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  #26  
Old 05-22-2016, 10:32 AM
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AdamG247 AdamG247 is offline
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Aim for the Vitals. Double taps while moving backward to create space. Maintain distance between you and the target is the best answer. Running away is in all respects a proper tactic.

If the guy is big enough running would be my first choice.
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  #27  
Old 05-22-2016, 01:02 PM
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A large or obese individual will go down just as quickly as a smaller one if you shoot them center of mass. Extra fat or muscle doesn't make a person bullet proof. If you're trying to shoot them in the stomach where all their fat is located, then yeah there might be an issue, but you're not supposed to shoot them there.
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  #28  
Old 05-22-2016, 01:53 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
A large or obese individual will go down just as quickly as a smaller one if you shoot them center of mass. Extra fat or muscle doesn't make a person bullet proof. If you're trying to shoot them in the stomach where all their fat is located, then yeah there might be an issue, but you're not supposed to shoot them there.
There's a prevailing and Hollywoodesque misperception that big guys go down harder...most of the burly "tough guy" types I've met get by on using their size to intimidate others and they're generally all hat and no cattle.

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  #29  
Old 05-22-2016, 04:08 PM
SamlautRanger SamlautRanger is offline
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  #30  
Old 05-22-2016, 05:22 PM
green papaya green papaya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodadek View Post
There's a prevailing and Hollywoodesque misperception that big guys go down harder...most of the burly "tough guy" types I've met get by on using their size to intimidate others and they're generally all hat and no cattle.

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like the character in James Bond movies known as "JAWS"

he seems invincible? no fear of getting shot by Bond's puny Walther PPK .32 auto pistol.
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  #31  
Old 05-23-2016, 12:15 AM
JesseGPresley JesseGPresley is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
A large or obese individual will go down just as quickly as a smaller one if you shoot them center of mass.
What's the definition of "center of mass"? I've been told to aim for the triangle that is formed by the two nipples and aortic notch. I don't think that's what people mean by "center of mass".

This officer shot the assailant 5 times with a .357 Magnum. Bad guy lived.

Bad guy shoots officer 1 time with a .22LR. Officer dies.

Officer was a 6' tall former Marine. Bad guy was 5'7" 280 lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x4GYccVO8Y
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  #32  
Old 05-23-2016, 12:27 AM
7in1911 7in1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by JesseGPresley View Post
What's the definition of "center of mass"? I've been told to aim for the triangle that is formed by the two nipples and aortic notch. I don't think that's what people mean by "center of mass".

This officer shot the assailant 5 times with a .357 Magnum. Bad guy lived.

Bad guy shoots officer 1 time with a .22LR. Officer dies.

Officer was a 6' tall former Marine. Bad guy was 5'7" 280 lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x4GYccVO8Y
I think I saw this video a long time ago.

I believe the officer got shot under his arm, armpit area as he raised his arm to key his mic.
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  #33  
Old 05-23-2016, 11:07 AM
Slow bullet guy Slow bullet guy is online now
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I used to think about that stuff a lot. I don't really give it much thought anymore. I normally only carry 7rnds. If 5rnds don't do me any justice with a street thug, I don't know that my odds look too good on the next 2rnds either. You can't be prepared for every situation, but you can be prepared for the likely situations. Even fat guys tend to stop harassing folks when someone shoots at them. Practice will be the best factor in taking down any bad guy, yet it is one of the most neglected aspects of defensive carry. You can't change the fortitude of the badguy, but you can improve yourself. Practice practice and practice. The fat guy won't look nearly as intimidating if you practice.
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  #34  
Old 05-24-2016, 06:23 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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Bigger guys and self defense....

If a big guy out weighs you by 100 lbs. or more, the first rule is to not let him get too close.... it is very difficult to fight on the ground with a much heavier/larger threat that may be trying to kill you.

If a "big guy" is coming toward you with a knife in his hand, don't let him get within 25 ft and shoot to kill if he gets within 25 ft. Most adversaries with a knife will not move toward you once they see an armed citizen with a gun pointed at them......

If a "big guy" surprises you, if you are able, running away is not a bad option. The goal is to create enough "time and distance" that may allow you to draw your concealed weapon and defend yourself. If a person is physically unable to run, I would start practicing to increase the speed of drawing and presenting your concealed carry weapon using a cover garment. Good situational awareness may prevent the majority of self defense confrontations, however, speed and accuracy with the first shot may save your life if you have no other option. Always continue shooting follow up shots until the threat is stopped!
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  #35  
Old 05-24-2016, 02:34 PM
pete177 pete177 is offline
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That officer made so many foolish mistakes I don't even know where to begin. 7 yard or less gun fight requires a head shot if you can't get to cover. Note the officer had a bullet in his aorta and still had enough time to empty his gun into the assailant and probably could have reloaded and done it again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseGPresley View Post
What's the definition of "center of mass"? I've been told to aim for the triangle that is formed by the two nipples and aortic notch. I don't think that's what people mean by "center of mass".

This officer shot the assailant 5 times with a .357 Magnum. Bad guy lived.

Bad guy shoots officer 1 time with a .22LR. Officer dies.

Officer was a 6' tall former Marine. Bad guy was 5'7" 280 lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x4GYccVO8Y
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  #36  
Old 05-25-2016, 11:02 AM
notdumasilook notdumasilook is offline
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big fat guy wanting to do me harm?? .. heck Id probably just run. Doubt he can catch me )
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  #37  
Old 05-25-2016, 04:06 PM
toodeepsam toodeepsam is offline
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Move to Asia. I understand there's no fat people there. Particularly women.

Wait....I've never had a big guy want a piece of me...always some smart aleck skinny dude that thought he was tough and wanted to show off in front of his friends or a girl.
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  #38  
Old 05-26-2016, 01:37 AM
harrygunner harrygunner is offline
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I've seen bangers bigger that the guy in that video, in southern California. And I'll never forget one gang member I saw in Phoenix. They all had me being OK that I carry heavy 10mm ammo.


BTW, we all know, perhaps subconsciously, where the "center of mass" is on a human. Think of where you'd place your hand if you were to hold your kid above your head with one hand. The center of mass of most humans is near their pelvis and not where we're trained to shoot.
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  #39  
Old 05-26-2016, 12:06 PM
evets5321 evets5321 is offline
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Just do a speed reload and keep shooting
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  #40  
Old 05-26-2016, 07:16 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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My personal preference is to run away screaming like a little girl as I fire blindly over my shoulder as a leviathan of a man bears down on me like the looming spectre of death.
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  #41  
Old 05-26-2016, 07:28 PM
The Stank The Stank is online now
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^^Did you steal my playbook?
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  #42  
Old 05-26-2016, 07:31 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Sir, I wrote the wannabe operators handbook and then burnt the original manuscript in a volcano...right after I went to the range fired single shots, went to the low ready, scanned for targets, and then shot again in multicams just so everyone would know I was tacticool.
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One man with courage makes a majority. Andrew Jackson

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  #43  
Old 05-26-2016, 07:41 PM
Blanca Busa Blanca Busa is offline
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Definitely want to let them advance toward you. I wouldn't initiate or provoke anything with somebody larger than myself.

Act like a lamb while the lion cometh.....
And then slay him with your steel.....




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  #44  
Old 05-26-2016, 07:49 PM
The Stank The Stank is online now
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Originally Posted by Kodadek View Post
Sir, I wrote the wannabe operators handbook and then burnt the original manuscript in a volcano...right after I went to the range fired single shots, went to the low ready, scanned for targets, and then shot again in multicams just so everyone would know I was tacticool.
Just remember, when you scan you want to keep your pistol pointed to the front while you do an exaggerated look left, look right, look left, look right, look left, look right...because eyes, body, weapon is for suckers.
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  #45  
Old 05-26-2016, 09:55 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Just remember, when you scan you want to keep your pistol pointed to the front while you do an exaggerated look left, look right, look left, look right, look left, look right...because eyes, body, weapon is for suckers.
Absolutely. It's all about theatrics so folks know I own Magpul dvds.
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One man with courage makes a majority. Andrew Jackson

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  #46  
Old 05-27-2016, 10:11 AM
The Stank The Stank is online now
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People definitely overthink this stuff, lol.
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  #47  
Old 05-27-2016, 04:16 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Next to David vs Goliath, the most classic mismatch of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FguXuJOiEk0
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  #48  
Old 05-27-2016, 04:22 PM
Dreadnought Dreadnought is offline
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Run about 50 yards, assailant dies of heart attack, winning.

Carry a decoy doughnut, throw it one direction and run the other, also winning.
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  #49  
Old 05-27-2016, 05:38 PM
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As a beginning: One is under unlawful attack, one has utilized all other means of avoiding the conflict (a sweet smile, offer to buy the attacker a beer, running) and they have failed. The only option left is potentially lethal force.

I see two different problems; one is 'large person', the other is 'obese person'. They are NOT the same. One - even me with my bad knees - might outrun an obese person, but probably not a body builder sort.

However, there are some similarities. Heavy muscles and much fat both form resistance to penetration, by either bullets or bladed weapons. I suggest such a case is not the time to be concerned about 'over penetration'.

A body builder sort may have fairly well developed muscles over his upper torso. A proper round will still penetrate to the 'vitals'; in dog-years, the heart, major arteries and lungs. An obese person will typically have more fat deposits underneath the muscles - as wasted as they may be - and also between the ribcage and the 'vitals'. Surface wounds on either can be painful, but not guaranteed to discourage the attacker.

Neither muscle nor fat provides much armor in the head. However, if the handgun chosen will not reliably penetrate a skull, this is futile.

One also notes a massively obese person presents a big target, but not all of it worth scoring. Putting a round through the 'spare tire' along the sides of the body is a 'hit', but mostly likely will not effect the attacker much.

So. Nothing is guaranteed. The best defense is pretty much like always; damage to the central nervous system or heart. The heart is not instantaneous; the shootee has to run out of blood supply to the body, more or less. Clip the spinal nerve column and generally the show is over. And yes, there have been cases where a small projectile has struck the spine and not done any damage. Nothing guaranteed.

Carry a sidearm with adequate penetration. Learn to shoot it well. Perhaps not at extended ranges - won't hurt any if you do - but with only one hand (you may have the other hand tied up with fending off the attacker, pushing your kid to safety, wrapped up in a cast from your ladder session last week).

Do a bit of anatomical study. Ascertain where the medulla oblongata is - from the front. (Kudos for pointing that out.) Ascertain the location of the heart, not where you think it might be. Find out and decide for yourself where the best chance of ending the aggression should be. Be able to hit that part from all angles.

Prayer - before the need - is probably not a bad idea, either.
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  #50  
Old 05-27-2016, 06:26 PM
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