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  #26  
Old 05-14-2018, 11:56 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is online now
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Originally Posted by Harrish View Post
The Brent you speak of was the Head of the Colt Custom Shop. He is now working for a new firearm manufacturer outfit. Can't recall who at the moment.


Thanks for the info... I thought he was the Hefe of the CCS. I couldn’t remember for sure.

Brent is a great guy. Really made the whole custom pistol purchase a joy. I am sure he is top of his game wherever he landed. I wish him well.


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  #27  
Old 05-14-2018, 05:33 PM
retsgt retsgt is offline
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I just picked up the series 70 Government Model. Similar to yours, but steel arched MSH. I shot it last week and I am pleased with it. I plan on keeping it bone stock. I did however switch out the stocks with some full checkered walnut 70 type with the gold medallions. I would like to know where you got the nice stags?
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  #28  
Old 05-14-2018, 05:37 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by retsgt View Post
I just picked up the series 70 Government Model. Similar to yours, but steel arched MSH. I shot it last week and I am pleased with it. I plan on keeping it bone stock. I did however switch out the stocks with some full checkered walnut 70 type with the gold medallions. I would like to know where you got the nice stags?
I am honestly not able to tell you, my dad literally just said "oh that colt of yours would look nice with stag grips, I have a set here" and then proceeded to hand me those. He just kinda summoned them out of thin air since apparently he just had them laying around.
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  #29  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:52 AM
Colt191145 Colt191145 is offline
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Very good review, excellent photos. First I will say that for most shooters Colt offers a good value for the money vs. many of the other 1911 manufacturers. Sadly the biggest attraction is resale value. I am a FFL dealer, and Colt is one of my favorite four letter words. Just the name alone sells the guns for me.

With Colt you do get a forged frame and slide, and the few MIM parts are decent for MIM. A stainless Colt can be dehorned easily, but with a blued model like yours a refinish is the only option if wanting to dehorn the pistol.

I agree completely that it is an excellent pistol to build off of, my personal Colt Commander that I carry has a few EGW parts fitted with more to come when time allows. It might be easier to just buy a Wilson or Brown and be done with it, but for some of us customizing a 1911 ourselves has value that can't be bought.

In the end you can't be a Colt fanboy if you don't own a few right?
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  #30  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:24 AM
havanajim havanajim is online now
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Originally Posted by retsgt View Post
..... I would like to know where you got the nice stags?
If you are looking for true Sambar stag, be prepared to pay dearly. Prices have gone through the roof since India stopped the export. Consequently, be very cautious of what people try to pass off as 'real' Sambar. You know how people are when sizable, potential profits are involved.

If you can live with exceptional elk panels, then I recommend MD Grips, out of Tennessee. Mike does great work at matching the precise look you're after, and is a straight shooter to boot.

https://www.mdgrips.com/
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  #31  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:52 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by havanajim View Post
If you are looking for true Sambar stag, be prepared to pay dearly. Prices have gone through the roof since India stopped the export. Consequently, be very cautious of what people try to pass off as 'real' Sambar. You know how people are when sizable, potential profits are involved.

If you can live with exceptional elk panels, then I recommend MD Grips, out of Tennessee. Mike does great work at matching the precise look you're after, and is a straight shooter to boot.

https://www.mdgrips.com/
Oh Jesus, I didn't actually realize what I have here. Well I think these might actually be moved to another gun after checking what these are.
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:45 AM
CyberDyneSystems CyberDyneSystems is offline
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Hi Striker,
Excellent fair review. I am glad to see that it is being taken without the predicted circling of wagons and lynching. It would be hard to argue your thorough examination.

I am not a Colt fanboi, in fact I have yet to own my own Colt, (still waiting for the right one to drop into my hands!) but I did read some of your points as being a little out of place given the intent of this model. ie: it's 100 year anniversary nature = an attempt to make a gun that more closely resembles how they were made 100 years ago.

The first part that really jumped out at me was this,
Quote:
"The other issues are that the gun has a really weird (to me that is) beavertail that doesn't allow you to get as aggressive or high with your grip as I am used to and actually is minorly painful under recoil. The hammer also seems to touch you a little and can be annoying, all this can be solved with a modern setup but I feel you are losing some of the uniqueness of this setup as I have not seen one like this outside of museums. "
I am not sure if this was intended as sarcasm or a joke?
Virtually every modern manufacturer of 1911 offers a "GI Spec" version that adheres to some extent with the old school look and feel of a true 1911 design. One hardly needs to look into a museum to find such a beast. Current Colt, Springfield, Rock Island and many more offer similar "GI" specced 1911s with old school hammer and the necessary tang grip safety that works with them. That grip safety is the one that J.B. designed way back in the first decade of the 1900's. The term "Beavertail" and the safeties that fit the description did not come about until the 1960's and was a truly custom modification at that time. It wasn't until the 1980s that they began to become something that came with a new pistol. They did not dominate the new 1911 market until much later.

The point being that Colt intended this model specifically to reflect the design of the originals.

Dehorning and beveling edges is another relatively modern thing for new manufacture 1911. One used to have to have this done by a gunsmith every time.

In fact, much of what we have come to expect in a 1911 today was all created not by John Moses Browning, but by gunsmiths like Armand Swenson, "Al" Capone of King's, Jim Hoag, Carl Pachmayr, and others in the mid to late 1960s when the idea of the "custom combat" 1911 dawned. Swenson who had worked on rifles was the one to introduce the idea of checkering the front strap. (to give the shooter a better purchase with sweaty, wet or, yes, bloody hands. If checkering works on highly figured walnut stocks, why not on a pistol?)

That grip safety you hate? It was Swenson that addressed it with by bobbing and radiusing. This would later evolve into the beavertail we know today, which as we know, requires a different shaped hammer, and thus the "commander style" hammer is now more prevalent on full size than the original full size hammer.

Beveled magwell? Not JMB, but Armand Swenson again.

Sorry, I'm turning this into a history lesson that likely no one here needs to read, my point only being that if one is to make a 100 year anniversary 1911, I have to side with Colt in feeling that it should look a little like the 1911's of 1911, and not like the custom combat models we've grown accustomed to.

As for the rest of your criticism of the Colt's Q.C. and build quality, I would not debate your findings there for a second.

Last edited by CyberDyneSystems; 05-15-2018 at 10:48 AM.
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  #33  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:57 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by CyberDyneSystems View Post
Hi Striker,
Excellent fair review. I am glad to see that it is being taken without the predicted circling of wagons and lynching. It would be hard to argue your thorough examination.

I am not a Colt fanboi, in fact I have yet to own my own Colt, (still waiting for the right one to drop into my hands!) but I did read some of your points as being a little out of place given the intent of this model. ie: it's 100 year anniversary nature = an attempt to make a gun that more closely resembles how they were made 100 years ago.

The first part that really jumped out at me was this,


I am not sure if this was intended as sarcasm or a joke?
Virtually every modern manufacturer of 1911 offers a "GI Spec" version that adheres to some extent with the old school look and feel of a true 1911 design. One hardly needs to look into a museum to find such a beast. Current Colt, Springfield, Rock Island and many more offer similar "GI" specced 1911s with old school hammer and the necessary tang grip safety that works with them. That grip safety is the one that J.B. designed way back in the first decade of the 1900's. The term "Beavertail" and the safeties that fit the description did not come about until the 1960's and was a truly custom modification at that time. It wasn't until the 1980s that they began to become something that came with a new pistol. They did not dominate the new 1911 market until much later.

The point being that Colt intended this model specifically to reflect the design of the originals.

Dehorning and beveling edges is another relatively modern thing for new manufacture 1911. One used to have to have this done by a gunsmith every time.

In fact, much of what we have come to expect in a 1911 today was all created not by John Moses Browning, but by gunsmiths like Armand Swenson, "Al" Capone of King's, Jim Hoag, Carl Pachmayr, and others in the mid to late 1960s when the idea of the "custom combat" 1911 dawned. Swenson who had worked on rifles was the one to introduce the idea of checkering the front strap. (to give the shooter a better purchase with sweaty, wet or, yes, bloody hands. If checkering works on highly figured walnut stocks, why not on a pistol?)

That grip safety you hate? It was Swenson that addressed it with by bobbing and radiusing. This would later evolve into the beavertail we know today, which as we know, requires a different shaped hammer, and thus the "commander style" hammer is now more prevalent on full size than the original full size hammer.

Beveled magwell? Not JMB, but Armand Swenson again.

Sorry, I'm turning this into a history lesson that likely no one here needs to read, my point only being that if one is to make a 100 year anniversary 1911, I have to side with Colt in feeling that it should look a little like the 1911's of 1911, and not like the custom combat models we've grown accustomed to.

As for the rest of your criticism of the Colt's Q.C. and build quality, I would not debate your findings there for a second.
I actually was not aware of the history, you have given me a good deal of things to look into as to the history of the platform. I honestly didn't stop to consider that in this case perhaps Colt was intentionally going for a non-beveled/chamfered edge finish, same with the tail and frame horns being rough. If that's the case then my criticisms would be flipped into praise for following through on the original design since if sharp edges and slight pain is the intent then I will as usual give points back for good execution of an intentional feature.

As I did say in the very first section of the review I was started on a Wilson 1911 as my first gun and first pistol so I have a tendency to regaurd how those come as "standard" and everything else is a deviation lol!
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:30 PM
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Colt's Series 70 and 1991 Series 80 models are built the same way as they've been for over 100 years. Back in the 1970s and 1980s nobody cared about a seamless fit of all the components, with no gaps or interrupted surfaces. Nowadays folks do. I wouldn't say that Colt builds shoddy guns as much as they're not keeping up with the times. Their guns are reliable and they're made from quality materials, but you can't get away with having a sloppy slide to frame fit and sharp edges like you used to decades ago.
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:36 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Colt's Series 70 and 1991 Series 80 models are built the same way as they've been for over 100 years. Back in the 1970s and 1980s nobody cared about a seamless fit of all the components, with no gaps or interrupted surfaces. Nowadays folks do. I wouldn't say that Colt builds shoddy guns as much as they're not keeping up with the times. Their guns are reliable and they're made from quality materials, but you can't get away with having a sloppy slide to frame fit and sharp edges like you used to decades ago.
I agree it's not shoddy, heck at this point they might as well just keep this as their particular "style" since it does set them apart.
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:41 PM
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That's why I say they are still good at building "mil-spec" guns, since that level of fitting and finish isn't necessary nor expected by most buyers. But when Colt tries to build modern "semi-custom" guns it becomes really obvious that they don't put them together with the same care as Kimber or Springfield, let alone Dan Wesson. A loose GI grip safety that rattles is merely a minor annoyance, but a proper beavertail that does and which has a gap around it big enough to stick your thumbnail in is a huge eyesore.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:46 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
That's why I say they are still good at building "mil-spec" guns, since that level of fitting and finish isn't necessary nor expected by most buyers. But when Colt tries to build modern "semi-custom" guns it becomes really obvious that they don't put them together with the same care as Kimber or Springfield, let alone Dan Wesson. A loose GI grip safety that rattles is merely a minor annoyance, but a proper beavertail that does and which has a gap around it big enough to stick your thumbnail in is a huge eyesore.
Very true, I think if they stuck with GI style stuff and/or made sure their custom shop guns are up to snuff in both function and form they would bounce back fairly well actually. What I would really nice to seem them make is a super high polish nickel plate GI style gun in 9mm and .38 super that comes in a nice case for display.
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Last edited by Striker2237; 05-15-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:07 PM
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They already make a high-polish mil-spec stainless .38 Super. I keep thinking of getting one, but then more of life's problems get in the way and I have to put it off.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #39  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:36 AM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Colt's Series 70 and 1991 Series 80 models are built the same way as they've been for over 100 years. Back in the 1970s and 1980s nobody cared about a seamless fit of all the components, with no gaps or interrupted surfaces. Nowadays folks do. I wouldn't say that Colt builds shoddy guns as much as they're not keeping up with the times. Their guns are reliable and they're made from quality materials, but you can't get away with having a sloppy slide to frame fit and sharp edges like you used to decades ago.
That's it in a nutshell. I just couldn't find the words. My 3 current production Colt 9mm 1911 pistols run perfect, and are plenty accurate too. But they just haven't kept up with the competition in terms of fit, finish and machining. It is shocking how sharp ALL the edges are on my 3 Colts as well.

When my spot opens up with Don Williams in a year or so, I will probably send off my LW Commander 9mm and have he do all the nice and good things to it. I will probably hard chrome the gun as well. I understand aluminum-alloy can be hard chromed. So why not!
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  #40  
Old 05-16-2018, 02:23 PM
CyberDyneSystems CyberDyneSystems is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I actually was not aware of the history, you have given me a good deal of things to look into as to the history of the platform. I honestly didn't stop to consider that in this case perhaps Colt was intentionally going for a non-beveled/chamfered edge finish, same with the tail and frame horns being rough. If that's the case then my criticisms would be flipped into praise for following through on the original design since if sharp edges and slight pain is the intent then I will as usual give points back for good execution of an intentional feature.

As I did say in the very first section of the review I was started on a Wilson 1911 as my first gun and first pistol so I have a tendency to regaurd how those come as "standard" and everything else is a deviation lol!
Glad I could be of help. By the time Bill Wilson got involved, he was what you might call "2nd gen" or "2nd wave" of smiths on the custom combat scene. And he took things to a totally new level almost single handed. Of course he like the others I mentioned started out as a custom shop building on, you guessed it, Colt frames and parts.

Before Wilson became a complete manufacturer vs. smithing enterprise, it was Kimber that came along first in 1995 offering all the previously "custom only" bells and whistles in a straight from the manufacturer pistol.

Wilson Combat soon followed, in this case not only offering the options and bells and whistles, but with the same amazing Wilson attention to detail as his full custom pieces.
then followed more smiths getting into full production, Ed brown, Les Baer originally from Springfield Custom Shop, etc.
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  #41  
Old 05-16-2018, 04:19 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is online now
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Originally Posted by CyberDyneSystems View Post
it was Kimber that came along first in 1995 offering all the previously "custom only" bells and whistles in a straight from the manufacturer pistol.
Didn't Randal fall in the mix around then...didn't they make a Left Handed 1911? Stainless was their game? Right?
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  #42  
Old 05-16-2018, 04:26 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is online now
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Hi Striker,
The point being that Colt intended this model specifically to reflect the design of the originals.
Kinda what I thought and i was surprised that 100 years pistol can with those higher profile three dot sights... not the design of the originals.

I was gonna buy one anyway, because it was a base gun, if I remember right I paid $850 for the pistol new... Not sure if I got robbed or not, but I wanted it asap, because i needed to get to and from CCS by a certain date, I wanted the Base Gun to be new and it was all i could find at the time. I gave it as a birthday gift.
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  #43  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:24 PM
CyberDyneSystems CyberDyneSystems is offline
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Didn't Randal fall in the mix around then...didn't they make a Left Handed 1911? Stainless was their game? Right?
Early 1980's, they made the first production stainless models. Very well put together from what I understand. Never seen one in person. They were only around for a few years. Man long time since I heard the name Randall re: 1911s.
And yes, the first (and one of the only) true mirror image left handed 1911. I think only Cabot is doing it now.

Last edited by CyberDyneSystems; 05-16-2018 at 08:27 PM.
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  #44  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:17 PM
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Early 1980's, they made the first production stainless models. Very well put together from what I understand. Never seen one in person. They were only around for a few years. Man long time since I heard the name Randall re: 1911s.
And yes, the first (and one of the only) true mirror image left handed 1911. I think only Cabot is doing it now.
Randall's 1911s were a perfect example of what we're discussing here. They were "well put together"... for a clone 1911 of that era. Look at one today and you'll see a gun that by today's standards was a cheap hunk of junk. Had you compared ANY clone 1911 of the late 1970s and early 1980s to a Colt you'd have seen just how superior the Colt was in fit and finish. It was Springfield Armory who came out with their own line of 1911s in 1985 and finally began to show what an inexpensive yet quality 1911 could be like. People often credit Kimber for killing off Colt's business, but in truth it was Springfield. Kimber merely administered the coup de grace when in 1996 they came out with a 1911 priced the same as a Colt, but with a level of fit and finish that outwardly could be compared to a high-dollar custom. They pulled it off by using modern CNC machines (which Colt lacked) and making most of the small parts out of MIM steel, which could be held to tighter tolerances than cast or machined parts. Springfield quickly followed suit, and Colt was left still making guns the "old school" way with lots of machined parts but also lacking the fitting and close tolerances that new buyers began to expect in a 1911.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #45  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:36 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Randall's 1911s were a perfect example of what we're discussing here. They were "well put together"... for a clone 1911 of that era. Look at one today and you'll see a gun that by today's standards was a cheap hunk of junk. Had you compared ANY clone 1911 of the late 1970s and early 1980s to a Colt you'd have seen just how superior the Colt was in fit and finish. It was Springfield Armory who came out with their own line of 1911s in 1985 and finally began to show what an inexpensive yet quality 1911 could be like. People often credit Kimber for killing off Colt's business, but in truth it was Springfield. Kimber merely administered the coup de grace when in 1996 they came out with a 1911 priced the same as a Colt, but with a level of fit and finish that outwardly could be compared to a high-dollar custom. They pulled it off by using modern CNC machines (which Colt lacked) and making most of the small parts out of MIM steel, which could be held to tighter tolerances than cast or machined parts. Springfield quickly followed suit, and Colt was left still making guns the "old school" way with lots of machined parts but also lacking the fitting and close tolerances that new buyers began to expect in a 1911.
You know what you are right. I compaired my Detonics to the Colt and the Colt wins hands down, the former appears very roughly done even though it's functional. Colt got shafted by tech that allowed normal guns to take the guise of real custom items.
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  #46  
Old 05-17-2018, 07:02 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is online now
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I remember the first time i looked at a Randal... I was pretty young, but they had some cool advertisements in the gun mags. At that time, I thought it was pretty cool and well built. Not long ago I saw one in a case, asked to look at it...I was floored at how i could have once considered the Randal in the same league as the Colt. Maybe a combination of comparing it to Colt's newest offerings, my experience since that day, but wow...Randal was pretty rough. I guess, No different then watching Miami Vice when it was new and now finding an episode in rerun..."how did I like this"?
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  #47  
Old 05-17-2018, 11:12 AM
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BTW Colt now has CNC machines in place, but a lot of their parts are still made the old way. I believe the barrels are still being made on the same machines that made them during WW2, and the broaching machine that cuts the trigger track in the frames dates back to World War One!
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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  #48  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:12 PM
havanajim havanajim is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
..... I believe the barrels are still being made on the same machines that made them during WW2, and the broaching machine that cuts the trigger track in the frames dates back to World War One!
But, you know... as long as they still wok properly, age is inconsequential, especially given how machines were built back then. I know more than a couple of holster makers still using sewing machines from that same era that continue to run like a dream!!!!!
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  #49  
Old 01-31-2020, 01:45 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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The Colt has returned from Wilson, pictures of its final form to follow with as well as an updated range session.
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Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
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  #50  
Old 01-31-2020, 07:18 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Here it is, I am very impressed. All the sharpness and roughness is gone, frame is tighter, rear of slide is flush, new MSH and thumb safety both are fit very well and the feel of the safety in particular is extremely crisp and sure now. Nothing on the gun is at all like it was stock, everything to do with the MSH is now better fit and adjusted and feels better to use. Trigger is at 4.5 exact no creep and a very good break, I'm unsure why it's improved but I won't ask questions. Sights are installed excellently and according to the test target this gun should meet the accuracy guarantee even though it's not covered by it.

Most importantly the finish is phenomenal. It's a literal mirror, absolutely perfect and has transformed the gun from kidna shoddy and unimpressive to my most visually impactful 1911. Pictures are below, enjoy

https://imgur.com/a/slC1ITh
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Carry gun:Wilson Carry Comp Custom .45S Pocket carry:on loan Other 1911s:WC Supergrade Accucomp .38, WC BW Opticomp, WC CQB Compact, WC CQB Professional, WC Super Sentinel, WC CQB Elite 9mm, WC EDC X9, WC X9S, Ed Brown SR, NHC Predator II Opticomp, NHC T3 Hardchrome, Kimber Ultra, ATI Tactical, RIA Tactical 10mm, Kimber Ultra Diamond 9mm, Detonics Combat Master MKVI, Colt Centennial .460 Roland
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