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  #1  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:29 PM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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10 year old IFAK

Ok so my little soon to be 11 year old is going on her first ever road/light camping school trip. She is all good and responsible but a little on a ditzy side of things, so packing her up with chest decompression needles and NPA will not do any good, not to mention it'll earn me a phone call from school, she goes to quaker school. . Any suggestions on what to pack her with? Or should I just pack it up the standart way for camping and hand it over to the teacher?
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:38 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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I think the answer to your question is entierly dependent upon your daughters training with the items in the, and her maturity...

Since you describe her as a little "ditzy", Id say any meds- even aspirin- and any invasive or traumatic protocols are out- no needles, NPA, nothing that penetrates in any manner, and no torniquetes....

Beyond that, what does she have the skill and knowledge to do?
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I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2018, 07:21 PM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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That is the question that I am struggling with. Separating her state of mind in the event of emergency vs my state of mind. And trying to figure out what they would have at the camping facility first aid station.

If we are talking bleeding IBD can be used by a teacher they have pictures and all on a packet. Question is what are the chances she takes it with her wherever they go.

We played doctor with IBD Sam splint Band aids neosporin, artificial tears eyedrops she has experience with self applying. Broken bones she had, she knows how it feels. Anything bleeding beyond some nice bike falls she has no first hand experience with. How she would react to emergency and her ability to self-aid without me present, I honestly don't know to date I was there walking her thru it and keeping her calm when I made her self-treat her minor injuries.
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  #4  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:01 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
That is the question that I am struggling with. Separating her state of mind in the event of emergency vs my state of mind. And trying to figure out what they would have at the camping facility first aid station.

If we are talking bleeding IBD can be used by a teacher they have pictures and all on a packet. Question is what are the chances she takes it with her wherever they go.

We played doctor with IBD Sam splint Band aids neosporin, artificial tears eyedrops she has experience with self applying. Broken bones she had, she knows how it feels. Anything bleeding beyond some nice bike falls she has no first hand experience with. How she would react to emergency and her ability to self-aid without me present, I honestly don't know to date I was there walking her thru it and keeping her calm when I made her self-treat her minor injuries.
My next questions...

What activities will she be engaging in at this camp? Shes 10, and its the 21st century, so I'm assuming no guns, archery, or 30m free Aussie rappelling... I'm thinking its a very low probability of significant trauma.

Secondly, how is the staff trained regarding such issues? What safety protocols do they have in place? Is their an on site medic or trauma focused nurse... if not, I'd question the facility... its the cadres responsibility to deal with such issues.

I appreciate that you're trying to teach here someself reliance, but she may be a bit young and immature to do so at this point...
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I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
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  #5  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:01 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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I would like to think that an overnight/camp out trip.

Involving eleven year olds. That it would be appropriately chaperoned by responsible adults that are equipped physically and mentally to deal with minor emergencies. I would want to know about this before I gave consent for my daughter to go on such an adventure. Additionally, consideration should be given to likely hazard levels.

Are they going to be three hours from the nearest anything, or ten minutes from the local fire house? Ten thousand feet in iffy weather? I think that you get the picture. Some eleven year old kids have more on the ball than a lot of people three times their age. Just sayin.
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:44 PM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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wccountryboy, USMM It's an environmental/educational center, in the low lying mountains, nature hikes, study pond life, study bats, study beavers, ecology, astronomy activities. There are decent trails in that region definitely a good challenge for kiddies. 7 miles to the fire house 20 miles to ER. As far as responsible adults that go with them, they are responsible enough, are they trained beyond applying band aids that is a good question. School nurse I already got into a bit when she was trying to convince me that secondary viral infection of the eye required antibiotics treatment. That is after I told her that primary doc already diagnosed it and did not feel the need for antibiotics. Same CYA jump thru the hoops deal when giving a kid an OTC advil for tension headache, bunch of phone calls stopped short of calling a doctor for an order. Can she handle a CPR or operate AED? Probably. Will she pack anything beyond band-aids in her med pack, I have my reservations about that. So my idea was to pack something my kid can use along with something that they can use on her if things happen, assuming they'd be willing to do so.
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2018, 09:00 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Well maybe you are on the right track.

When you say "ditzy that can mean a lot of things or nothing. My small brain asks the question Is she actually ditzy as you say or is she just a kid? I am thinking likely the latter.

So maybe you just want to have a talk with her. See what she has to say about it. See what her comfort level is, and go from there.
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2018, 09:10 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
wccountryboy, USMM It's an environmental/educational center, in the low lying mountains, nature hikes, study pond life, study bats, study beavers, ecology, astronomy activities. There are decent trails in that region definitely a good challenge for kiddies. 7 miles to the fire house 20 miles to ER. As far as responsible adults that go with them, they are responsible enough, are they trained beyond applying band aids that is a good question. School nurse I already got into a bit when she was trying to convince me that secondary viral infection of the eye required antibiotics treatment. That is after I told her that primary doc already diagnosed it and did not feel the need for antibiotics. Same CYA jump thru the hoops deal when giving a kid an OTC advil for tension headache, bunch of phone calls stopped short of calling a doctor for an order. Can she handle a CPR or operate AED? Probably. Will she pack anything beyond band-aids in her med pack, I have my reservations about that. So my idea was to pack something my kid can use along with something that they can use on her if things happen, assuming they'd be willing to do so.
I can understand your concerns... a medical "professional" prescribing antibiotics for diagnosed viral infection is scary- antibiotics do not defeat viruses... the resistance to habding outmeds, even OTCs, is normal for schools. God help them if there's an allergic or contridictory reaction with other meds... nobody ever died from a headache, so discomfort is OK...

Theres 2 issues that I see: a willingness to utilize various medical procedures, and the skill to do so.

On the positive side, its a low risk environment, professional EMS is 15 minutes out, and an ER 40 minutes later- worst case. Life threatening, stabalize in 3 minutes or someone dies, trauma is unlikely... anaphylaxis from bee stings, maybe- but such students shouldbe identified and have epi pens. Twisted or broken ankles- painful, but not life threatening.

Honesty, the biggest risk I see is dehydration and heat injuries- but they're 10; they're not being force marched under load against a clock....
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I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2018, 09:23 PM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
When you say "ditzy that can mean a lot of things or nothing. My small brain asks the question Is she actually ditzy as you say or is she just a kid? I am thinking likely the latter.

So maybe you just want to have a talk with her. See what she has to say about it. See what her comfort level is, and go from there.
She is a very smart motivated, very mature for her age great all around ditz, when it comes to situational awarness I usually find her inside the school by following bread crumbs of her belongings that line up a hallway. 4 fracture arm break with dislocation, 2 foot fall off of some monkey bars, she forgot she was holding on to them because, she needed the hands to explain something to some other kid, face plant on a perfectly flat surface and 6 stitches to follow, with arm still in the cast because she was in some debate with her brother. But give her a rifle or a power tool not one mistake 100% focus on task all safety rules observed not a thing that can distract her .
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:48 PM
Red Dirt Dave Red Dirt Dave is offline
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Don't worry. It'll be a piece of cake. And she'll have a lot of fun. My little ditz is now a physician. And she's thinking hard about a rural practice.
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2018, 12:42 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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is there cell phone signal?

if so, make sure someone in the group has a charged battery

I don't want to sound trite, but it's a walk in the woods and pitch a tent in a camp ground
Not Lord of the Flies

depending on time of year, make sure she has mosquito repellant...and toilet paper



..L.T.A.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2018, 06:40 AM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
is there cell phone signal?

if so, make sure someone in the group has a charged battery

I don't want to sound trite, but it's a walk in the woods and pitch a tent in a camp ground
Not Lord of the Flies

depending on time of year, make sure she has mosquito repellant...and toilet paper



..L.T.A.
LOL I know I know little princess is growing up. And I am not too concerned about it just figured I'll pack her up with something useful in case she gets banged up a bit.
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2018, 07:05 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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LOL I know I know little princess is growing up. .
I can dig it, Brother
I raised a boy and a girl

a son's a man's pride
a daughter his heart

at 11 to 13 age things start to change
and with/if a mixed group of kids camping over night, I'd be less concerned with snake bites, bears and bruises and more concerned with the "birds and the bees" ......

..L.T.A.
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2018, 08:17 AM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
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Sounds like you're more stressed over this trip than she is. Pack her up with a stick and a bandana with a PB&J sandwich in it, slung over her shoulder. It's a school campout.

Really....it'll be fine.
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2018, 01:29 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
LOL I know I know little princess is growing up. And I am not too concerned about it just figured I'll pack her up with something useful in case she gets banged up a bit.
I understand...

Look at it this way: if she gets "banged up a bit", limited to a degree that she could self treat, the staff can probably handle it, and its likely not too serious or life threatening.

If the injury is severe enough that staff can't handle it, its unlikely that she'd be ablel to self treat...

As others have said, its really not worth worrying about, given the low risk environment and proximity of professional medical services...

It doesn't make letting go a little any easier.
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I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2018, 04:59 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
4 fracture arm break with dislocation, 2 foot fall off of some monkey bars, she forgot she was holding on to them because, she needed the hands to explain something to some other kid, face plant on a perfectly flat surface and 6 stitches to follow, with arm still in the cast because she was in some debate with her brother.
Seriously, I would not let her out of my sight.

I would look into martial arts camp, she needs to learn to fall and roll. I am not a grand master grappler, but I do know how to fall and recover. I know it has saved me several times from injury. My son went through an awkward stage and he improved with "everything" when he did about six months of martial arts.

Hopefully she will out grow this stage... some people never do. Best of all, It is great that she has a caring father. She is gonna grow up one day. Good Luck.
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2018, 05:14 PM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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Seriously, I would not let her out of my sight.

I would look into martial arts camp, she needs to learn to fall and roll. I am not a grand master grappler, but I do know how to fall and recover. I know it has saved me several times from injury. My son went through an awkward stage and he improved with "everything" when he did about six months of martial arts.

Hopefully she will out grow this stage... some people never do. Best of all, It is great that she has a caring father. She is gonna grow up one day. Good Luck.
She does gymnastics. Falls, recovers just fine, rolls, flips, backflips,hand flips, beam, bars, nay a problem. It's when she is doing simple things that require minimal degree of concentration, like walking and talking that she is at her most vulnerable .
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2018, 05:30 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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She does gymnastics. Falls, recovers just fine, rolls, flips, backflips,hand flips, beam, bars, nay a problem. It's when she is doing simple things that require minimal degree of concentration, like walking and talking that she is at her most vulnerable .
Gymnastics is great. Sounds like she is advanced for her age. Beam and Bars is pretty tough stuff! Kids that have athletics in thier lives do better at almost everything. Keep up the good work.
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  #19  
Old 03-21-2018, 07:46 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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Stop worrying Dad. My twin girls are all grown up now. Yes it sucks. Just wait until the first boyfriend. This camping trip is nothing compared to the first time some teen age boy kisses your daughter.

Just relax. You have taught her well and she will be fine. Enjoy 11 because 16 is next and that means taking the car and driving
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  #20  
Old 03-21-2018, 02:32 PM
557 557 is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
She is a very smart motivated, very mature for her age great all around ditz, when it comes to situational awarness I usually find her inside the school by following bread crumbs of her belongings that line up a hallway. 4 fracture arm break with dislocation, 2 foot fall off of some monkey bars, she forgot she was holding on to them because, she needed the hands to explain something to some other kid, face plant on a perfectly flat surface and 6 stitches to follow, with arm still in the cast because she was in some debate with her brother. But give her a rifle or a power tool not one mistake 100% focus on task all safety rules observed not a thing that can distract her .
I think you solved your problem without knowing it. Clearly you just need to send her with a rifle to keep her focused!

It sounds to me like she may be at risk of minor injury from ditziness but will be fine because she knows when to take things seriously when needed.

Good call on the gymnastics. Did that for several years as a kid. Was always a lousy gymnast but you are right about it preventing injury later in life from skills learned.

I donít even know how to put a band aid on correctly on a human so canít give you good advice there. Bovines I can fix uterine prolapses, do esophageal feeding, etc but fixing humans isnít my thing.

Your girl will be fine. You wonít worry if I tell you not too, right?
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  #21  
Old 03-21-2018, 11:11 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Be sure that she packs female supplies.
Simple IFAK for garden variety issues.

Don't over think it.

And for a novel idea, be sure to include her in the process.

Be sure she understands what she needs and why. Prompt her if required, but see how much she'll figure out on her own.
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:12 AM
Black Jack Black Jack is offline
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What are her needs? Does she have any allergies or take any meds on a regular basis?

I would start out with standard band-aids and ananti-biotic cream, then add additional items based on her needs.

In general, an 11 y.o. on a school outing doesn't need much in the way of a medical first aid kit, unless she has special needs because of allergies or medical condition. The school should have basic emergency first aid needs covered.
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  #23  
Old 03-22-2018, 11:10 AM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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The school should have basic emergency first aid needs covered.
That's what I thought until she fell and broke her arm in 4 places in her previous school . No ambulance, ice they found 10 minutes before I got there an hour later. Sling? What sling. Makeshift splint, nope. Advil to take the edge off, nope. Check for concussion, nope. Did all that myself before I drove her to the ER. The BS they gave me was don't worry it's just a sprain. Like hell it is it was obvious to any layman who'd bothered to look.
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  #24  
Old 03-22-2018, 11:13 AM
matrosov matrosov is offline
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Originally Posted by NonHyphenAmerican View Post
Be sure that she packs female supplies.
Simple IFAK for garden variety issues.

Don't over think it.

And for a novel idea, be sure to include her in the process.

Be sure she understands what she needs and why. Prompt her if required, but see how much she'll figure out on her own.
Oh she will absolutely be included I just need to get a starting point in my mind
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  #25  
Old 03-22-2018, 04:49 PM
NonHyphenAmerican NonHyphenAmerican is offline
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Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
Oh she will absolutely be included I just need to get a starting point in my mind
Well, for an easy starting point, the small kit I keep on hand at almost all times is:

WetOnes Packets (4) These are handy for cleaning wounds, hands, etc.
Small bottle with 4 Imodiums, 8 Ibuprofen, 4 aspirin, 8 benedryl, 8 tylenol and 4 Tums
Small Individual Spray Neosporin
1 Tampon
1 MaxiPad--(I'm married and have a daughter, believe it or not, these have come in handy)
Disposable Scissors
Tape
Coban
2 2" Gauze Pads, 2 4x4 Telfa Pads

This all fits in a small pouch. I've got one in each vehicle and keep one in a small "Pack" I carry with me.

I'm a "Redneck" so I also have 3-4 clean cotton bandana's handy. They make good compress bandages, a tie up for a bandage and also a sling when needed.
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