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  #1  
Old 12-04-2008, 08:17 AM
blumpie blumpie is offline
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Hand to Hand defense?

I have been on this board only a short time and I have have read many discussions about self defense with a fire arm, carry laws, engagements, and tactical shooting.

I am wondering how many out there has ever had training on hand-to-hand self defense or non-lethal defense?

For instance, I hold 2 black-belts in Hapkido and I am working on my third. One BB in Aikido, and I am currently studying Jun Fan and Kali.

Along with the techniques, I have picked up some conflicting philosophy from each of these arts. One states "Subdue your opponent with as little personal harm possible." Another form takes and "Eye-for-an-Eye" approach. Give back what you are given. The other form follows more of a "Stomp his guts out and end it as quickly as possible." All of them follow a defensive attitude.

In any case, I am not allowed to carry where I live because I am supposed to believe that the police and the government are going to take care of me. So I go with that I can.
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2008, 08:20 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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It's my belief that the various martial arts are a good thing and quite useful, right up until someone introduces a weapon into the mix. After that, it's a knife or gun fight.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2008, 08:24 AM
Lord_of_Decay Lord_of_Decay is offline
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Take away your opponents will and or ability to fight. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2008, 09:24 AM
ScooterJammer ScooterJammer is offline
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Quote:
"Stomp his guts out and end it as quickly as possible."
This is the way I was taught.

I'm 54-years old, survived a stroke in July '08, I have a bad knee, and a bad back, if I'm attacked by someone and it becomes hand-to-hand, I revert to training and my training dictates the guy that comes in second is dead.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2008, 09:33 AM
blumpie blumpie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
It's my belief that the various martial arts are a good thing and quite useful, right up until someone introduces a weapon into the mix. After that, it's a knife or gun fight.
Agreed. But I have been trained in techniques to defend against an armed assailant including disarming. I also practice knife fighting. I can't say that I have had the opportunity to practice in a real situation and I hope I never have to.

If I had the right to carry, I would carry. I was just interested in what others are doing as a "Backup Plan" should you become disarmed for whatever reason or in a "Safe Zone" (i.e. a drinking establishment where guns are not allowed, but fights and violence are more likely to occur.)
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2008, 10:46 AM
supergus supergus is offline
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I practice Jeet Kune Do; reason being, there's a very good chance that during the initial attack you may not have time to draw your weapon. Any type of martial arts can buy you valuable time and distance, allowing you time to draw (or end the fight without drawing). If I'm jumped, just a couple of moves can put the BG out of the fight, or at least let me determine if he has a weapon. I just remember the equal force on force idea. If I get jumped, I won't just cap the dude, unless he has a weapon that could do me serious bodily harm.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Paladin42 Paladin42 is offline
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End it quickly with the pinpoint application of excessive force.

I carry a knife, handgun, and fighting cane.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:49 AM
zdragon52 zdragon52 is offline
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don't forget that proper training in the use of a firearm is the ultimate form of martial art.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:51 AM
blumpie blumpie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin42 View Post
, and fighting cane.
Have you studied with the cane? I did a little study with it a few years ago, but I have considered focusing more on it since it could be a viable weapon that would NOT raise suspicion anywhere............ Even on an airplane!
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2008, 11:52 AM
St.Michael St.Michael is offline
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well everyone should train in some sort of art. Black belts don't mean ****. I know of at least 3 black belts in my area that are jokes. 2 that go to my school and couldn't beat themselves outta a wet paper bag. It's sad. I train in Kali. Used to do Aikido, but that isn't so practical and to a point is a joke. Done the TKD and Karate too. Real world training is the only way to go. Don't get me wrong I respect and LOVE traditional martial arts. Aikido is my favorite. I just would rather do something that will save my life instead of what looks good on TV.
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2008, 12:08 PM
exs4 exs4 is offline
 
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Yup!

I have Trained in Kenpo Karate in the past.
I plan to start Training in KRAV MAGA soon.
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:22 PM
banzai7 banzai7 is offline
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I trained in Aikijitsu, Shotokan, Kali, Muay Thai and a little BJJ. I left it ALL behind ( as styles, but kept a few of the useful techniques ) when I got hooked up with Senshido. Nothing more pratical for the street for me, and I've used the Shredder/REACT concept twice at work. It worked like magic.

Always have a back up plan. Not every problem is a 'gun problem'.

"there's a very good chance that during the initial attack you may not have time to draw your weapon" couldn't agree more.
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:28 PM
mitrod3 mitrod3 is offline
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At 61 years old with a whimped up right arm, elbow and shoulder it will be talk em down , shot em , knife em , or run like hell.......which I can still do.

To you younger, stronger and less physically challenged folks out there, do what works.

Last edited by mitrod3; 12-04-2008 at 01:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:30 PM
detacbob detacbob is offline
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Black Belt in Krav maga. Good enough for combat in the IDF good enough for me. Purple in BJJ, gotta have ground skills. Muay Thai just starting.
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:38 PM
Ben B. Ben B. is offline
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Last edited by Ben B.; 12-04-2008 at 05:55 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:40 PM
banzai7 banzai7 is offline
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charging drunk flat on his ass with the "clothesline" like move, can't remember the name for it.

Iriminage. No doubt one of the more fun ones!!
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:46 PM
pds45 pds45 is offline
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I have a BB in TKD. But fer cryin' out loud I'm 57 years old. What's that old saying about pickin' a fight with an old man? Seriously though, martial arts training of any kind can make you a better pistol fighter too. Isn't pistol fighting just a different kind of martial art? I mean you have swords, sticks, staff, knives, etc. Pistol is just another weapon.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:43 PM
Slayer Slayer is offline
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I have been in more fights than most people. Most I could of got out of and some I couldn't. Most of these were in my Teenage years. I am 23 and have a whole different mindset than back then. I have seen street fights first hand. Over that time I learned how to win when possible. I use and practice what ever works. I then learned how to win with out fighting. Most of the stuff I have practiced in MA will not work in the street. Using all these joint locks and twisting the BG arms this and that will get your butt kicked. I see way too much flailing around to be able to grab or lock up an arm. What I do see are openings to end the fight in between all the flailing around if a way out does not present itself before all the flailing starts. If you are in a fight in the real world most of them will end up on the ground. Before you get to that point one or a series of strikes can end it. I have seen one swift kick to the gut end a fight before. Real World SD training is a must.
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2008, 03:41 PM
blumpie blumpie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pds45 View Post
I have a BB in TKD. But fer cryin' out loud I'm 57 years old.
That don't mean ****! I know of some TKD guys your age that I wouldn't mess with!

TKD has become more of a tournament port these days, but still viable training. When I studied Hapkido, the same school taught TKD. Sometimes, we would intermingle on sparring nights. For saftey, we (the HKD guys) were forced to follow tournament rules. It was difficult to NOT catch your opponents kick and take him out with a knee sweep.

I chose HKD over TKD at the time because it seems more practical for RW situations. Also, the Grand Master that taught the class first-hand is a former South Korean White Tiger. He was a Special Opps guy in the S. Korean Military and claimed allot of what he taught us was taught to the special Opps teams. Some real sick stuff. This is after studying Aikido for 3 years. Aikido was great, but almost 100% defensive. No strikes our counter strikes what so ever. One thing that I took from Aikido that I have applied to everything else is how to "fall." I have gotton out of trouble more than once just by knowing how to take a fall properly and get back into a defensive/offensive position.


he class I am studying now is Jun Fan/Kali with some BJJ thrown into the mix. I like the class because it is HARD and the master will NOT dish out black belts until you honestly deserve it.

I have also learned how to AVOID fighting by learning how to fight. Kind of an oxymoron I guess. Maybe it's because I have learned to control my anger and adrenaline.

At any rate, I am glad I have taken that path, not just for SD, but for the over all PT and health aspect.

One thing I would like to do is study handgun and carbine techniques as I would a martial art.
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2008, 03:52 PM
Delcozrt Delcozrt is offline
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Ok some one had to say it so let it b me bash me all ya want ,
anyone find it funny that every on in this thread has a black belt and studys many arts . im 30 with no bb's i study M.M.A with a 53 year old guy i work with and he can woop my ass ,at least one of us is honest in hear but dont b fooled i can hold my one .
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  #21  
Old 12-04-2008, 03:56 PM
Delcozrt Delcozrt is offline
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sorry about the spelling im at work in my ninja weapon factory and have to tipe wile doging throwing stars
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:17 PM
ScooterJammer ScooterJammer is offline
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I have been taught hand-to-hand techniques in "Systema" and though I didn't know at the time I was "taught" Krav Maga techniques years ago by IDF guys. I just thought I'd gotten my azz-kicked by a bunch of Jewish boys

The use of these 'techniques' presumes your opponent will not survive or if he does, he's permanently disabled. They are decisive and brutal.

It's like the difference between a movie knife fight and the real thing. Taking a piece of sharpened metal and shoving it through a person's neck and windpipe and then using the bones in their cervical spine as a leverage point to rip it all out of the front is a a whole lot more brutal then Hollywood's version of the blade being drawn across the guys throat.

However, because of loved ones, I'm glad they don't show the reality, it's bad enough as is.
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:17 PM
blumpie blumpie is offline
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And your point? (other than sparring without head-gear).

I think it's great that you study a martial art and I think it's great that you do it with a 50+ year old, but this thread is all about what we are doing BESIDES firearms training for SD and Health purposes.

I really don't want to get into a sparring match (pun intended) about WHICH art is best because that will accomplish the same result as a discussion about which 1911 is best.

My goal is not to win cage fights. My goals are to learn viable self defense to protect myself from BG whether they are your general street thug or drunken moron. At the same time, I find it incredibly boring to go to a place that plays Brittany Spears music while running in place on a machine for an hour. I study the martial arts to keep physically fit and at the same time, pick up some useful skills.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:19 PM
blumpie blumpie is offline
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Krav is some serious ****! I wish there was a place to learn nearby. It's definatley on my tops list.
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:38 PM
N8RFastback N8RFastback is offline
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im of the mind frame that you should use hand to hand combat BEFORE you draw a weapon..

shooting someone should always be a last resort.

i would rather kick someones butt than just get into a match of words and end up shooting them over it.

chances are you wont kill someone in a hand to hand, but what are the odds your well placed bullitt will take his life? pretty good in my opinion.
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