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  #1  
Old 02-20-2020, 02:16 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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DW fit actual numbers

Hi all
I recently purchased my first DW it’s a Valkyrie in 45. I’ve consistently read everywhere how exceptional the fit is on these guns but without owning any other DW’s I can’t compare. First the machining on my gun is exceptional. No tool marks no burrs no sharp edges and all surfaces are flat parallel and true. Being a retired toolmaker of 40+ years I know good machining when I see it. But this is where it stops. The actual numbers on my gun confuse me because I have no base to compare to. I have .002-.0025 clearance between barrel and bushing. I have the same .002-.0025 between bushing and slide. I have .003-.004 clearance on all dimensions between slide and frame fit. The fit between slide stop pin and lower barrel lugs is good real good. I’m getting.04 of actual upper lug engagement out of a possible.048. Yes it’s actually.008 away from actually making any contact with slide in the vertical lockup. I have researched this in another post and found this is common in any production based gun. My barrel hood is fit very well also with no more than .001 clearance on any given side. My biggest concern is the slide to frame fit. In my opinion it’s quite sloppy. I’m really looking for numbers from other DW owners to see if this is normal or did I get one that slipped through QC. I really appreciate any insight you other DW owners or 1911 owners in general can give me
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2020, 03:18 PM
jtq jtq is offline
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I've got to admit, I accidentally found this thread as I generally try to stay out of the Dan Wesson sub-forum, but I found it an interesting post.

Since you're fairly new and with just a few posts, I thought I'd read through a few of your other posts to get a background to help explain the thought process that went into this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
I really appreciate any insight you other... 1911 owners in general can give me
While I can appreciate a science experiment as much as the next guy, the only insight I can give is to put down the calipers and micrometers and just shoot and enjoy your gun.

I hope the fella's that pay attention to these kind of numbers can pop in and help you out, because I wish you well in your search for knowledge, but I have a handful of firearms and know the clearance numbers on none of them. I just shoot them.
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2020, 03:35 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Jtq
That’s exactly what I want to do. Shoot. I guess my biggest concern is did I get what I paid for. DW is not cheap and from all I’ve read you pay more for the quality. Now like I stated the quality of the machining is there but numbers don’t lie. To be honest I have a rock island that has numbers as good as my DW for a third the price. Now maybe I got lucky with the rock island and maybe I got a DW that slipped through the QC. This is what I’m trying to find out. I really appreciate your input and for that I thank you
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  #4  
Old 02-20-2020, 03:48 PM
mickeyd mickeyd is online now
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Wow, Iím speechless.
I truely donít know what to say because I donít know what my clearances are on my Valkyrie. I do know it looks, feels and shoots great, itís accurate and dependable.
Waiting for others to chime in.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2020, 04:37 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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I only have one question:




How does it SHOOT ?
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2020, 04:52 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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OP, you appear to know enough to measure, but do you know what the measurements mean?

What numbers, precisely, were you expecting? Why do these trouble you?

DWs certainly aren't the cheapest 1911 brand, but they're far from being expensive, comparatively speaking. They're also quite good, but they are production guns and shouldn't be held to the same clearance standards or expectations of upper-tier brands or customs.

Most importantly, it sounds like you haven't put round one downrange. Your numbers will tell less the story of this pistol than good shooting will. Try that first, then you can begin to determine if there's an issue.
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2020, 05:31 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubfromGa View Post
I only have one question:




How does it SHOOT ?
The gun shoots great. I’ve put hundreds of rounds through it of all different types of ammo. It does not like steel cased ammo at all but that is no concern really. Out of a precision shooting rest it will average around 3” groups at 25 yds regardless of ammo
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:16 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
OP, you appear to know enough to measure, but do you know what the measurements mean?

What numbers, precisely, were you expecting? Why do these trouble you?

DWs certainly aren't the cheapest 1911 brand, but they're far from being expensive, comparatively speaking. They're also quite good, but they are production guns and shouldn't be held to the same clearance standards or expectations of upper-tier brands or customs.

Most importantly, it sounds like you haven't put round one downrange. Your numbers will tell less the story of this pistol than good shooting will. Try that first, then you can begin to determine if there's an issue.

Ok I’m not sure what you mean by asking do I know what the numbers mean? They are measurements nothing more nothing less. I was also not trying to compare this gun with higher tiered or custom guns although there are many DW owners who would say they are as good and sometimes better. Anything that is built in production has QC and no QC department is 100% If you read my post it clearly stated I don’t know if my guns numbers are good or bad without a baseline for comparison. That’s why I’m here to ask other owners what their guns check so I can be educated and have a baseline for comparison. Also where did you get the assumption that I have not shot this gun? I have put hundreds of rounds through it. The fact of the matter is that is totally irrelevant to the information I’m looking for. I’ll say this again I’m just trying to find out if the measurements on my gun are that what is expected from a quality production gun manufacturer. And your comment (Your numbers will tell less the story of this pistol than good shooting will) makes absolutely no sense at all. Thank you for your comments they are greatly appreciated and welcomed
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:16 PM
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AZ Husker AZ Husker is offline
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Certainly nothing to sneeze at! I think DW's are the best 1911 for the money. And I've got some high end ones!
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:59 PM
earlyjune earlyjune is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
To be honest I have a rock island that has numbers as good as my DW for a third the price.
I picked up a new DW Valkyrie for $900, they are closing them out at different places, makes the RIA not as much of a value.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:11 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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I’ve simply never put my calipers on any of my pistols.


I have no idea what they’d measure. I briefly had a 5” Colt Wiley Clapp that rattled if you shook it. Was 100% reliable, but accuracy wasn’t to my liking. It would be interesting to have that same gun back and compare its measurements to any of my DW guns.....which lock up nice and tight.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:54 AM
rbert0005 rbert0005 is offline
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How is it when it’s in the lockup position?

As a toolmaker you should be familiar with the term working tolerance.
Maybe you could get a kuhnhausen manual and compare the specs with your numbers

Bob
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  #13  
Old 02-21-2020, 08:59 AM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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I've owned several Dan Wessons and the only time I've had a looser slide to frame fit than usual is with a couple of aluminum frame guns. All of my steel framed guns were very good.
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2020, 01:45 PM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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For a production 1911, you will not find a better value, higher quality parts, better quality fit and finish than a DW.

DW is not and does not claim to be a semi-custom or custom 1911. Save the measurements above for 1911s $4K and up.

I own 6 DWs. Five are aluminum framed guns. Four are as tight in just about every way as my 6 Wilsons. One is not. The difference between my Wilson's and DWs comes in the fitting and blending of parts; some of which is cosmetic.
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  #15  
Old 02-21-2020, 01:47 PM
Harrish Harrish is offline
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For a production 1911, you will not find a better value, higher quality parts, better quality fit and finish than a DW.

DW is not and does not claim to be a semi-custom or custom 1911. Save the measurements above for 1911s $4K and up.

I own 6 DWs. Five are aluminum framed guns. Four are as tight in just about every way as my 6 Wilsons. One is not. The difference between my Wilson's and DWs comes in the fitting and blending of parts; some of which is cosmetic.
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  #16  
Old 02-21-2020, 07:04 PM
Bowdrie Bowdrie is offline
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Papafluff,, I've read the similar post of yours over in the "Gunsmithing" forum, and decided to take some of the same measurements as you did.
The results I got seem to indicate that my DW was machined to pretty close tolerances, but having never handled nor fired an Ed Brown, or a Wilson, or any other "high-end" gun I can't pass any judgement or comparison.
It's OK,, I like it, it's a nice/smooth pistol that without a doubt will shoot better than I'll ever be able to.
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2020, 07:22 PM
DubfromGa DubfromGa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
The gun shoots great. Iíve put hundreds of rounds through it of all different types of ammo. It does not like steel cased ammo at all but that is no concern really. Out of a precision shooting rest it will average around 3Ē groups at 25 yds regardless of ammo

Sounds great.

Reliable & accurate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by earlyjune View Post
I picked up a new DW Valkyrie for $900, they are closing them out at different places, makes the RIA not as much of a value.


Ain't that the truth.

The Valkyrie may be the best deal to be found if one shops around a bit.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrish View Post
For a production 1911, you will not find a better value, higher quality parts, better quality fit and finish than a DW.

DW is not and does not claim to be a semi-custom or custom 1911. Save the measurements above for 1911s $4K and up.

I own 6 DWs. Five are aluminum framed guns. Four are as tight in just about every way as my 6 Wilsons. One is not. The difference between my Wilson's and DWs comes in the fitting and blending of parts; some of which is cosmetic.

I'm finally beginning to fully understand this.


Took me a while.

With the DW guns, I have a gun with a super feeling trigger, no internals that I want to replace, well fitted, match barrels, nice finishes and so far I'm a fan of the grips that have come on each of them.

The only two changes I've considered were the front sight and addition of checking on an RZ-10. The sight I can manage on my own.
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2020, 09:59 PM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
Papafluff,, I've read the similar post of yours over in the "Gunsmithing" forum, and decided to take some of the same measurements as you did.
The results I got seem to indicate that my DW was machined to pretty close tolerances, but having never handled nor fired an Ed Brown, or a Wilson, or any other "high-end" gun I can't pass any judgement or comparison.
It's OK,, I like it, it's a nice/smooth pistol that without a doubt will shoot better than I'll ever be able to.

What measurements did you get. This is what I’m trying to find out?? All I want to know is if my DW measurements are the same as other DW’s or if I got one that on the loose side
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Old 02-22-2020, 12:39 AM
Bowdrie Bowdrie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
What measurements did you get. This is what Iím trying to find out?? All I want to know is if my DW measurements are the same as other DWís or if I got one that on the loose side
Go back to your thread in the Gunsmithing forum and read my post.
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2020, 06:17 AM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
What measurements did you get. This is what I’m trying to find out?? All I want to know is if my DW measurements are the same as other DW’s or if I got one that on the loose side
Go back to your thread in the Gunsmithing forum and read my post.

I went over and read your post. I apologize for not seeing it there I was tired last night and never checked the posts on that thread lol.
If my gun had the numbers your gun has I wouldn’t even be here. As you can see my gun has 2-3 times the clearance’s of yours. This is what I’ve been trying to find out from the start. Thank you for taking the time and providing the information I was seeking. You obviously read my post and understood what I was looking for.
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  #21  
Old 02-22-2020, 07:36 AM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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There are so many posts here that are completely off topic and completely irrelevant to the information I was looking for. A lot of them are basically saying I should just accept my gun because it’s a DW and they are known to be on the high end of quality when it comes to production based guns. I never disputed that in fact it’s why I paid the extra money for one in the first place. All I was trying to find out was if I got the extra quality I paid for. I was not obsessed with the numbers or trying to compare DW to custom guns costing a lot more. I was not downgrading DW on the contrary I mentioned the quality of the machine work. All I was trying to do was find out if my guns numbers were in the same ballpark as others. As it turns out they are not. So am I just supposed to assume because I bought a DW that it’s at the same quality as the others. I’m going to repeat myself again and state a fact. No QC department is 100%. Quality is more than just appearance it also has to do with numbers and tolerances that a manufactured item is held to. The very numbers that I’ve been advised to just ignore and accept just because of a name. DW is known for the quality of their fit and finish. The finish is visual the fit is numbers and my numbers do not match the quality DW is known for. I did not know this because I had no other DW’s to compare to. Well now I do and I’m so glad I took the time to inspect my investment and not just blindly accept it based on a name
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  #22  
Old 02-22-2020, 07:46 AM
Bradd D Bradd D is offline
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What really matters is how the numbers compare to the prints. Comparing to other guns is irrelevant.
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  #23  
Old 02-22-2020, 08:21 AM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papafluff View Post
There are so many posts here that are completely off topic and completely irrelevant to the information I was looking for. A lot of them are basically saying I should just accept my gun because itís a DW and they are known to be on the high end of quality when it comes to production based guns. I never disputed that in fact itís why I paid the extra money for one in the first place. All I was trying to find out was if I got the extra quality I paid for. I was not obsessed with the numbers or trying to compare DW to custom guns costing a lot more. I was not downgrading DW on the contrary I mentioned the quality of the machine work. All I was trying to do was find out if my guns numbers were in the same ballpark as others. As it turns out they are not. So am I just supposed to assume because I bought a DW that itís at the same quality as the others. Iím going to repeat myself again and state a fact. No QC department is 100%. Quality is more than just appearance it also has to do with numbers and tolerances that a manufactured item is held to. The very numbers that Iíve been advised to just ignore and accept just because of a name. DW is known for the quality of their fit and finish. The finish is visual the fit is numbers and my numbers do not match the quality DW is known for. I did not know this because I had no other DWís to compare to. Well now I do and Iím so glad I took the time to inspect my investment and not just blindly accept it based on a name
The posts you find off-topic and irrelevant, yes, are not technically what you asked for, which was other DW measurements by which to compare yours and determine if you got a "lemon".

This is understood. Many posts got straight to the question of how the gun shoots as a shortcut around the error in your thinking about your DW -- specifically, that the measurements determine the quality. They don't; its reliability, accuracy and durability do.

How yours literally measures compared other DWs is the wrong criteria by which to assess if you "got the extra quality you paid for". No one is advising you to ignore the numbers because of the DW name, you're being advised that the numbers don't tell the story of the gun's quality.

In your other thread on the same question, EA put it well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory View Post
The truth of the matter is this. You have a really nice off the shelf production pistol that will shoot well and is nicely finished that has a lot more features than most at a slightly higher price point.

Dan Wesson guns are one hell of a bargain for what you get but make no mistake, itís still a production pistol with mostly drop in tolerances. Thereís no major hand fitting of any crucial components.

This post is what happens when people in the machine trade over obsess about things and break out the tools instead of just enjoying a nice pistol. I mean that in a good spirited way, not a dig.

Itís a nice gun at a reasonable price point. If it was any nicer it would be a grand more. Thereís a reason why a gunsmith fit barrel costs 4-500 bucks installed and frame fitting costs a couple hundred. Itís labor intensive.
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  #24  
Old 02-22-2020, 08:58 AM
GreenGoblin227 GreenGoblin227 is online now
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My dan Wesson valor 10mm has no wiggle room anywhere. Itís probably the best 1000 dollars Iíve ever spent. Iíve had several 1911ís. And seemed to only keep springfields for a while.

Sold all them. And only 2 1911ís in my stable is a BEC Springfield Build and a Dan Wesson Valor 10mm.

The Dan Wesson is a phenomenal gun for the money. Never any issues. Have about 700 rounds through it. No issues at all. Itís in my carry rotation as the EDC


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  #25  
Old 02-22-2020, 10:01 AM
papafluff papafluff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGoblin227 View Post
My dan Wesson valor 10mm has no wiggle room anywhere. It’s probably the best 1000 dollars I’ve ever spent. I’ve had several 1911’s. And seemed to only keep springfields for a while.

Sold all them. And only 2 1911’s in my stable is a BEC Springfield Build and a Dan Wesson Valor 10mm.

The Dan Wesson is a phenomenal gun for the money. Never any issues. Have about 700 rounds through it. No issues at all. It’s in my carry rotation as the EDC


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Pro

And another confirmation to my beliefs. Thank you
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