescuing another, stranger or not.

I really don't think there is much of an argument here.

Nobody in this forum is seeking a martyr's pointless death against insurmountable odds. But I don't think we have many guys who would flee when a chance to help presents itself.

Just some, Like me & USMM Guy, lean just a LITTLE more towards jumping into the fray.

But I think we all more or less agree on the basics.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-08-2016, 12:06 AM
higgy1911 higgy1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ky
Posts: 581
Running is awesome. I'm a huge fan of it. And with proper situational awareness you have a high likelihood of getting an opportunity to run before the threat has engaged.
I'll leave all that sheep dog BS to the border collies and Internet Commandos. I'll fight if it looks like the best option, but my goal is to get out of and avoid situations where fighting is the best option.
Personally I'm not a fan of hiding unless it is in ambush. I'm more geared to run, fight, hide as a general rule. But they're all tools in the toolbox to be used as circumstances dictate.
__________________
"The world's black and white, good and bad, no matter what you hear.
The people who say it isn't have already chosen black"
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-11-2016, 05:29 AM
excess3 excess3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 470
need specific advice on how to defense
against a robot.
and also driverless carbombs and truckbombs.

steel rope barriers
giant flower pots
rf jamming
gps jam

other
__________________
Bring enough gun.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-25-2016, 01:43 AM
desmodromic desmodromic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Manila Philippines aka wild west of asia
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrovold View Post
Our major medical company workplace safety (violence) training rolled out today with those words of wisdom and in that order.
In the event of a workplace violence incident:
Run- run away from the incident.
Hide - post your posterior in a locked room.
Fight - only as a last resort.

You must remember that the cafeteria prides itself on not caging the pork or giving the pigs antibiotics before they slaughter the little buggers and feed them to us. I guess they should have run away or gone into hiding.
Hmmmm . Running is very easy but there are so many times where in Pride gets in the way. If an Ego is bruised, the only thing that you will do is fight.

will it be called cowardly if you ran away? I am very concerned with what people would say behind my back. In high school I did not fight from a verbaly abusive bully and I regretted it. Although I choose to ran away, I really wanted to fight him.

Running is a good way to de escalate a situation but it is not a very brave thing to do, but it is the safest thing.

my mindset changed when I had kids, my number one priority is to be with them for as long as I can so now, Running away is not that bad of an option.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-25-2016, 07:18 AM
lantern2814 lantern2814 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Asheville,NC
Posts: 90
I look at it this way.

The rules make things easier for those looking to stop the aggression and are equipped and trained to do so. By training folks to remove themselves from the situation they eliminate several targets from the sight of the criminals while easing chances of collateral damage if those looking to defend themselves have to open fire. If the unarmed and defenseless refrain from fleeing the body count goes up almost every time IMO.


In other words. If you are armed and trained OR trained but unarmed these rules are not for you unless you decide not to engage the gunman/gunmen.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-25-2016, 09:35 AM
Blue Duck Blue Duck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 409
I got the chance to go to a company (run, hide, fight) offered by our local city police. I had heard about these before and was skeptical. But came away from it, enlightened somewhat.

I thought they did a pretty good job, outlining what might happen. And it's not that simple, and not in that order, necessarily. Even if you have a gun, it's tricky, but of course if I am at the the point of contact with the perp, then my first action if possible is to stop him decisively with my gun, or any other make shift weapon I can employ.

However, in my workplace, no one carries a gun on them, although I have a times, and we have rules against it but a large section of us, have one in our trucks, and I suppose it's possible that someone might have one stashed in their office, both against the rules but no one really enforces it.

So, lets say you retrieve your weapon from wherever and start looking for the bad guy. Some of us would probably do that, but it's very tricky, because maybe it's a co-worker that has gone nuts, but suppose you don't know yet who it is, and you run into another co-worker with a gun doing the same thing you are doing. Neither one of you knows who the bad guy is, and to compound this the cops will in our case, assuming they were called, be there in a very short time, and suppose they see you with your gun. It's getting dammed tricky, at best.

So, it really comes down to if you are at the point of contact, it's probably do or die, kill the SOB. But if you are not at the point of contact, then running or barricading yourself in is possibly the best option. In our town the cops said that they do not wait for back up, or SWAT, or a better plan, etc. the first to arrive on the scene goes in hot immediately. So, you have to keep that in mind.

They also suggested how to use makeshift weapons, and even suggested acquiring and catching better weapons in ones office if possible, if not a gun, then go buy a framing hammer, or baseball bat, etc. They also talked about hardening your office, ways of securing the doors, etc that make if more difficult to break in.

And of course escape routes are great. And of course, making that 911 call ASAP, but you don't call 911 if don't have time at first. Sometimes fighting is the immediate do or die first option, and you better give it your all, don't hold nothing back, because it is literally win or die at that point.
__________________
NRA Life Member, Endowment

Last edited by Blue Duck; 11-25-2016 at 09:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:17 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved