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Old 03-08-2009, 07:20 PM
R_CRUZ R_CRUZ is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 62
So far this has been a nice discussion, and I am having fun too!

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Old 03-08-2009, 09:35 PM
farley45 farley45 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by rosco benson View Post
it's funny how "out of sight, out of mind" applies to this situation. Most of the folks who are scared of a 1911 in condition one think nothing of carrying an ar-15 or remington 870 in condition one. I guess that if the cocked hammer is concealed, then it isn't so scary.

Unreasonable fears are just that; unreasonable.

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Old 03-09-2009, 01:33 AM
Madcap72 Madcap72 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mill Creek Wa
Posts: 1,303
Originally Posted by Pat-inCO View Post
Excellent question!

Each of the people claiming the Mode 1 is designed in seem to conveniently forget
that the military carried the 1911 in Mode 3.

I too would like to see the documentation for their statement about Mode 3 being designed in.
"42. To load PISTOL--The commands are: 1. LOAD, 2. PISTOL.
At the command pistol lower the pistol into the bridle hand.
If a loaded magazine is not already in the pistol, insert one.
Grasp the stock with the right hand, back of the hand down,
and thrust upward and to the left front; release the slide and
engage the safety lock"

Notice following the rules leave it in Con. 1?
0311 Primary
0331 Secondary
0351/0352 OTJ
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:32 AM
F16DCC F16DCC is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,401

More documentation

12. METHOD OF OPERATION.-a. A loaded magazine is placed in the receiver and the slide drawn fully back and released, thus bringing the first cartridge into the chamber. (If the slide is open push down the slide stop to let the slide go for- ward.) The hammer is thus cocked and the pistol is ready for firing. b. If it is desired to make the pistol ready for instant use and for firing the maximum number of shots with the least possible delay, draw back the slide, insert a cartridge by hand into the chamber of the barrel, allow the slide to close, then lock the slide and the cocked hammer by pressing the safety lock upward and insert a loaded magazine. The slide and hammer being thus positively locked, the pistol may be carried safely at full cock and it is only necessary to press down the safety lock (which is located within easy reach of the thumb) when raising the pistol to the firing position.

33. To LOAD PISTOL.--The commands are: 1. LOAD .. PIS- TOL. At the command pistol if a loaded magazine is not already in the pistol, insert one. Without lowering the right hand, turn the barrel slightly to the left. Grasp the slide with the thumb and fingers of the left hand (thumb on right side of slide and pointing upward). Pull the slide downward to its full extent (fig. 6). Release the slide and engage the safety lock.
It ain't how hard you can hit; it's about how hard ya can get hit and keep moving forward... Rocky Balboa, 2006.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:18 AM
TheTinMan TheTinMan is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,506
I'm leaving the rest of this post, but here are the key points IMNSHO:

1) Guns are intended to shoot bullets in the direction the barrel is pointed, and bullets are intended to kill.

2) Before you put a single bullet in a gun, you damn well better understand how that specific weapon works and what safeties are, and are not, present.

3) A pistol without a proper holster is a negligent discharge waiting to happen.

4) An unloaded pistol (including Condition 3 IMHO) is a dangerous paper weight if you ever need to defend yourself.

I have a question for the advocates of Condition 3 carry: would you carry a DAO revolver with an empty chamber so that you have to pull the trigger twice in order to get off your first shot? If not, how is a 1911 in Condition 1 less safe than your loaded DAO revolver?

I was uncomfortable about carrying "cocked & locked" before I understood the mechanics and internal safeties of the two weapons I own which can be carried that way.

Most of you are familiar with the 1911. The H&K USP can also be carried in Condition 1. It has the additional features of a manual decocker, double action (and therefore double-strike) option, and the thumb safety can be engaged regardless of whether or not the chamber is loaded or the hammer is cocked. Plus the thumb safety works exactly the same way as a 1911 (i.e. forward & down to fire). Consistency across platforms makes sense to me. The H&K does not have the added grip safety of the 1911 though.

I have DAO handguns and a Glock (whatever that qualifies as). As far as I'm concerned, a single action or DA/SA with a thumb safety is safer. I make an effort to remember that whenever I take possession of a DAO weapon.

OH, and thanks for the funny cartoon that started this all off!
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:18 AM
Stormin'N Stormin'N is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,355
Originally Posted by Asylum Keeper View Post
^ People, as a whole, are stupid.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity!
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:18 AM
KYSW1911Sc KYSW1911Sc is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kentucky
Age: 34
Posts: 445
The problem I have with people saying that since the military required Condition 3 that is the way we should carry is, their sidearms were their back up weapons. They had rifles as there main combat weapon, we do not carry around rifles, we only have the sidearm so being able to get it ready asap is high on my list.
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Stormin'N Stormin'N is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,355
Originally Posted by sevenplusone View Post
I have never once had my thumb safety disengage and I wear my DW CBob exclusively IWB unless at the range. Don't be ridiculous. It's safer for me, more dangerous for the bad guy.

Your Sig is more dangerous in my opinion. Which of the following conditions seems more likely?

1) A trigger getting snagged and pulled?

2) A trigger getting snagged and pulled after snagging the thumb safety to disengage it while depressing the grip safety to disengage it?
My CBOB hasn't either, but my Kimber (w/ambi safety has). the CBOB seems to have a much "Stiffer" snap to the safety requiring more force to disengage, and the lack of a lever on the unprotected side to trip on clothing, carseat belt, or whatever. This is on my list of things to fix.
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