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  #26  
Old 10-04-2019, 02:08 PM
Hawkeye fan Hawkeye fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
Nice, man you are making it really hard to avoid getting a second upper from LWRC for a "pistol" build after seeing how nicely setup your guns are. I kinda want a real short one too since my "pistols" are .300 and a 5.56 version has appeal to me
Thank you. I've been thinking myself about getting another SBR in .300blk but am still on the fence. I'm not on the fence about the caliber but just on what the end use of the rifle would be. I'm one of those persons that if I don't have a defined purpose for it I won't buy it.

Of all my AR's this is my favorite and the only one that I shoot under NVG's. I also love the MAWL over the PEQ15 but that's for another thread.
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  #27  
Old 10-07-2019, 05:16 AM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Both.

I've done three pistol builds this year...all 5.56x45 and now one is being converted to 300 blackout.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2019, 12:49 PM
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300 pistol I just built that will be converted to SBR in the next few weeks.

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  #29  
Old 10-22-2019, 12:57 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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This 1st SBR will be a 10.5 wylde w/ a muzzle can.
I am thinking very lightweight, on the order of plastic lower and titanium parts where I can.

Perhaps future SBR's will be in other cals.
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Last edited by 1911_Kid; 10-22-2019 at 12:59 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-22-2019, 01:23 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
This 1st SBR will be a 10.5 wylde w/ a muzzle can.
I am thinking very lightweight, on the order of plastic lower and titanium parts where I can.

Perhaps future SBR's will be in other cals.
Carbon barrel, most of the weight is there in an AR
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  #31  
Old 10-22-2019, 02:21 PM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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I agree with Striker .300blk subs seem to be a waste of time.
I shot some subs into a telephone pole and pulled them out. The noses were barely mushed over. I’d rather shoot full power .45s than .300blk subs. As he said better effect. I think a .300blk would probably zip right thru somebody?
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2019, 02:29 PM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
I agree with Striker .300blk subs seem to be a waste of time.
I shot some subs into a telephone pole and pulled them out. The noses were barely mushed over. I’d rather shoot full power .45s than .300blk subs. As he said better effect. I think a .300blk would probably zip right thru somebody?
That's exactly why I don't bother with them. In every case I tested a .45 HST did better than a sub, supers are fantastic though and kill things outright very nicely.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2019, 02:44 PM
Chowser Chowser is offline
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My 7.5” suppressed 300blk pistol.



It’s my in car pistol. Loaded with supers.
I have an 8.5” suppressed 300blk sbr for home use.
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2019, 03:28 PM
remanaz remanaz is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
This 1st SBR will be a 10.5 wylde w/ a muzzle can.
I am thinking very lightweight, on the order of plastic lower and titanium parts where I can.

Perhaps future SBR's will be in other cals.
I built a 4.5lbs with optic 16" using a FMK composite lower. It has been a good lower. Being only 4.5lbs it is super maneuverable. A SBR at this weight or lower would be awesome.


I built it back in 2015. There were people doing 16" builds that were even lower weight. I balanced cost with weight when selecting all the parts. I compared milspec weights to the lightweight options and looked at the weight saving vs cost ROI to pick my parts. Some parts just did not save enough weight to justify the price.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2019, 03:47 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by remanaz View Post
I built a 4.5lbs with optic 16" using a FMK composite lower. It has been a good lower. Being only 4.5lbs it is super maneuverable. A SBR at this weight or lower would be awesome.


I built it back in 2015. There were people doing 16" builds that were even lower weight. I balanced cost with weight when selecting all the parts. I compared milspec weights to the lightweight options and looked at the weight saving vs cost ROI to pick my parts. Some parts just did not save enough weight to justify the price.
If it weights less, I am buying it
I need to look at those carbon barrels to see what their accuracy and longevity is.
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:21 PM
remanaz remanaz is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
If it weights less, I am buying it
I need to look at those carbon barrels to see what their accuracy and longevity is.
You could easily reach $5000 going by that methodology.


Some of my choosing cost over lightest weight were things that would be something costing $50 more to save 3 grams for example. Yes grams equals ounces and ounces equal pounds but in this example saving one ounce would cost $472.92. I can live with that one ounce for that price. At this rate saving one pound would cost $7566.67.
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Last edited by remanaz; 10-22-2019 at 04:31 PM.
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:37 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by remanaz View Post
You could easily reach $5000 going by that methodology.


Some of my choosing cost over lightest weight were things that would be something costing $50 more to save 3 grams for example. Yes grams equals ounces and ounces equal pounds but in this example saving one ounce would cost $472.92. I can live with that one ounce for that price. At this rate saving one pound would cost $7566.67.
I played the lotto today
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:45 PM
remanaz remanaz is offline
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I won the lotto last week. . Not sure where to spend that $4 though.

That $50 for 3 grams was $6.66 over the limit I set myself which was $10 per gram. This was only applied when I got into the small parts and when two or more same parts were uber close in weight but price started to spread quite a bit. Other parts were bought based on weight and liking the part specifically without regard to cost.
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Last edited by remanaz; 10-22-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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  #39  
Old 10-23-2019, 05:39 AM
gregorym gregorym is offline
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If you're interested in subsonics for anything other than range giggles take a pass on 5.56 and go with something with more mass.

5.56mm 77 grain bullet at 1050 fps = 188 ft/lbs
.300 BO 220 grain bullet at 1050 fps = 539 ft/lbs**
.45 ACP 230 grain bullet at 1050 fps* = 563 ft/lbs

As Striker2237 and 7.62kolectr noted many of the available subsonic .300 BO offerings use bullets optimized to expand at greater than 2000 fps which impairs their terminal effect at subsonic velocities. However, Lehigh and Hornady now offer subsonic expanding ammo with 190 grain bullets. At 1050 fps that yields 465 ft/lbs

*not all 230 grain .45 ACP will reach 1050 out of pistol length AR barrels, although some likely will. I'm using that velocity only to give an apples to apples calculation.

**straight off my box of Atomic subsonics with 220 grain Sierra MatchKings.
This is my range giggles ammo.
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  #40  
Old 10-23-2019, 09:12 AM
Striker2237 Striker2237 is online now
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Originally Posted by gregorym View Post
If you're interested in subsonics for anything other than range giggles take a pass on 5.56 and go with something with more mass.

5.56mm 77 grain bullet at 1050 fps = 188 ft/lbs
.300 BO 220 grain bullet at 1050 fps = 539 ft/lbs**
.45 ACP 230 grain bullet at 1050 fps* = 563 ft/lbs

As Striker2237 and 7.62kolectr noted many of the available subsonic .300 BO offerings use bullets optimized to expand at greater than 2000 fps which impairs their terminal effect at subsonic velocities. However, Lehigh and Hornady now offer subsonic expanding ammo with 190 grain bullets. At 1050 fps that yields 465 ft/lbs

*not all 230 grain .45 ACP will reach 1050 out of pistol length AR barrels, although some likely will. I'm using that velocity only to give an apples to apples calculation.

**straight off my box of Atomic subsonics with 220 grain Sierra MatchKings.
This is my range giggles ammo.
I'll add this, look up .450 SMC and it will put the final nail in subsonic rifle ammos coffin. It is what I would use as the lead mag of HD rounds in a .45 suppressed SBR.

Plus we KNOW stuff like .45 HST +P expands great at those speeds
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  #41  
Old 10-23-2019, 09:39 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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I have moved away from sub ammo for this build
will build using a Wylde chamber, and a can at the end
and use std 223rem or 556nato

besides ballistics of the various subs, 300BO (sub or not) is just a barrel diff. getting into some of the other calibers is more than just a barrel diff.
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  #42  
Old 11-12-2019, 10:19 PM
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The .300 Blackout is still an evolving cartridge. At the moment most manufacturers simply cram a standard .308 bullet on top and call it good, but a few are starting to develop bullets specifically optimized for this round. It's only a matter of time before we start to see effective subsonic bullets in this caliber, which would make it excellent as a home defense weapon. Until then, as the others have noted you're better off sticking to supersonic ammo and being careful about where the bullet could possibly over-penetrate and terrorize the rest of the neighborhood.

As for short barrels, IMHO 5.56 is useless under 10.5" as the velocity loss is too great (as is the fireball created from the still-burning powder exiting the muzzle). By contrast the .300 Blackout is designed for short barrels as it uses fast-burning powder, and while it still gets maximum velocity in a 16" barrel the loss out of a 10" or shorter tube is minimal.

And as for SBRs, it seems until ATF changes its mind and decides to start cracking down on the legality of AR pistol mods you're better off going with a pistol as there are actually far fewer regulations regarding their possession and use. No tax stamp, no registration, and no asking Big Brother for permission to make changes to it or even to take it across state lines. Also many states allow loaded pistols in a vehicle but not rifles, which means once you SBR your AR pistol you won't be able to do as much with it.
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  #43  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
My next project, a lightweight SBR w/ can, tuned for sub ammo.
That said, should it be a nato556 or a 300blk?

What say you?
9” 300 Blackout
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  #44  
Old 11-13-2019, 09:56 AM
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The .300 Blackout is still an evolving cartridge.
No doubt, but I was surprised at the plethora of offerings out there. I’ve been accumulating some different super and sub loads, but haven’t really scratched the surface of what’s available. From range ammo to innovative cartridges by Lehigh Defense, Underwood, Hornady, Sig, etc...

I’ve only tested a few of these to evaluate how well they cycle. But, for the most part, the majority of these haven’t been fired yet. Kinda interesting just how much variance there is in the length/height of the various cartridges.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2019, 10:12 AM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Lightbulb

.300 works better in an SBR. THAT said, I'm not looking at expanding calibers at this point & time. But if I WAS... that's where I'd go.
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  #46  
Old 11-13-2019, 10:22 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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.300 works better in an SBR. THAT said, I'm not looking at expanding calibers at this point & time. But if I WAS... that's where I'd go.
Why does 300blk work better in an SBR?
300, 223, 556, will all cycle a AR15 SBR.
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
Why does 300blk work better in an SBR?
300, 223, 556, will all cycle a AR15 SBR.
The cartridge was designed for short barreled, suppressed rifle.
Powder burns completely in 9”, super reliable with subs when using a pistol length gas system
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2019, 04:22 PM
Descartian Descartian is offline
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556 in subs is about as effective as a 22mag.

Go with the 300. You can have a barrel as short as 8” and still run a can. In fact the round, the original 300 whisper, was designed around a 8” barrel.

Me I’d go 9-10.5” + can with super ammo.
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  #49  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:32 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by Faawrenchbender View Post
The cartridge was designed for short barreled, suppressed rifle.
Powder burns completely in 9”, super reliable with subs when using a pistol length gas system
I was just gonna do a 10" carbine Wylde w/ a can.

300 or 223/556 subs really dont have much hitting power.
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  #50  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:52 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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I love my suppressed 11.5" 300 Blk SBR for shooting coyotes. It's quiet enough that a group of 2 or 3 won't haul ass at the first shot. All they know is their buddy just decided to lay down. They'll stand there confused for a bit and that's plenty of time to get off another shot at a 2nd dog. That doesn't happen when they hear a 5.56 or any other non suppressed rifle round. They hear that first shot and they're hauling ass.
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