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  #1  
Old 10-09-2011, 06:35 PM
log man log man is offline
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TR Trigger Job

I recently acquired a set of Chuck Warner's TR Sear Jig. TR being true radius. This is a concept for stoning the sear to the radius it pivots on and produces the only true neutral sear. When the sear is prepped as per the original specs it is actually slightly negative, and can also be angled to be positive. Much discussion has been done over this, and the radius idea has been discussed. Chuck Warner did something about it, and is producing center-less ground O-1 discs of the exact size, and hole needed to sandwich a sear, and stone it to match the radius.

The hammer prep is important as well and a huge variety of trigger pull feels and weights can be had. I started with a Nowlin hammer with .020"hooks, leveled in the manual way of stoning with a feeler gauge on the flat. The face of the hooks was also stoned and the tips given a slight radius. You can think of it as dulling the tips slightly.

The first thing I do with a new sear is lay it on it's side's on 1000 grit paper on a flat surface and do a figure 8, 4 or 5 times to remove any burrs and smooth the surface.



Here's the fixture discs and sear and sear pin.



I assembled them as per the directions that come with them. You use the sear pin to hold the sear between the discs and clamp in a smooth faced vise. The sear pin head isn't quite flush with the discs so when clamped it is held securely and can't turn when stoning.



A great hint in the directions is to draw a line with a felt tip pen across the discs and sear nose. This will give an indication of your progress when stoning down to the discs.



I had about a .001" or so of sear to profile so started with a fine India stone, and went just till I could see by the ink I was close.



A few strokes later and you can see the progress.



At this point I switched to the white ceramic stone to polish.



You will also stone/polish the discs, but is of very little consequence for future use. I think you could probably do 100 sears without appreciable wear.



You will notice a slight irregular escape edge until you stone a relief angle. This can be just a few strokes to straighten the edge, or 30% or more to shorten the pull.



At this point I assembled the sear with the nose inked, the hammer, and dry fired a few times to check contact.



Further stoning of the hooks can increase equal contact, but this only took about 10-15 minutes, and the pull is very nice and clean. More in depth tuning can be done, but this is a very impressive pull for the first time through. Smooth, and clean!

LOG
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2011, 06:46 PM
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alright, I have GOT to get me one of these setups. I'm giving chuck a call.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2011, 08:33 PM
herd48 herd48 is offline
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Very nice tool, and equally nice demo.thank you.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2011, 08:41 PM
Mark Avery Mark Avery is offline
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Thanks for taking the time to share. I know Chuck put a lot of effort into this; definitely looks like a better mousetrap to me.

Regards, Mark
  #5  
Old 10-09-2011, 08:55 PM
CWarner CWarner is offline
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Log,
Thanks for the demo. You did a better job than I could. This tool and the sears are the culmination of a rather lengthy thread by some of the best minds in the business. Here..
http://www.1911pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=277

This thread explains in detail the birth of this tool...lol.
Its about the best thread I have ever had the pleasure of reading on sears and hammers...

Incidently, My website will be back up tonight or tomorrow.


CW
  #6  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:46 PM
ssn vet ssn vet is offline
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Chuck put a TR on my BHP sear and the result was a huge improvement. Really transformed the pistol from somewhat of a disappointment into one of my favorite shooters.

Question for you Log, how high is you're shim stack when cutting the relief angle?
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:55 PM
log man log man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssn vet View Post
Chuck put a TR on my BHP sear and the result was a huge improvement. Really transformed the pistol from somewhat of a disappointment into one of my favorite shooters.

Question for you Log, how high is you're shim stack when cutting the relief angle?
Should of mentioned that, I skewed them to show, .040", two .020's. the point of relief, is to lessen engagement, and too much angle allows most sears to rotate in more.

LOG
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2011, 10:38 PM
staysafe staysafe is offline
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Chuck cut a TR sear for me in an 80 series Colt.......works like a charm.
  #9  
Old 10-10-2011, 08:00 AM
Irishlad Irishlad is offline
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Great tutorial.

And, great new Jig...

Seems much easier to use then the standard hand style jigs.

In fact, it appears the only way to "screw it up" is if you stone the sear down down to the jig before you switch to a finer stone/polish.

Is that correct?
  #10  
Old 10-10-2011, 09:13 AM
chuck45 chuck45 is offline
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Is it possible to get to a 2lb trigger with this set up? My guns are used for USPSA competition and it takes alot of trial and error to get to pulls this low and still be safe. If this jig will do it , it might be a real time saver.
  #11  
Old 10-10-2011, 11:34 AM
log man log man is offline
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Originally Posted by chuck45 View Post
Is it possible to get to a 2lb trigger with this set up? My guns are used for USPSA competition and it takes alot of trial and error to get to pulls this low and still be safe. If this jig will do it , it might be a real time saver.
Absolutely.

LOG
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2011, 01:11 PM
StrikerDown StrikerDown is offline
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A couple weeks ago I used my newly acquired TR-Jig on the original sear of my DW C-Bob, the trigger measured a decent 3.5 # before. Fairly good trigger for a factory job. After radiusing the sear, cutting the secondary and polishing the hammer hooks. Reassembled the gun and the pull went to 2.25#! I can't say it is a smooth trigger it just gets to 2.25 lb and breaks. I re-tensioned the sear spring to bump it closer to 3#. This is the best trigger I've done and it was so simple. Glass rod good!

Note: the sear in my C-Bob was marginal in length as it just barely took the radius across the face. Some other or new sears will most likely be longer like the one Log did above. I was lucky being that the sear didn't require hardly any metal to be removed and the TS fit was not affected.

Chuck has stated somewhere that he has found a few sear manufacturers that have a more suitable length for this mod than others. Some are too short to work with this jig.

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  #13  
Old 10-11-2011, 03:24 AM
Ben H Ben H is offline
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Chuck & Log:

I see Log cut his sear relief after he stoned the radius in the jig. Does this remove some of the radius when the relief is cut? Just trying to wrap my head around the whole process.

Thanks for the outstanding tutorial!

Ben H
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2011, 10:10 AM
CWarner CWarner is offline
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It does, but no more than a traditional stoning procedure. It appears as more because of the radius surface.
Logs technique for re cutting the Relief seems to be the simplest and best.

CW
  #15  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:47 AM
log man log man is offline
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Remember the relief angle establishes how much engagement you want and a straight escape edge. On this example I only took a few strokes to straighten the edge and try it. The relief cut is not a contact surface and can does not need to be polished, but can be.

I suppose when using the fixture you could over cut with the fine stone, before going to the ultra fine ceramic, but would take some doing.

LOG
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2011, 03:24 PM
Lord_of_1911 Lord_of_1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by log man View Post
Should of mentioned that, I skewed them to show, .040", two .020's. the point of relief, is to lessen engagement, and too much angle allows most sears to rotate in more.

LOG
Yeah I wanted to ask that also because I can see two shims. Can you elaborate of the reasoning behind that? I guess that it's changing the angle of the relief cut on the back side.
  #17  
Old 10-11-2011, 04:03 PM
log man log man is offline
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Originally Posted by Lord_of_1911 View Post
Yeah I wanted to ask that also because I can see two shims. Can you elaborate of the reasoning behind that? I guess that it's changing the angle of the relief cut on the back side.
Yes, a relief cut is just that and the angle that is cut doesn't matter as it is a non-contact surface. However the steeper it is the more the sear will rotate in to the hammer hooks. The point of the relief is to limit engagement. So a more shallow angle doesn't allow it to do that as much, and accomplishes the intent with less.

LOG
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2011, 04:37 PM
Lord_of_1911 Lord_of_1911 is offline
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I wondered because i've got the relief cut on my two sears but with the .020 shim...just curious.
  #19  
Old 10-12-2011, 10:51 AM
chuck45 chuck45 is offline
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releif cut

I think I remember someones post on this forum not too long ago that mentioned in order to get a 45 degree relief cut you would need a 1/8 shim. I tried it and it worked rather well. You still get the relief but the nose does not go into the hooks. If there is any creep I raised the sear a little in the jig and took a little more off the primary surface.
  #20  
Old 10-12-2011, 01:54 PM
htony1 htony1 is offline
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One of these is most definately on my short list, thanks Chuck & Log. What is particularly cool to me is that the information / insight here used to take many attemps to achieve, and usually a long time to learn it.
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  #21  
Old 10-12-2011, 04:58 PM
chuck45 chuck45 is offline
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I have one question on stoning the hammer hooks. Is there a trick to stoning one side. In Log mans picture it looks like a little more could be taken off the left side in order to have a little more engagement on the right side. In the past I have just put a little more pressure on the side of the sear that needed to be lowered. With this new jig you would have to do the hammer hook that was high. How do you do just one hammer hook by hand? It is so small, I have done both hooks with a hammer file but you are dragging across both sides at once, with one you can barely get started.
  #22  
Old 10-12-2011, 05:12 PM
log man log man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck45 View Post
I have one question on stoning the hammer hooks. Is there a trick to stoning one side. In Log mans picture it looks like a little more could be taken off the left side in order to have a little more engagement on the right side. In the past I have just put a little more pressure on the side of the sear that needed to be lowered. With this new jig you would have to do the hammer hook that was high. How do you do just one hammer hook by hand? It is so small, I have done both hooks with a hammer file but you are dragging across both sides at once, with one you can barely get started.
Same, just bear on the hook that contacts more.

LOG
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  #23  
Old 03-24-2012, 10:03 PM
lilricky2 lilricky2 is offline
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I have been using the Brown jig forever, it seems. This is an issue I have wondered about for some time as I have set mine up to do a slightly negative cut. Looks like Chuck has come up with a well thought out solution. I would like to give it a try. My question is, after looking on his sight for ordering information, I can't find any. Do you have to call it in? Hate to pull him away from the shop to answer the phone.

Rick
  #24  
Old 03-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Martensite Martensite is offline
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Just PM him. He'll tell you to send a check or money order for $66. His website isn't set up to take credit cards...yet.
  #25  
Old 03-24-2012, 11:20 PM
lilricky2 lilricky2 is offline
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Thanks, very useful information.

Rick
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