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  #26  
Old 03-22-2009, 12:32 AM
SRJim SRJim is offline
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Did you really think this even needed to be asked?

So have you found a new gun shop or will you continue to use that one for the entertainment value? It's better than the monkeys on cages at the zoo, these guys can speak and aren't behind bars but the monkeys have the mental advantage.
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  #27  
Old 03-22-2009, 12:34 AM
11,43mm 11,43mm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdogg View Post
Um, since when do gun manufacturers sue there customers over shootings involving there products?
Since never.
Car manufacturers specify in the manual that must wear your seat belt. What if you take the belts apart and you have an accident? Your injured passenger(s) could sue you, but couldn't go after the auto company because it sold a car with safety equipment that it advised you to use. They've covered their backsides and that's all that matters to them. The auto company would have no grounds suing you, OTOH, because it is not an injured party. Same thing.
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  #28  
Old 03-22-2009, 01:10 AM
kdogg kdogg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11,43mm View Post
Since never.
Car manufacturers specify in the manual that must wear your seat belt. What if you take the belts apart and you have an accident? Your injured passenger(s) could sue you, but couldn't go after the auto company because it sold a car with safety equipment that it advised you to use. They've covered their backsides and that's all that matters to them. The auto company would have no grounds suing you, OTOH, because it is not an injured party. Same thing.
Well yeah, that is what I'm saying. I've never heard of such a thing.
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  #29  
Old 03-22-2009, 01:20 AM
11,43mm 11,43mm is offline
 
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I know, brother. We're on the same page. This salesman obviously doesn't have his facts straight.
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  #30  
Old 03-22-2009, 08:40 AM
R_CRUZ R_CRUZ is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHjr View Post
This is going to be long but I need to explain what I encountered today. Please bear with me.
A friend and I stopped by a gun shop today after a IDPA match. The shop is called Duncan’s Outdoor Shop in Bay City, MI. The first gun I checked out was the CZ75 SP-O1 Tactical. I thought the gun was Cocked and Locked capable. When I inquired about that mode of carry the young person behind the counter told me “No”, and “If I were to shoot someone while carry any cocked and locked pistol I would be sued by the manufacturer”. …….He told me a 1911 Colt was never designed to be carried cocked and locked. I asked if the same applied to HK USP’s and a SIG P220 Single Action …he and another older employee returned a stern “Yes”.
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  #31  
Old 03-22-2009, 08:58 AM
HHjr HHjr is offline
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I need to make it clear that my friend and I did not swallow one single letter of the shops BS. As one mentioned I should of called it BS in their face right then and I have no excuse for that ... but really,What good would it of done ?.... my heart rate was indeed elevating. We had been in the shop before and had fine experiences.

Even before this thread got 5 replies long Eric called me after reviewing his manual and said "I wish we had their names so we could write them a letter to tell them they are feeding their customers BS"

On the lighter side ... when we were there a guy was looking at a piece-O-junk Hi-Point 9mm .... he told the dude he'd get killed by his wife if he came home with another gun ..... I said "well, if your wife is going to kill you you might as well come home with something better than That !!"

I found the comments about the Leather makers disclaimer made in this thread interesting .... sign of these litigatous times for sure.

Been a fun weekend .... thank you everyone.

H
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  #32  
Old 03-22-2009, 09:31 AM
Electraclyde Electraclyde is offline
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I, also live in that area and frequent Duncan's as well as several other shops in the tri city area. ALL of them are a wealth of misinformation, and ALL seem to be worried about "lawsuits". I would rather be sued than dead!! That said, how would anyone know if your gun was cocked and locked?
As an aside, they are, for the most part "revolver" people.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2009, 10:19 AM
kdogg kdogg is offline
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I'm so glad I don't live on that side of the state lol.

I live over near Grand Rapids myself. Silverbullet Firearms and On Target are the best gun stores ever.
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  #34  
Old 03-22-2009, 01:48 PM
bubb64 bubb64 is offline
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It looks like idiots are working in gun shops in Michigan as well as New York.
Every wannabe expert seems to find those jobs.
That is one of those shops you go into because the price is right, and you know what you want, but for absolutely no other reason.
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2009, 02:04 PM
Huntmup Huntmup is offline
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It's BS. The manufacturer is going to sue you for what? They have no cause of action, simple as that.

Too many arm chair lawyers out there and this is a perfect example of that fact. The funny thing is that these idiots keep a fair share of attorneys in business.
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  #36  
Old 03-22-2009, 02:36 PM
SatCong SatCong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
I've heard more pure BS in gunshops than any other establishment, including bars.
You have that right.
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  #37  
Old 03-22-2009, 05:31 PM
11,43mm 11,43mm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHjr View Post
I need to make it clear that my friend and I did not swallow one single letter of the shops BS. As one mentioned I should of called it BS in their face right then and I have no excuse for that ... but really,What good would it of done ?.... my heart rate was indeed elevating. We had been in the shop before and had fine experiences.

Even before this thread got 5 replies long Eric called me after reviewing his manual and said "I wish we had their names so we could write them a letter to tell them they are feeding their customers BS"
I hope you don't feel too bad. I personally don't argue with idiots or the crazy. You can't make it a mission of yours to go from store to store, fighting misinformation. So many morons, so little time.
And mostly I hope that if you had any doubts that the guy might have been right, we've cleared that up.
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2009, 06:54 PM
sevenplusone sevenplusone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdogg View Post
I'm so glad I don't live on that side of the state lol.

I live over near Grand Rapids myself. Silverbullet Firearms and On Target are the best gun stores ever.
I concur...I frequent Silverbullet quite regularly. The guys for the most part know their stuff. I've heard a few bad ones, but they are much fewer and farther between. Also they tend to have the best handgun selection of any gun store I know.
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Last edited by sevenplusone; 03-23-2009 at 03:01 AM.
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2009, 08:44 PM
HHjr HHjr is offline
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Thanks 11,43mm and to all that have commented. All is cool I. I carried confidently before this little episode and will continue to do so.

Hope everyone has a great work week (or play) ahead.

H
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2009, 09:15 PM
RS2 RS2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHjr View Post
“If I were to shoot someone while carry any cocked and locked pistol I would be sued by the manufacturer”.


I've been a trial lawyer longer than that kid has been alive.

That's just about the most idiotic statement I've heard come out of any gun shop.
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  #41  
Old 03-22-2009, 09:26 PM
hdm25 hdm25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHjr View Post
I do not recall a single warning about carrying my cocked and locked 10mm Bilby Commander.
If carrying that Commander cocked & locked bothers you, I will take it off your hands for a fair price or even trade you some DA/SA or DAO pistols for it....

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  #42  
Old 03-22-2009, 10:13 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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A gun manufacturer is going to sue one of their customers.

For using one of their products to legally defend themselves. Somebody out there is smoking some pretty good stuff.

Just because you are paranoid does not mean that someone is not out to get you!
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  #43  
Old 03-23-2009, 03:02 PM
orutra orutra is offline
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Very few uniformed LE on the street have 1911's. That said, every one I have ever seen is in C1.
I would second the motion that your dealer needs to know what kind of an airhead he has working for him. On 2nd thought it might be the son of his mistress and maybe it's worth it to him.
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  #44  
Old 03-23-2009, 04:04 PM
HHjr HHjr is offline
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Sorry hdm25 .... you are about 15th in line for that Pocket Rocket. I have a Bilby 45 and a full house Delta as well ... but that little 10mm would be the very last firearm I own that, if forced, would I ever part with ....

I still chuckle just thinking about the gunshop comments ..... it was not funny Saturday ....

H
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  #45  
Old 03-24-2009, 09:21 PM
eel eel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHjr View Post
Sorry hdm25 .... you are about 15th in line for that Pocket Rocket. I have a Bilby 45 and a full house Delta as well ... but that little 10mm would be the very last firearm I own that, if forced, would I ever part with ....

H
H, don't you know of a full size Bilby 10mm for sale?
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  #46  
Old 03-25-2009, 09:56 AM
SHAFT SHAFT is offline
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I know it has already been covered, but the answer is an easy one. The staff at that store were "D" bags. Simple. Accurate.
For the record, the counter has two sides. The other day a GI informed one of my buddies "hey, do you know your pistol is cocked?!" I looked up with a smile, assuming that he was pulling out leg. Then I saw the alarmed look on his face.
To be honest, though, this was the same guy who told us his "grand dad" taught him NEVER to dry fire and that he could hit an O2 bottle at 900Y with an iron sighted Kar98K every time.
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  #47  
Old 03-25-2009, 10:37 AM
rgillis rgillis is offline
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HHjr,

I had to laugh when I read this, not at you but with you. I have had the exact same conversation with I am sure the exact same individuals at Duncan's. Glen, the owner, is a great guy and has done his share for the shooting sports and gun rights in Michigan and has a great business with good guys working for him. They do however seem to have a real issue with cocked and locked carry. The last time I was there was with my cousin, who is a new shooter and wanted to rent one of the handguns at the range. I had to listen to the wealth of disinformation shared by one of the sales staff concerning cocked and locked carry. After his dissertation, I politely told him I reserved my God given right to disagree with him and told him, in my mind the only way to carry a 1911 is cocked and locked. So I feel your pain man.

But to those who aren't familiar with Duncan's. Don't be overly severe in your judgement. It's a great shop and a great place to shoot!

Last edited by rgillis; 03-25-2009 at 02:32 PM.
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  #48  
Old 03-25-2009, 12:41 PM
joszx67 joszx67 is offline
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I'll chime in too. I think it is our responsibility as knowledgeable gun people (not me of course) to challenge misinformation when we encounter it. If we just let it go, I feel that novice or new shooter will take the misinformation as gospel and that could lead into other issues. It doesn't take a debate to get your point accross but let them know that their information is dubious at best (Nicely). Ask them to verify their information....It will at least put a doubt in their heads and maybe, they will verify their information. Just my .02 cents.

Best regards,
Joseph
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  #49  
Old 03-25-2009, 02:55 PM
HHjr HHjr is offline
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rgillis - Thanks for he first hand insight. We appreciate it. ..... I just do not understand why that shop is so paranoid about C&L carry.

Yes, again I should of called their B.S. right there but I have to say they Knew I was not buying it.

eel - I can not talk about it here on this forum

H
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  #50  
Old 03-25-2009, 03:13 PM
The Shootist The Shootist is offline
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Harold

Duncan's is notorious for hiring idiots. One told me I could be arrested for brandishing because I opened a pistol rug to show the "employee" that the pistol I brought in there was empty. I've never been back.

Don't believe a single word you hear from the back of that counter.

Mark
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