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  #1  
Old 03-27-2018, 11:51 AM
Kainjones Kainjones is offline
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SHTF dedicated “combat” knife?

Hello everyone. I have a random question for y’all. Say there’s a break down of society as we know it. Say it goes long term. You’ll be using blades frequently for a lot of the survival related tasks we practice now. Would you have a “dedicated” combat knife that you didn’t use for other tasks? Obviously, any blade can be pressed into any role and a lot of “tactical” knives have features that make it less then idea for bush related tasks. That’s besides the point. Would your daily carry fixed blade be a utility/combat knife? Would you have a different one you carried to leave the combat one as sharp as possible? I know most modern soldiers use their knives mostly for utility, anyway. Am I over thinking it? Any input would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
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  #2  
Old 03-27-2018, 12:15 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Knife fighting is a loosing proposition for all involved... even if you "win", its almost a forgone conclusion that you WILL get cut up yourself; its less a question of if and more 'how bad'...

As for having a knife dedicated to this task, nope...extra weight for a specialized tool that will rarely if ever be used isn't a brilliant idea.

If one wants a tool thats far more versatile, AND a far superior, almost intuitive weapon, I'd suggest looking into some of modern incarnations of the tomahawk. Chop, split, slice, dig... and a weapon, almost as intuitive as swinging a hammer.
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:25 PM
toofew1911s toofew1911s is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
Knife fighting is a loosing proposition for all involved... even if you "win", its almost a forgone conclusion that you WILL get cut up yourself; its less a question of if and more 'how bad'...

As for having a knife dedicated to this task, nope...extra weight for a specialized tool that will rarely if ever be used isn't a brilliant idea.

If one wants a tool thats far more versatile, AND a far superior, almost intuitive weapon, I'd suggest looking into some of modern incarnations of the tomahawk. Chop, split, slice, dig... and a weapon, almost as intuitive as swinging a hammer.
SHTF always involves more than just one scenario. You need both TOOLS and WEAPONS. I knife is simply a better all around tool than an axe or hatchet style implement for the vast number of survival situations due to it's smaller size and weight as well as narrow profile. However, for the things that an axe or hatchet works for, there are none better. When I was out bear hunting, I was armed with simply a bow and a knife - firearms were not allowed in the state in which I was hunting. Being approached by a 700 lb record class black bear with cubs at less than 2 yards was unnerving to say the least. But I can tell you that I appreciated every inch in length that my knife supplied as a backup and would not have preferred to be armed with a hatchet in the same circumstance.

That being said, I am a believer in both tools, and have not only an assortment of knives of different lengths and configurations but also some very nice Gransfors hatchets and small forest axes. To me, this isn't a case of knife vs hatchet but rather which models of both to have.
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:31 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Randall #1.......or their model 16 SP 01.
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:33 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Originally Posted by toofew1911s View Post
Being approached by a 700 lb record class black bear with cubs

is that a typo?
where the heck do Black bear sows grow 700 pounds ??


nevertheless, 6ft from a sow w/cubs would certainly be unnerving to me even if only 200 pounds....


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Old 07-11-2018, 05:03 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Red face

Against my own good advice, I DID just add A CKRT M16 to my battlebelt.





I always have a pocket knife on me - guess if I need to cut open a box of ammo faster during the apocalypse, this should git 'r' done.
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:50 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is online now
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Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
is that a typo?
where the heck do Black bear sows grow 700 pounds ??


nevertheless, 6ft from a sow w/cubs would certainly be unnerving to me even if only 200 pounds....


..L.T.A.
I know a few 200lb women that I keep my distance from..........
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:48 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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So tell us Otto.

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I know a few 200lb women that I keep my distance from..........
How well do you really know them?
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:54 AM
toofew1911s toofew1911s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
is that a typo?
where the heck do Black bear sows grow 700 pounds ??


nevertheless, 6ft from a sow w/cubs would certainly be unnerving to me even if only 200 pounds....


..L.T.A.
Lots of places....just not very often. The one I saw while hunting was just outside the borders of Yosemite State Park in California. The San Bernardino Mountains also have some very large black bears.

The bear I saw looked more like an Alaskan brown bear than a black bear, as it was brown rather than black and was so fat that the fat just rolled on her neck and front shoulders as she moved. She had 2 cubs with her, 1 black and 1 brown and each of the cubs weighed over 200 lbs. I am enclosing a picture of a record brown furred black bear taken 2 years ago in New Mexico. This looked to closest to the bear in my hunt than any other photo I have seen. Have never felt more vulnerable any time in my life - my 70 lb compound bow felt like straw in my hand.
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2018, 12:16 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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I prefer simple solutions in such matters, and I'm inclined to follow a well-proven, time-tested solution, rather than re-inventing things.

So, I simply go with the good ole KaBar USMC knife. Have several. Not too expensive, and very effective.

I do own a few much more costly boutique knives ... these are beautiful, finely crafted and will absolutely perform as advertised.

But for all-purpose survival, I perceive the KaBar USMC knife as a solid, capable knife... and proven, over many decades, in some of the toughest conditions imagineable.

---

I agree with what good friend WCB writes above. But if one is talking about a knife specifically, and not something else, I still think the KaBar is a good selection.
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2018, 12:41 PM
Taxed2death Taxed2death is offline
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As CountryBoy said, knife fighting is almost always going to hurt. That said, I do FIRMLY believe that some training is valuable in reducing the degree to which you might get hurt. I have a close friend that is a Vietnam vet as well as a former (undefeated) unlimited martial arts fighter. He was with SOG when in Vietnam and somehow wormed his way into training with some of the ROK Special Forces in knife fighting (those guys were killing machines!). He, in turn, gave me some training as well, and although I am not anywhere NEAR his level, I can hold my own pretty well against a single assailant. What I did learn from him is that everything I learned before was wrong! But once explained, it was easy to see the logic in what he taught me, and now it is second nature. That said, I still prefer to have a gun when in a knife fight.

So far as the knife itself? I do happen to have a dedicated fighting knife on my kit, an OLD SOG Gov't Agent, but this is just my preference. The advice from CountryBoy and Chrysanthemum is excellent and probably a better answer than mine for most. I use what I use because I trained with it, but it is also only associated with a kit that I would carry in a situation where I felt that combat was likely. Otherwise, my advice would be more along the lines of a SwampRat Chopweiller or Ratweiller, a good KaBar, or even a good hatchet if the conditions warrant. Environment should play a role in your decision, so choose to fit whatever is most appropriate for what you anticipate while still retaining versatility to adapt to the unanticipated. And A blade, ANY blade, is better than no blade.

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  #12  
Old 03-27-2018, 01:27 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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I am pretty much with country on the hawk idea.

Easy to use, deadly, and utilitarian to boot. However it has to be a real hawk, meaning with a full length haft. I see these so called tactical hawks for sale with 14" handles. What are you going to do with that, chop vegetables maybe?

With that said, I have heard it said from creditable sources that most people are not really strong enough to be able to use anything more than about an eight inch blade efficiently for cutting. So this certainly gives weight to Chrys's recommendation of a K-Bar. I do not think that anyone would not agree that you could certainly do a lot worse.

As for me, I have options also. First of all I have an old Swedish bayonet that I bought about a hundred years ago for ten bucks at a gun show complete with frog. It is not particularly sharp. However back in the day when I used to hunt alligators down in Bayou La Fourche LA. I actually learned how to throw it. I can land it pretty soundly into a tree out at about fifteen feet. The hollow handle helped considerably. I could see this being just the right thing to do in certain sets of circumstances. The drawback then being that you no longer have a knife in your hand.

Or I might consider my Raymond Thorpe Bowie. It's thirteen inch blade certainly gives you some reach. The drawback being that it weighs more than the hawk that I often carry in the woods now days.

But more likely if I was just going to carry one knife to do it all, fighting included it might very well be my Randal 9" Sportsman's Bowie.
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  #13  
Old 03-27-2018, 02:40 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is online now
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
Easy to use, deadly, and utilitarian to boot. However it has to be a real hawk, meaning with a full length haft. I see these so called tactical hawks for sale with 14" handles. What are you going to do with that, chop vegetables maybe?
What is a "full length haft"...? My RMJ Forge Shrike has a 13" tang, and its more than adequate, and doesn't impede mobility. I think balance, weight, and design are far more important than handle length, though the latter is a factor that impacts the former...

Ive had mine for many years. I've opened ammo crates, punctured tires, broken locks, dug a firing port through mud clay brick, field dressed, skinned, and butcherd a deer... and fought with it. Its almost a natural extention of my arm. The balance and leverage provided by the handle length is perfectly suited to the size and mass of the head.
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  #14  
Old 03-27-2018, 03:29 PM
Taxed2death Taxed2death is offline
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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
What is a "full length haft"...? My RMJ Forge Shrike has a 13" tang, and its more than adequate, and doesn't impede mobility. I think balance, weight, and design are far more important than handle length, though the latter is a factor that impacts the former...

Ive had mine for many years. I've opened ammo crates, punctured tires, broken locks, dug a firing port through mud clay brick, field dressed, skinned, and butcherd a deer... and fought with it. Its almost a natural extention of my arm. The balance and leverage provided by the handle length is perfectly suited to the size and mass of the head.
A lot to be said for the striking power of an axe, but you do sacrifice agility. It's just physics. Weight in motion and all that. Balance is important too, but you already pointed that out. And no question that an axe is a better chopping tool. But for close in fighting where I have to use a blade, then I want a quick, balanced and RAZOR sharp knife. The SOG that I have dedicated for the purpose is lightning quick, has excellent steel in it so I can achieve and maintain a wicked edge on it, and it has excellent slashing and stabbing characteristics. Also, the handle is of a material that won't get slick if it is wet or bloody...another important consideration. And some of it boils down to your preferred fighting style as well. My training relies on quick slashes followed by rapid thrusts to the neck and head area if possible. Most people use the knife in their strong hand, but that places your vitals closer to the attacker. My training has me with the knife in my weak hand, edge away from the body (although I also sharpen the swage on the trailing point). The reason for this is, I can defend both my upper and lower zones with rapid slashes and the attacker has to get past the knife to get within striking distance of my torso. My balance is on my strong foot (rear) like in a boxing stance. To get close enough to me to hit my torso, the attacker is exposed in the head/neck region, and to pass through my defensive zone, his arms are exposed to my blade where I can get at the muscles and tendons that control his grip. My strong hand is held in reserve for punching or grasping. Easier demonstrated than described, but highly effective when practiced.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:35 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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A full length haft?

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Originally Posted by wccountryboy View Post
What is a "full length haft"...? My RMJ Forge Shrike has a 13" tang, and its more than adequate, and doesn't impede mobility. I think balance, weight, and design are far more important than handle length, though the latter is a factor that impacts the former...

Ive had mine for many years. I've opened ammo crates, punctured tires, broken locks, dug a firing port through mud clay brick, field dressed, skinned, and butcherd a deer... and fought with it. Its almost a natural extention of my arm. The balance and leverage provided by the handle length is perfectly suited to the size and mass of the head.
"A handle; that part of an instrument or vessel taken into the hand, to hold or use it; usually, the hilt of a knife, sword, or dagger." (see heave) Webster's new international dictionary, second edition unabridged.

So I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that we are both referring to the handle of said Hawk. You using tang, myself haft. My preference is for a full twenty inches or more long haft, 24" is about optimum for me for my arms length. This thread being after all about fighting. Opening ammo crates, puncturing tires if one is so inclined can of course be accomplished with about anything sharp that additionally gives a bit of leverage. For fighting I want to be able to get the head of my hawk moving as fast as possible for a strike on an opponent. Far greater head velocity can be achieved with a longer haft than a shorter one. A hawk with a 13" tang really comes across to me as more like a long handled Ullu style knife than a fighting hawk. Sure they have utility for this and that. But I will stick with my hawk with the 24 inch haft for fighting. If more mundane tasks are required of it, you can always choke up on the haft of it. Additionally a tool with a longer length gives you two ends to fight with. There is a reason why you see a lot of old Hawks with a spike on the opposite end of the haft from the cleaving blade. Granted that the Shrikes look pretty impressive and they should for that price. But that non conductive over molded rubber handle does not look all that lethal to me. Years ago I used to practice Arnis De mano. And we used to practice with Rattan sticks. A pretty basic but useful move was that if and when an opponent could grab hold of the end of the stick that you were hitting them with. Then you could always gouge them in the face/eye with the other end if you played your cards right.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:25 PM
kurusu kurusu is offline
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Originally Posted by Kainjones View Post
Hello everyone. I have a random question for y’all. Say there’s a break down of society as we know it. Say it goes long term. You’ll be using blades frequently for a lot of the survival related tasks we practice now. Would you have a “dedicated” combat knife that you didn’t use for other tasks? Obviously, any blade can be pressed into any role and a lot of “tactical” knives have features that make it less then idea for bush related tasks. That’s besides the point. Would your daily carry fixed blade be a utility/combat knife? Would you have a different one you carried to leave the combat one as sharp as possible? I know most modern soldiers use their knives mostly for utility, anyway. Am I over thinking it? Any input would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
S Has H T F already. Maybe not the scenario everybody thougt of.
Brace yourselves. A storm is coming.
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  #17  
Old 03-27-2018, 05:40 PM
STORM2 STORM2 is offline
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Assuming a daily use smaller fixed/folding knife and staying out of gun fights with knives, I’ve always kept a KaBar in the truck.....but this is Texas and KaBars are no longer considered big. Remember, sometime smaller is better; but dull is seldom an advantage.
You can’t have too many knives or flashlights close. That’s what trucks are for.
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  #18  
Old 03-28-2018, 12:59 PM
sambob sambob is offline
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Well my daddy always told me " Always be the one that brings a gun to a knife fight".
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:17 PM
US1911 US1911 is offline
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Although void of a compass, built in GPS or map/fishing line storage within the handle, I find the Ontario M9 a perfect companion for such a scenario. Itís versatile enough as is, rugged and wonít break the bank. Plus, I donít need to hunt down itís location, I always know where itís at.

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Old 03-28-2018, 03:30 PM
RogueTS1 RogueTS1 is offline
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For strictly combat something along the lines of my Hisshou. It is very capable when used by someone with sabre fencing skills. Light, strong, relatively long and razor sharp.
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  #21  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:50 AM
CDMCKY CDMCKY is offline
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Although void of a compass, built in GPS or map/fishing line storage within the handle, I find the Ontario M9 a perfect companion for such a scenario. Itís versatile enough as is, rugged and wonít break the bank. Plus, I donít need to hunt down itís location, I always know where itís at.

The M-9 is my choice, too

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Old 08-30-2019, 12:04 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Although void of a compass, built in GPS or map/fishing line storage within the handle, I find the Ontario M9 a perfect companion for such a scenario. Itís versatile enough as is, rugged and wonít break the bank. Plus, I donít need to hunt down itís location, I always know where itís at.

That's just it, in an actual knife fight, the bayonet is the only viable option if you want to walk out the winner.

Martial arts training may give most people the idea that in a knife fight, all they would need to do is grab an ink pen and rolled up magazine and come out the winner like in a Jason Bourne film...
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:23 PM
557 557 is offline
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Good stuff guys. I’m no knife fighter so I’m glad I can run pretty fast. Still interesting hearing from people educated on the subject.

That said as far as going one tool or two (or more) in a SHTF scenario I guess it depends on if you are on the run or just defending premises. If on the run I’m firmly in the one knife camp. And it’s design would favor utility use.

If you are security for a fixed location, not carrying everything you own on your back, and have the skills to take out night intruders with a blade then a dedicated fighting knife makes sense to me.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:48 PM
earlwb earlwb is offline
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I bought my Bowie Survival knife more than 30 years ago. I use it for all sorts of utilitarian purposes. But it is razor sharp and one could shave with it if they wanted to. Heck I have accidentally cut myself with the razor sharp saw teeth on it too. It would work as a last ditch self defense kind of knife as well. But I didn't really plan for using it for knife fighting. I keep some matches and stuff in the handle, and it has a compass in the handle head too.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:09 PM
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Good all-rounder - hmm, probably Cold Steel SRK.

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