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  #1  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:16 AM
Akg1911 Akg1911 is offline
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3 suicide bombers in Surabaya Church, Indonesia

Just before leaving for church this morning i posted a pic jokingly asking my buddy in Vegas, whos a 3gun champion which gun to bring to church, about an hour during service, i received a message from friends that there was a church suicide bombing in our neighboring city, Surabaya.

It followed by 2 more, 1 was a larger fitted inside a car. As of right now there are around 4 people dead, most are the bombers themselves.

Talk about disaster preparedness, i can gurantee you i am 1000% prepared, when those people shows up in my church, their names are engraved in my ammo.

Pissed!
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:12 AM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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Sorry about your troubles there. My condolences. Suicide bombers are going to be really tough to defend against. It is difficult to identify them if they are blending in. If you do identify them then they push the button. I wish you all the best in your efforts to protect yourself and others.
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Old 05-13-2018, 12:33 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Old 05-13-2018, 12:36 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Akg prayers for your safety.
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:31 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44100278

"Police chief Tito Karnavian said the family belonged to an Indonesian IS-inspired network, Jemaah Ansharut Daulah (JAD)."

Appears an entire family ... Rather obvious beliefs, without need for bringing the "Politically Correct" types into the picture. It is what it is; even when others say it's not. And kudos to those, of any peaceful beliefs, with courage to call it for what it is, doing so without ignoring the obvious, and attempting to stop such evil. Evil ideologies and those who adhere to them need not be addressed with political correctness ... and, by the same token, those of peaceful beliefs (inclusive of diverse beliefs), should join together in actively opposing and denouncing the evil, not attempting to whitewash its source(s).
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:44 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44100278

Appears an entire family ... Rather obvious beliefs, without need for bringing the "Politically Correct" types into the picture. It is what it is; nuff said.
Let's put it this way.
The majority of terrorists/suicide bombers (if not all) are Muslim.
But not all Muslims are terrorists.
I'm sure you've heard that before?

Is it both disturbing and quite sad they used young children this time as well.

But I will say again and as many times as I have to that my father is Syrian.
I AM 50% Syrian yet raised as a Christian by his own hands and of my own choice. At no point in time did he force anything on me. His family has lived in Syria for over 500 years. NONE, not a single one believe or have ever followed this kind of craziness or radicalism.

If you want to say a family of apparently crazy Muslims attacked churches today in Indonesia that's fine and fact.
But if you paint with a broad brush that all think and believe the same and want nothing but to chop your or my heads off than I will dispute that every time.

I will and always will finish with the fact that while you and I are posting from the comfort of our homes more Muslims than any other race or religion are fighting Islamic terrorists at this very minute worldwide.
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:50 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Originally Posted by chrysanthemum View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44100278

"Police chief Tito Karnavian said the family belonged to an Indonesian IS-inspired network, Jemaah Ansharut Daulah (JAD)."

Appears an entire family ... Rather obvious beliefs, without need for bringing the "Politically Correct" types into the picture. It is what it is; even when others say it's not. And kudos to those, of any peaceful beliefs, with courage to call it for what it is, doing so without ignoring the obvious, and attempting to stop such evil.
The article also says the father recently returned from Syria. Which is where he himself was most likely indoctrinated or converted to the radical side of things.
His wife as they sometimes do may have had same radical beliefs or sympathies. But no I don't think or believe two girls as young as they are had any 'beliefs' or true understanding of anything other than just wanting to be girls and play with their friends. So sure, while an entire family seems to be behind the plot it's not obvious to me that the children had any real doing in it other than being live pawns that were sacrificed.

The whole thing is sick and sad. Sorry but things like this get me wound up because I've known, met and worked with so many good people who were Muslims worldwide throughout my years. It's not just black and white.
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:36 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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'Mohammedans' is not even a word.
Really? Since when.
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:48 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Let's put it this way.
The majority of terrorists/suicide bombers (if not all) are Muslim.
But not all Muslims are terrorists.
I'm sure you've heard that before?

Is it both disturbing and quite sad they used young children this time as well.

But I will say again and as many times as I have to that my father is Syrian.
I AM 50% Syrian yet raised as a Christian by his own hands and of my own choice. At no point in time did he force anything on me. His family has lived in Syria for over 500 years. NONE, not a single one believe or have ever followed this kind of craziness or radicalism.

If you want to say a family of apparently crazy Muslims attacked churches today in Indonesia that's fine and fact.
But if you paint with a broad brush that all think and believe the same and want nothing but to chop your or my heads off than I will dispute that every time.

I will and always will finish with the fact that while you and I are posting from the comfort of our homes more Muslims than any other race or religion are fighting Islamic terrorists at this very minute worldwide.
No disagreement, my friend, on any of these points. My past career travels included visits in predominantly Islamic countries.

My only disagreements are with specific evil persons and their specific ideology. And with those who attempt to whitewash the ideology by ignoring it in a misguided pursuit of political correctness or a misguided pursuit of steering attention away from the ideology (e.g., prefering instead to blame firearms or random chance). I do not believe in throwing others -- those inclined toward decency -- "under the bus" by some type of association...yes, this must be guarded against; but by dealing with the reality of a subset of evil; not ignoring the subset for fear of offending someone who prefers to ignore the reality of an evil subset. And my sentiments are the same toward vile actors who claim some/any other "religious basis" for their actions. It -- all evil ideologies -- needs to be called out and condemned.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 05-13-2018 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:28 PM
Akg1911 Akg1911 is offline
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Attached is the pic of the bomber which look like the typical normal Indonesian family . Sad thing is indonesian traditional attire do not look like that, its only recently that many indonesian is starting to follow the muslim attire and abandoning their authentic culture.

Right/left wing, or liberal/conservative do not really exist in this part of the world, most indonesians are generally very moderate and friendly muslims, i am a chinese descent christian indonesian, a minority. We all get along quite fine, even some who i know harness a very fanatic beliefs of extreme Islam, still hang around and act quite friendly to most of us.

This bombing was sparked by a few serious incidents that include a prison riot that housed terrorists convicts, 5 police were excecuted with their throat cut (ISIS style), it sort of a signal to the sleeper cell to start their action.

Something like that
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:36 PM
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Akg,

Would you tell us about gun laws in Indonesia? Who can own guns and who can carry guns?
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:49 PM
Akg1911 Akg1911 is offline
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Civilians are allowed to own and carry, but they are EXTREMELY expensive, i started a thread with the specifics

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=942313

Illegal guns do exist but are separated into 2 types, 1st is hobbyists amongst the enthusiasts, which have never been proven to be used in any criminal activities, and 2nd, those that are crudely homemade or imported from the Phillipines (used by criminals and terrorists).

Considering the price we have to pay for a firearms, i can safely say we are the TRUE gun guy, not all of us are rich enough to afford them as they are, some actually save alot just to own 1.


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Akg,

Would you tell us about gun laws in Indonesia? Who can own guns and who can carry guns?
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:59 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Seems like even in a well armed society with plenty of folks carrying a situation like this would be hard if not impossible to stop? After all who's gonna suspect a young girl is wearing explosives? And even if discovered who here can say they'd shoot a girl as young as that? Man that would be a really tough situation to get stuck in.
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Old 05-13-2018, 08:16 PM
Akg1911 Akg1911 is offline
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Exactly
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Old 05-13-2018, 08:17 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Seems like even in a well armed society with plenty of folks carrying a situation like this would be hard if not impossible to stop? After all who's gonna suspect a young girl is wearing explosives? And even if discovered who here can say they'd shoot a girl as young as that? Many that would be a really tough situation to get stuck in.
Yep. Those in the U.S. who blame firearms for "mass murders" should, in one way of looking at this, be glad that bad actors in the U.S. have generally "failed" to grasp the destructive power of explosives... and instead used "only" firearms.

The problem is always the bad actor and whatever ideology or defective thinking, including mental illness, propels the bad actor. If these bad actors were somehow denied access to firearms, then they might well choose an even more destructive method.
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Old 05-13-2018, 08:49 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
Seems like even in a well armed society with plenty of folks carrying a situation like this would be hard if not impossible to stop? After all who's gonna suspect a young girl is wearing explosives? And even if discovered who here can say they'd shoot a girl as young as that? Man that would be a really tough situation to get stuck in.
Not to sound cold or insensitive but if the threat is real then it simply becomes an issue of eliminating the target in my mind. Flip the swtich so to speak, when it's a lethal situation your targets are just that, targets and not people.

As far as I see it if you intend and attempt to kill another person you are choosing to give up your right to live. Yes in this situation it is more complicated after the fact since I am sure the girl was not fully aware of what she was being manipulated into doing and it 100% is extremely sad and horrible but in this instance she was still trying to/being used to kill others and that makes her a lethal threat.

Let the shock of what happened occur after the incident is over, not freeze you during it.
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:02 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Not to sound cold or insensitive but if the threat is real then it simply becomes an issue of eliminating the target in my mind. Flip the swtich so to speak, when it's a lethal situation your targets are just that, targets and not people.

As far as I see it if you intend and attempt to kill another person you are choosing to give up your right to live. Yes in this situation it is more complicated after the fact since I am sure the girl was not fully aware of what she was being manipulated into doing and it 100% is extremely sad and horrible but in this instance she was still trying to/being used to kill others and that makes her a lethal threat.

Let the shock of what happened occur after the incident is over, not freeze you during it.
Without knowing enough to know is it possible the bomb was strapped onto her without her really knowing what it was, she was sent into the church and then the bomb set off remotely by an adult?
She may have had no clue as to her imminent demise.
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Akg1911 View Post
Civilians are allowed to own and carry, but they are EXTREMELY expensive, i started a thread with the specifics

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=942313

Illegal guns do exist but are separated into 2 types, 1st is hobbyists amongst the enthusiasts, which have never been proven to be used in any criminal activities, and 2nd, those that are crudely homemade or imported from the Phillipines (used by criminals and terrorists).

Considering the price we have to pay for a firearms, i can safely say we are the TRUE gun guy, not all of us are rich enough to afford them as they are, some actually save alot just to own 1.
Akg,

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of your other thread. It's very interesting and confirm similar stories I heard from countries in the same region as you.

You must be pretty well off
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:05 PM
Akg1911 Akg1911 is offline
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We have had "ISIS" wifi spotted in our church a while ago, for a period of a few months, mind you my church is huge, so its impossible to know whose hotspot is that. I have been mentally prepared in the case of a mass shooter announcing their arrival, i have prepared myself...i guess.

Carrying gun to church isnt exactly common practice here, especially when youre on stage and part of the worship team However i have never consider when a suicide bomber scenario, even if it somehow failed to detonate, and the bombers was a kid, i dont know if i would be able to shoot.
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:08 PM
Akg1911 Akg1911 is offline
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Akg,


You must be pretty well off
I bought it with my son's 5 years tuition LOL.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:13 PM
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Using children and women for suicide bombing attacks is pretty common. They actually prey on the conscience of the guards to not shoot them or to hesitate for too long. It looks like the woman used that to her advantage as she pushed past the guards to get into the church.

But it is a really difficult choice to make to shoot women bombers or children bombers. The military has debated that problem for decades ever since the Vietnam War.

Fox News has reported on it now too
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05...cial-says.html
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:34 PM
Akg1911 Akg1911 is offline
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Since the time i posted this thread of the church bombing, we've had 1 bombing in Surabaya Police staion, 1 grenade thrown into a church which didnt detonate in jakarta, 1 bom accidentally exploded in 1 of the terrorist house during preparation.

All are female suicide bombers.

Last edited by Akg1911; 05-13-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:37 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Originally Posted by Akg1911 View Post
Since the time i posted this thread of the church bombing, we've had 1 bombing in Surabaya Police staion, 1 grenade thrown into a church which didnt detonate in jakarta, 1 bombing in surabaya port, 1 bom accidentally exploded in 1 of the terrorist house during preparation.

All are female suicide bombers.
Good grief.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:41 AM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Akv1911, THANK YOU so much for sharing all of these experiences.

Our media doesn't inform us too well of what really goes on in the world.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:52 AM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Akv1911, THANK YOU so much for sharing all of these experiences.

Our media doesn't inform us too well of what really goes on in the world.
If you watch some foreign news services they are covering it.
I have a box connected to my tv that gets news channels as well as other stuff from all over the world and broadcasts many in English. CNN has CNN Intl which isn't carried by many cable/satellites services here and they covered it this morning.
We get a watered down domestic only coverage of worldwide events on the mainstream media mostly. It sucks.
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