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  #1  
Old 03-07-2009, 02:37 AM
BanditSRT8 BanditSRT8 is offline
 
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Video: Condition 1 is unsafe.

LINK TO VIDEO


This should be required viewing. I'm glad I was able to help.
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2009, 02:54 AM
DirtyRod DirtyRod is offline
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It should have ended with him choking on the whistle ....
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:07 AM
F16DCC F16DCC is offline
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I like that... At least one or two older guys in every class I teach has a comment for my "unsafe" cocked and locked, 1911. They dont know what to say when I say "That is how John M. Browning designed it to be carried!"
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:14 AM
45collector 45collector is offline
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weird

true though
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2009, 07:37 AM
ambluemax ambluemax is offline
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LOL
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2009, 07:41 AM
Double Naught Spy Double Naught Spy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F16DCC View Post
I like that... At least one or two older guys in every class I teach has a comment for my "unsafe" cocked and locked, 1911. They dont know what to say when I say "That is how John M. Browning designed it to be carried!"
And you have documentation for that? Nobody else seems to have any.

The 1911 is perfectly safe to carry that way, but as far as I have been able to learn, there is no documentation that says Browning designed it to be carried that way anymore than there is documentation that he designed it to be carried unchambered with the hammer down.
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2009, 08:01 AM
Pat-inCO Pat-inCO is offline
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
And you have documentation for that?
Excellent question!

Each of the people claiming the Mode 1 is designed in seem to conveniently forget
that the military carried the 1911 in Mode 3.

I too would like to see the documentation for their statement about Mode 3 being designed in.
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2009, 08:04 AM
Porkponey Porkponey is offline
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I would think the fact that the safety can only be engaged once the pistol is cocked would at least point towards that being jmb's idea.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2009, 08:38 AM
1911OP 1911OP is offline
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That John Browning intended the 1911 to be carried in Condition One is evidenced by the fact that a major feature of the gun is the thumb safety. There is no earthly use for the thumb safety - the part doesn't even function unless the hammer is cocked.
Cocked And Locked by Robert Boatman - http://www.invisibleholster.com/cocklock.htm
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2009, 09:47 AM
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Rosco Benson Rosco Benson is offline
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It's funny how "out of sight, out of mind" applies to this situation. Most of the folks who are scared of a 1911 in Condition one think nothing of carrying an AR-15 or Remington 870 in Condition one. I guess that if the cocked hammer is concealed, then it isn't so scary.

Likewise, many of the scairdy-cats think nothing of carrying their Glock or Springfield XD in, essentially, Condtion ZERO.

Unreasonable fears are just that; unreasonable.

Rosco
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2009, 09:54 AM
Asylum Keeper Asylum Keeper is offline
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2009, 10:37 AM
josey88 josey88 is offline
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I think that , the fact that the thumb safety is outside , clearly seen holding the hammer all the way up there , is scary ... My personal opinion , regardless of how J. Browning designed it , is that it is dangerous , because it can be entangled , caught up on something, cloths, etc , and then , if , like me , you are carrying IWB and the hammer falls while you sit down, get out of the car , etc , you have a big problem. On the other hand , I can understand that it will be a completely different approach if you are carrying your 1911 on a OWB , on duty, on a cover holster where none of the previous scenarios apply,(I tend to assume that , that is how J. Browning designed it originally) then I would too carry it locked and cocked . I want to state that those are my personal beliefs , and I am not trying in any way to influence anybody to carry in a different way... If you feel safe in condition one , by all means, keep doing it. I do carry mostly a Sig Sauer , double action , no safety , but to discharge a rd , you have to purposely pull the trigger all the way and it is a 10 lbs pull the first time , so it is much safer , once again , in my opinion !!!

Last edited by josey88; 03-07-2009 at 10:47 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2009, 10:48 AM
BanditSRT8 BanditSRT8 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josey88 View Post
I think that , the fact that the thumb safety is outside , clearly seen holding the hammer all the way up there , is scary ... My personal opinion , regardless of how J. Browning designed it , is that it is dangerous , because it can be entangled , caught up on something, cloths, etc , and then , if , like me , you are carrying IWB and the hammer falls while you sit down, get out of the car , etc , you have a big problem. On the other hand , I can understand that it will be a completely different approach if you are carrying your 1911 on a OWB , on duty, on a cover holster where none of the previous scenarios apply,(I tend to assume that , that is how J. Browning designed it originally) then I would too carry it locked and cocked . I want to state that those are my personal beliefs , and I am not trying in any way to influence anybody to carry in a different way... If you feel safe in condition one , by all means, keep doing it. I do carry mostly a Sig Sauer , double action , no safety , but to discharge a rd , you have to purposely pull the trigger all the way and it is a 10 lbs pull the first time , so it is much safer , once again , in my opinion !!!

People like you are why I made the video.


It was supposed to be funny, not spur on yet ANOTHER argument about Condition 1.

I'm still amazed that people actually see it as somehow unsafe.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:05 AM
Caspian17 Caspian17 is offline
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Series 80 is a wonderful thing. Only when the thumb safety is depressed will the gun fire. I am sorry to say that to all of those who carry a DA gun... you just don't have to worry because of a 10+ lb pull. How many times have you heard of people discharging their Glock or Sig w/ DA because of holstering or unholstering. I carry mine condition 1 and I am not scared. To each his own. I know that unless my finger is on the trigger, my hand is engaging the grip safety, and lastly that I have the thumb safety disengaged my gun is not going off. If by chance I sit down and I click the thumb safety off, I still have 2 more to back up on. I don't carry my glock because of the lack of these safeties.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:09 AM
Bear Claw Chris Bear Claw Chris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josey88 View Post
I think that , the fact that the thumb safety is outside , clearly seen holding the hammer all the way up there
Uh..the safety doesn't hold the hammer "up there", is keeps the trigger from being pulled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by josey88 View Post
My personal opinion , regardless of how J. Browning designed it , is that it is dangerous , because it can be entangled , caught up on something, cloths, etc , and then , if , like me , you are carrying IWB and the hammer falls while you sit down, get out of the car , etc , you have a big problem.
The grip safety would still be preventing the gun from firing would it not?

If you can't move around without disengaging the safety, depressing the grip safety and pulling the trigger, all 3 at once, it might be time for a revolver.
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:13 AM
josey88 josey88 is offline
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I am amazed that people like you would actually believe that carrying a 1911 in condition one , IWB , is safe ...!!! And, in top of that , will try to ridicule others who do not !!! Give me a brake ...!!! If you are willing to risk your life knowingly and because you think that someone designed it that way or whatever , it is fine with me , but the way people carry their weapons is very personal and should be respected !!! You like to go around with your life hanging on a half centimeter`s distance slipping thumb safety and I dont !!! It is as simply as that. This has been debated endlessly and will not end because everybody has its own way of doing things
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:24 AM
Caspian17 Caspian17 is offline
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you Josey... are a Troll and not very well educated. I wear mine EVERYDAY in a IWB and have never had a problem. Go shoot your sigs and sell your 1911's to people who respect the design and will shoot/carry them the way they were intended.

First and foremost you do realize what safeties there are right? Just to count external:

1: Thumb safety (Which you seem to think is the only safety on the 1911
2: Grips safety (Hammer will not fall unless the grip safety is depressed)
3: Your finger (Have to pull the trigger for the gun to go off, and if the hammer falls just by you sitting, you messed up your gun pretty bad)
4: Series 80
Now go shoot your sigs and ridicule us who carry our 1911's with half a centimeter (why are we using metric, JMB designed it in Imperial, are you from Europe/Canada?)

I trust my life to 4 safeties. Not just #3 on my list.

Last edited by Caspian17; 03-07-2009 at 12:18 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:35 AM
sevenplusone sevenplusone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josey88 View Post
I think that , the fact that the thumb safety is outside , clearly seen holding the hammer all the way up there , is scary ... My personal opinion , regardless of how J. Browning designed it , is that it is dangerous , because it can be entangled , caught up on something, cloths, etc , and then , if , like me , you are carrying IWB and the hammer falls while you sit down, get out of the car , etc , you have a big problem. On the other hand , I can understand that it will be a completely different approach if you are carrying your 1911 on a OWB , on duty, on a cover holster where none of the previous scenarios apply,(I tend to assume that , that is how J. Browning designed it originally) then I would too carry it locked and cocked . I want to state that those are my personal beliefs , and I am not trying in any way to influence anybody to carry in a different way... If you feel safe in condition one , by all means, keep doing it. I do carry mostly a Sig Sauer , double action , no safety , but to discharge a rd , you have to purposely pull the trigger all the way and it is a 10 lbs pull the first time , so it is much safer , once again , in my opinion !!!
I have never once had my thumb safety disengage and I wear my DW CBob exclusively IWB unless at the range. Don't be ridiculous. It's safer for me, more dangerous for the bad guy.

Your Sig is more dangerous in my opinion. Which of the following conditions seems more likely?

1) A trigger getting snagged and pulled?

2) A trigger getting snagged and pulled after snagging the thumb safety to disengage it while depressing the grip safety to disengage it?
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2009, 11:50 AM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is online now
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Originally Posted by josey88 View Post
I I want to state that those are my personal beliefs , and I am not trying in any way to influence anybody to carry in a different way...

You definitely needn't worry about that possibility....
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:14 PM
Pat-inCO Pat-inCO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambluemax
LOL
EXCELLENT summary of many of the "answers".

One person call another a troll - without indicating who he/she is referring to.

Several replies that sound rather heated.

There was one - GOOD - question:
Quote:
And you have documentation for that?
and I second the question, but no replies. I'll somewhat amend that to say we did get one link, but that is to another persons opinion.

If Mode 1 is within the JMB design, where is the documentation? In about 100 years, there should be - some - kind of documentation.

Everyone has the right to an opinion. Within five forum members there should be no more than six opinions.

With that in mind, I think it is fruitless to chastise someone that holds an opinion different than yours.


P.S. I appreciate receiving FACTS. If you supply an opinion, I think it appropriate to indicate it is an opinion.
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Last edited by Pat-inCO; 03-07-2009 at 12:16 PM. Reason: P.S.
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  #21  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:18 PM
Caspian17 Caspian17 is offline
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Troll was referring to Josey...

and I am sure there is no documentation of how he was actually intending it to be carried whether 1 or 3. But you can only imagine he expected it to be carried cocked and locked as it was intended for use by the cavalry. If it was designed to be shot one hand but would require you to rack the slide how does that make much sense? Just my .02. It seems like it was originally designed to be condition 1, because if you were trying to negate the 2 hand effect while riding/galloping and trying to snag it to rack the slide it seems worthless. Sorry for the confusion
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  #22  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:20 PM
ShadyScott999 ShadyScott999 is offline
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Here we go again...
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  #23  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:29 PM
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Some people should not drive, handle knives, walk near windows or ride escalators.
I suspect josey is one of these.
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  #24  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:30 PM
Flockmaster Flockmaster is offline
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Originally Posted by sevenplusone View Post
I have never once had my thumb safety disengage and I wear my DW CBob exclusively IWB unless at the range. Don't be ridiculous. It's safer for me, more dangerous for the bad guy.

Your Sig is more dangerous in my opinion. Which of the following conditions seems more likely?

1) A trigger getting snagged and pulled?

2) A trigger getting snagged and pulled after snagging the thumb safety to disengage it while depressing the grip safety to dihsengage it?
I have a few times. It's why I took the oversized ambi-safety off the gun and have combat style thumb safeties (the little nub) on both my 1911's. Anyway the gun never went off, of course. In a proper holster the gun can be carried with the thmb safety dis-engaged and never go off.
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Last edited by Flockmaster; 03-07-2009 at 12:33 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Caspian17 View Post
Troll was referring to Josey...

and I am sure there is no documentation of how he was actually intending it to be carried whether 1 or 3. But you can only imagine he expected it to be carried cocked and locked as it was intended for use by the cavalry. If it was designed to be shot one hand but would require you to rack the slide how does that make much sense? Just my .02. It seems like it was originally designed to be condition 1, because if you were trying to negate the 2 hand effect while riding/galloping and trying to snag it to rack the slide it seems worthless. Sorry for the confusion
Best use of logic on the whole page....
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