What's wrong with idpa? - Page 3 - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 11-12-2019, 02:45 PM
havanajim havanajim is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by waktasz View Post
You're allowed to have an opinion. It's wrong, but it's yours.
Humor.... I like it!!! Good job.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-12-2019, 03:37 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
Whats wrong with it?
The rules suck..

In an attempt to NOT be like USPSA, when IDPA was developed they focused so much on being realistic, they took too much of the fun out of it.
I don't think it's so much the 'realism', because I don't think they actually have realism. I think it's that they did so much stuff purely to be different from USPSA. The change to the scoring a couple years ago confirms my belief that it's designed to appeal to old fat people who are offended by the idea of running around and shooting stuff quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:03 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,169
Yeah, it's fun to watch the young speed demons run so hard they fall on their face, too.
Not a figure of speech.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #54  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:49 PM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by motosapiens View Post
I don't think it's so much the 'realism', because I don't think they actually have realism. I think it's that they did so much stuff purely to be different from USPSA. The change to the scoring a couple years ago confirms my belief that it's designed to appeal to old fat people who are offended by the idea of running around and shooting stuff quickly.
At its inception the goal of IDPA was to have a more realistic defensive shooting game than USPSA.......Period.

IDPA was started by several big names who were not happy with the USPSA game being so....gamey.

I think were really saying the same thing though.
__________________
Ex-Military, 20+ years 3-Gun competitor, Colt certified Armorer, NRA Instructor, NSRT Officer-Retired, LGS Guru.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:30 PM
Tim Burke's Avatar
Tim Burke Tim Burke is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: NC
Posts: 10,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
I don't know if the National Tactical Invitational is still going on
No. I believe the last one was in 2010.
__________________
TB., NC
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:56 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Peltier View Post
At its inception the goal of IDPA was to have a more realistic defensive shooting game than USPSA.......Period.

IDPA was started by several big names who were not happy with the USPSA game being so....gamey.

I think were really saying the same thing though.
IDPA was started by several big names who had gotten old and fat and were offended that they couldn't keep up with the younger better shooters, either in the movement part, or in the shooting part.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:00 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Yeah, it's fun to watch the young speed demons run so hard they fall on their face, too.
Not a figure of speech.
That happens as often to old slow people as it does to young fast folks. I've RO'd many thousands of shooters at area and national matches, and I've probably seen 5-7 people fall down in all that time. All kept good control of the gun.

I kinda get where wilson and those guys were coming from. I was in my 50's when i started shooting competitively, and after a bit I was winning (or close) local IDPA matches, so I was pretty shocked when I went to uspsa match to check it out and finished in the bottom 10%. Where we differ tho is that I didn't cry and quit and go do something else, since I like getting better more than I like 'winning'. I'm not in the bottom 10% anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:15 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,717
Getting old and fat.....

I really don't believe IDPA was started by shooters that were getting old and fat! I think it was started due to the ongoing equipment race in USPSA, where practical guns were no longer competitive, and the affluent shooters were using $3000 race guns with compensators......I know because I followed the equipment race and had a an STI 2011 race gun built when I was no longer competitive with a single stack .38 super 1911. At one time, there were no gun divisions in USPSA, so everyone competed with their choice of firearm. The pinnacle of my USPSA shooting performance was at a Regional match in Naples, FL with over 250 shooters, including several Grand Masters like Todd Jarret, Armando Valdez, and Joe Kessler..... I was a top A Class shooter, and placed 10th overall against all competitors and won a pistol for my effort. I was in my early forties and in good shape.....not old and fat!

Now, both IDPA and USPSA have different gun divisions. The pistol caliber carbine, the carry optics division, and the compact carry division are newer divisions in IDPA.

I am still competing as a 68 year old Super Senior in USPSA, IDPA, Action Steel, and 3-gun. Now that I am older and heavier, I no longer have visions of placing High Overall across all gun divisions, but I still enjoy competitive shooting! I go to have fun.....and if it gets to the point where it is no longer fun, I will do something else that is!!!

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 11-13-2019 at 05:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 11-13-2019, 06:16 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
I really don't believe IDPA was started by shooters that were getting old and fat! I think it was started due to the ongoing equipment race in USPSA, where practical guns were no longer competitive, and the affluent shooters were using $3000 race guns with compensators......I know because I followed the equipment race and had a an STI 2011 race gun built when I was no longer competitive with a single stack .38 super 1911. At one time, there were no gun divisions in USPSA, so everyone competed with their choice of firearm. The pinnacle of my USPSA shooting performance was at a Regional match in Naples, FL with over 250 shooters, including several Grand Masters like Todd Jarret, Armando Valdez, and Joe Kessler..... I was a top A Class shooter, and placed 10th overall against all competitors and won a pistol for my effort. I was in my early forties and in good shape.....not old and fat!

Yeah I agree. They may be old and fat now, but not when they conceived and founded the sport.
Attached Thumbnails
Bill-Wilson-back-in-the-day-1.jpg  
__________________
Ex-Military, 20+ years 3-Gun competitor, Colt certified Armorer, NRA Instructor, NSRT Officer-Retired, LGS Guru.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 11-13-2019, 10:45 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,717
Photo on the above post.....

I recognize Bill Wilson in the photo, but who is the person standing to his right in the photo...??
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:39 PM
davidalyn davidalyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,109
I think that is Ken Hackathorn. If so, he is older but defenitley not fat. I see him fairly regularly.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 11-13-2019, 09:24 PM
Colt4570 Colt4570 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: N.E.Ohio
Posts: 8
IDPA was started because of the rules for IPSC were getting complex and going to a complete race game where the sport really started back in the day with 5" 1911's mostly and revolvers being used for protection, as time went on, The Games began,,,,, as it evolved as time went on many and I mean many wanted to bring just a simple .45 1911 division into the sport so guys could compete amongst their own division and the USPSA board listened with deaf ears, after a few years several got together and formed a simple game called IDPA with 4 divisions for standard firearms without spending a ton of money to compete,, the original rule book had 18 rules only and that lasted for approx 8 years before the change started to occur.

I know this is my first post but that's how it started.

IDPA started with the intent of slow growth but it grew extremely fast with members, in other words faster than they expected and they were playing catch up with rules and additions for changes for rules and such.

I could go on but I hope you guy's got the point.


In my opinion whats wrong with IDPA is there's way to many rules involved, it need's to start over!
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 11-13-2019, 09:25 PM
Colt4570 Colt4570 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: N.E.Ohio
Posts: 8
And yes,,,, That is Ken Hackathorn standing next to Bill.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 11-14-2019, 07:17 AM
M-Peltier M-Peltier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,374
It is Ken Hackathorn.
__________________
Ex-Military, 20+ years 3-Gun competitor, Colt certified Armorer, NRA Instructor, NSRT Officer-Retired, LGS Guru.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 11-14-2019, 08:27 AM
jmorris jmorris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,739
I played IDPA for more than a decade before Joyce took it over and the rules of the game went on a roller coaster ride that bucked me off. That said, I think the point was to get rid of folks like me. So in that aspect they were successful.

Short memory of folks but think about getting into USPSA two years after the federal assault weapons ban when a mag over 10 rounds were insanely expensive. I remember wanting to sell some of my Glock 10mm mags because they were bringing over $200 ea. The POS ramline 10/22 mags were going for more than $130.

IDPA would never have gone anywhere if it wasnít for Bill but that Billís last name was Clinton.

USPSA didnít add divisions to accept IDPA shooters until after the sunset.

Last edited by jmorris; 11-14-2019 at 08:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 11-14-2019, 08:52 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,169
I have a long memory on the magazines.
Early in AWB '94, USPSA said "No problem, there are plenty of grandfathered magazines for you to get into USPSA with." Then the prices started to climb.

Then we started seeing "replacement parts," then we started seeing "parts kits." Of course the catalogs said "Not lawful to assemble into high capacity ammunition feeding device." but what do you think was going on when match vendors were selling all the bits of a double stack magazine in the same baggie?

Even in national publications we saw "magazine cloning" with one pre-ban part and the rest new; and "I ran over my magazine carrier with the lawnmower, I have to fix them."

I was very surprised that the Feds did not run a sting on a vendor or shooter.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 11-19-2019, 04:12 PM
Lppd4 Lppd4 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,054
I think IDPA was started because Bill Wilson needed even more money. 1 billion was not enough
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:46 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,717
One Billion dollars was not enough.....

Bill Wilson's net worth for all the years he has worked is purported to be 78 million dollars......although he is not a "billionaire," my hat is off to him for doing so well financially! As an entrepreneur, he has built his business and deserves his success!

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 11-20-2019 at 04:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 11-20-2019, 07:31 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,169
I doubt that Bill makes a lot of money off of IDPA or guns shot in IDPA.
Expensive guns like Wilsons are not very common at the matches I go to.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 11-20-2019, 02:05 PM
liggett liggett is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,834
I resemble that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motosapiens View Post
I don't think it's so much the 'realism', because I don't think they actually have realism. I think it's that they did so much stuff purely to be different from USPSA. The change to the scoring a couple years ago confirms my belief that it's designed to appeal to old fat people who are offended by the idea of running around and shooting stuff quickly.
I DO shoot both sports and on a regular basis. Along with the Wife. However, due to the fact that I and my Wife are members now of the above mentioned "old fat people" class, we prefer shooting IDPA because of less distance traveled DURING each stage.

I remember a USPSA match last summer where I was prepping my gear after getting out of the truck and a young buck asked to borrow my chair to change shoes. Yep, track spikes, STEEL, track spikes. I chuckled because I lost my soccer cleats 50 years ago. USPSA is basically a track meet with guns. If there is another sport comparison it would be biathalon, only shooting WHILE skiing!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 11-20-2019, 02:44 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,169
Even the indoor USPSA match I was packing for calls for as much movement as the space allows. Not just from target to target, but a long run up from the starting box to the first target. Why not start within a couple of steps from the first array?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 11-20-2019, 10:14 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by liggett View Post
USPSA is basically a track meet with guns. If there is another sport comparison it would be biathalon, only shooting WHILE skiing!
That's what people who aren't good at shooting like to pretend.

FWIW, even at 58, I am not fat. I am in better shape than the vast majority of uspsa competitors, but even when I set up a stage with a 150 yards of running (at an annual 1911 only outlaw match), I still get beat by a fat guy that shoots well. Running is alot less important than people think, and is typically just used as an excuse by people who suck at shooting too.

I personally like the more physically challenging stages because it gives me a reason to keep working out instead of getting old and fat and dying soon, but I've done enough of every kind of stage to realize it doesn't have any effect on the top finishers.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:39 AM
waktasz waktasz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by liggett View Post
I DO shoot both sports and on a regular basis. Along with the Wife. However, due to the fact that I and my Wife are members now of the above mentioned "old fat people" class, we prefer shooting IDPA because of less distance traveled DURING each stage.

I remember a USPSA match last summer where I was prepping my gear after getting out of the truck and a young buck asked to borrow my chair to change shoes. Yep, track spikes, STEEL, track spikes. I chuckled because I lost my soccer cleats 50 years ago. USPSA is basically a track meet with guns. If there is another sport comparison it would be biathalon, only shooting WHILE skiing!
You don't HAVE to run. You can shoot and move at your own pace. It's nice to have a choice though. IDPA limits total movement on a stage to what now, 15 yards? They also limit shot difficulty by rule, to protect their fragile shooters.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:44 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,169
You know the original question was about alternatives with "relaxed rules" not about why the expert geniuses shoot the more challenging game.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:55 AM
waktasz waktasz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,613
I do both, when the mood suits me.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved