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  #26  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:15 PM
bbbean bbbean is offline
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I wonder how many of the "night sights are only useful in total darkness and that never happens" posters have actually wandered their house or property at night to check out a strange noise?

I've found that even when light conditions are sufficient to use black sights, the added light from the tritium has the same effect in low light as a fiber optic in bright sunlight. It draws the eye to the sights a little quicker.
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  #27  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:41 PM
Vincent Vega Vincent Vega is offline
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I used to not have any night sights on any of my pistols but got Novak night sights installed on both my Glocks that I carry. They are good for me in daylight, almost pointless in pitch black but really shine during low light conditions where you have enough light for target discrimination but will have trouble distinguishing the sight from the target.
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  #28  
Old 04-09-2009, 01:18 AM
chifus chifus is offline
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I agree with bbean.

If at all possible i would like to be in a dark place and the BG in a bright one. Just spent a ton on fixing the lighting in my house with that in mind. Tritium sights (both rear and front) are great for me.

I guess it depends a lot on everyone's eyesight and preferences though. I dont have any problems with the rear sights getting confused with front sight, but some people do. Most people do well with plain black iron sights, but they dont help me out one bit ( i need the big shiny ones).

If its at close range, i wont even use the sights, but its nice to know i have a good option at medium range.
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  #29  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:44 AM
russphoto russphoto is offline
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Im sure any thing you ask on this website you will get pros and cons. I have night sites on both of my main carry guns, but not on any other weapons I own. The Springfield ultra Compact 45 has the tritium 3 dot set up I had installed about two years ago, my back up Beretta Tom Cat (Alleycat) version has a night sight on the front only. Its not near as bright as on my Springer.
I kinda like them, can see no downside.
But I sure would not want a (tactial light) on a rail as it would show everyone where my gun is. I do grab a flashlight when I get up at night to check out noises.
But then again... everyone has an opinion, so do what you like.
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  #30  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:32 AM
Emanon Emanon is offline
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When what I care about is on the line, I'll take all the "Edge" I can get.

+1 for Night Sights
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  #31  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:36 AM
ken_mays ken_mays is offline
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The problem with most night sights is that they aren't very easily seen unless it's dark enough for the tritium to glow.

My carry guns get a tritium front, and if they are the typical "tritium vial in a black sight" sort, I will paint the front sight blade white so I can find it when it's too dark for a blackish sight.

What I have learned in training is that sight alignment in low light is not a huge deal. Your presentation from holster should automatically get you on target in a close range encounter; sights are simply to verify this. And if you're not 100% pointed at the spot you're aiming for, your first shot will silhouette your sights long enough to allow you to correct.

But tritium is nice if you can get it.
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:56 AM
bbbean bbbean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken_mays View Post
The problem with most night sights is that they aren't very easily seen unless it's dark enough for the tritium to glow.
If its not dark enough to notice the glow, its bright enough that you aren't having any problems seeing your sights. My front porch light also isn't very useful during the day, but it sure is handy at night!

Thats why they call them **night** sights.

FWIW, I'm very interested in the tru-glo tritium/fiber optic combo sights. I've heard they're still a little fragile, but they do sound like the best of both worlds. When they (or someone else) comes out with a tougher version, that'll be the sight of choice for my carry guns.

Last edited by bbbean; 04-09-2009 at 10:29 AM.
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:42 AM
ken_mays ken_mays is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
If its not dark enough to notice the glow, its bright enough that you aren't having any problems seeing your sights. My front porch light also isn't very useful during the day, but it sure is handy at night!

Thats why they call them **night** sights.

FWIW, I'm very interested in the tru-glo tritium/fiber optic combo sights. I've heard they're still a little fragile, but they do sound like the best of both worlds. When they (or someone else) comes out with a tougher version, that'll be the sight of choice for my carry guns.
The problem is that if it's that dark, there's a good chance you'll have trouble aiming at the target's vital areas.

Also, you may be in a situation where your gun is illuminated and your target is not, or vice versa. I like to be able to pick up my front sight quickly and definitively, so that's why I like a white front sight.

I have Tru-Glo's on a G19 and they're pretty good, though not as bright as a dedicated FO or tritium sight. I do wish you could buy the front sight separately.
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:26 AM
bbbean bbbean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken_mays View Post
The problem is that if it's that dark, there's a good chance you'll have trouble aiming at the target's vital areas.
It doesn't have to be that dark for your front sight acquisition to be faster with night sights. And, fwiw, I've shot at enough possums, coyotes, and feral critters at night to know that there are plenty of situations where there is enough light to see what you're shooting at, but have a hard time making out un-illuminated sights.

For that matter, walking around my semi-lit house at night (i.e., nightlights only), those tritium dots shine like stars, and there's still enough light to see another person and determine whether its my son or a bad guy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ken_mays View Post
Also, you may be in a situation where your gun is illuminated and your target is not, or vice versa.
Night sights won't hurt a thing in that situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken_mays View Post
I like to be able to pick up my front sight quickly and definitively, so that's why I like a white front sight.
Good for you. Glad you found what works for your specific needs. Of course, you could have a white sight with a tritium dot. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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  #35  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:30 AM
bbbean bbbean is offline
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FWIW, I read an article about a stage on the Single Stack Classic a few years back that had shooters engage targets in a dark room. There was enough light to see the targets, but many competitors complained they couldn't see their sights well enough to do anything besides point shoot.

Guess who excelled at the stage - the guys who had night sights on their guns. They were able to throw a lot more Alphas and a lot fewer Charlies, Deltas, and Mikes.
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2009, 12:12 PM
liliysdad liliysdad is offline
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Front night sight only.
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  #37  
Old 04-09-2009, 01:31 PM
ken_mays ken_mays is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
For that matter, walking around my semi-lit house at night (i.e., nightlights only), those tritium dots shine like stars, and there's still enough light to see another person and determine whether its my son or a bad guy.
I've determined the same thing. I still think they can be very useful; but I don't think not having them is going to be the disaster that some people think.

Quote:
Of course, you could have a white sight with a tritium dot. They aren't mutually exclusive.
I do like to get both; I've got them on probably a dozen guns. The XS standard dot is pretty good but still thicker than I like. The Trijicon or Mepro white outlined dot is OK but I prefer to paint the face of a regular tritium sight.
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2009, 02:31 PM
will227457 will227457 is offline
 
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for me plain wide notch novacks on the rear, night sight on the front...this is for HD.....for competition I use a fiberoptic on the front
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2009, 05:37 PM
Apprentice Apprentice is offline
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And I am ususally trying to expand the range of circumstances I can manage, not limit them to "most likely". My near point blank initial encounter could rapidly expand to longer distance while moving to cover from incoming or an accompliss from a more distant overwatch position could join the fray.
Also, I am decidedly NOT in the PS camp (beyond spitting distance anyway).
Good stuff this.
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  #40  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:07 PM
11,43mm 11,43mm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprentice View Post
And I am ususally trying to expand the range of circumstances I can manage, not limit them to "most likely".
While this is true, we're all making compromises based on what's practical and affordable. Because the criteria are unique to each of us, we argue about who's most "prepared" and that's how we end up with "what gun for the shower?" threads. There's always someone who takes it a little further than you. Who wears body armor 24/7? Who carries 100 rounds of ammo? What if? We all draw the line somewhere.

If NS lasted longer, didn't require sending the slide out for new vials, and showed a decisive advantage in all circumstances, I'd keep spending money on them. But I prefer things that don't go bad or require the proper ambient light or level of charge to work.
Murphy does know where I live () so I don't bank on the unreliable.
And I accept the limitations of a handgun in a self-defense role, although it's my primary. I like them as simple and stupid as a hammer.
Again, that's a very personal opinion, and I do realize the value of NS. I think I'm not the only one who's non-plussed by them, however.
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  #41  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:51 PM
R_CRUZ R_CRUZ is offline
 
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Another vote for tritium front only.
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  #42  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:52 PM
bbbean bbbean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11,43mm View Post
If NS lasted longer, didn't require sending the slide out for new vials,
My oldest set of night sights is close to 15 yrs old, and they still sit on the gun I keep my the bedside. I'm not sure what you mean about sending the slide out.
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  #43  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:11 PM
11,43mm 11,43mm is offline
 
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Replacing vials isn't DIY; you'll have to ship the slide to Trijicon or have your smith do the same. Installing the whole NS set is easier.
My MMCs are 8 years old and burnt out (faded around 5). The front on my CBOB was DOA. Just from reading the forums I know I'm far from alone. If the fix was as simple as changing batteries, I might be more enthusiastic.
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  #44  
Old 04-10-2009, 07:44 PM
Apprentice Apprentice is offline
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11.43

+1 Great points well made. I would also be fine without them.
I mostly wanted to debunk the "tritium is all show and no go" line of reasoning.
I agree with you about the compromises up and down the spectrum.
Best regards.

Last edited by Apprentice; 04-11-2009 at 10:03 AM.
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  #45  
Old 04-10-2009, 11:14 PM
11,43mm 11,43mm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprentice View Post
I mostly wanted to debunk the "tritium is all show and no go" line of reasoning.
No argument from me there. We're just expressing different preferences. I have no doubt that they are useful in certain situations.

I just realized after a while that I was carrying my J-frame confidently w/o them, and wondered why I felt the need to put them on my 1911. That made me question the use I had in mind for my primary.
Some PDs around here deny lasers, extended mags and mounted lights to CCWers (and I think off-duty officers). I came to the conclusion that they're afraid that a weapon so equipped will encourage you to go looking for trouble (playing offense), instead of retreating ASAP (playing defense). While I resent the forced limitations, I understand the message.

But there's no denying that any edge is good by definition.
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  #46  
Old 04-10-2009, 11:43 PM
Ben B. Ben B. is offline
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I recently shot a night match. On the flashlight stages, it didn't matter what type of sight. On the low-light-without-flashlight stages, tritium was a BIG advantage.
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  #47  
Old 04-11-2009, 10:33 AM
TAckerman TAckerman is offline
 
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Let's remeber that a VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE of CCW altercations happen in "Low Light" (Street Light or "Dark Alley" ) situations. So a Tritium Fornt site is perfect for that. I agree that in total darkness you better have a light, but how many of us are EVER in "Total Darkness". I am never, nit even in ny bedroom! I have night lites throughout my house to ID a target as well as a SF with me at all times.

And *** is up with those saying a "Civilian doesn't need nite sites but a LEO or Mil. might? Why is it any different? If you're a CCW holder you're in the same situations as a LEO indoors and outdoors. I just don't follow that logic at all.

My setup is a 10-8 .140" U Notch rear and a Tritium front. Anything a Brass, Bronze or Gold dot front can do...a Tritium without a white outline can do better. If you don't agree....tell me why!

Actually the best night setup is with a Laser Site and Flashlight if you want to have the ultimate night time weapon. Ask Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn and others in those ranks.
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  #48  
Old 04-11-2009, 10:37 AM
DevilDave1911 DevilDave1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pomyc View Post
That is the question...?

I have read various opinions from the experts. I have a Kimber Pro Carry HD (pre series II) in with Chuck Rogers getting some custom work done and I got to thinking, what about the sights? The gun has only the factory sights, solid black fixed. My other two CCW 1911s came from the factory with nights but, quite honestly, I am having a hard time trying to figure out why I need to spend a couple hundred more bucks on night sights.

So, what do you all think?
YOU'D be insane to not get Chuck's Tier One sights put on your gun....no night sights....just his awesome white ball front, plain notch rear tier ones...dude, its Chucks sight!! He put them on my CBOB and whoa nelly...they look awesome...can't wait to get it back this week.
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  #49  
Old 04-11-2009, 11:18 AM
bbbean bbbean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11,43mm View Post
Some PDs around here deny lasers, extended mags and mounted lights to CCWers (and I think off-duty officers). I came to the conclusion that they're afraid that a weapon so equipped will encourage you to go looking for trouble (playing offense), instead of retreating ASAP (playing defense). While I resent the forced limitations, I understand the message.
How can they legally do that? Are you saying that a gun legal to carry in one city is illegal in the next town down the road?

The message I get from that is the police dept wants you to dumb down your gun. Personally, when it comes to self defense, I want every single advantage. I'm glad my state doesn't force me to give the advantage to the bad guys.
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  #50  
Old 04-11-2009, 11:25 AM
bbbean bbbean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAckerman View Post
And *** is up with those saying a "Civilian doesn't need nite sites but a LEO or Mil. might? Why is it any different? If you're a CCW holder you're in the same situations as a LEO indoors and outdoors. I just don't follow that logic at all.
Amen, brother, testify! For that matter, most police and military have a radio to call for lots of well armed buddies on the pronto. If you or I ever need to use our weapons, its going to be us and the bad guy until somebody falls or leaves.

I don't get the notion of handicapping self defense. Seld defense isn't like a USPSA/IDPA stage where you handicap shooters to make it more interesting.
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