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  #1  
Old 03-22-2019, 01:50 PM
ShootenHoot ShootenHoot is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Twin Cities
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So, what's this I see?

New member but not new to shooting, reloading, amateur smithing, yatta yatta. I got a good deal on a current production, unfired, showcase demo GI variant. I've worked on enough guns to have seen a wide spectrum of manufacturing quality and the workmanship on this unit is darn good for the price point. Judging from the select polishing spots, it appears that it had some degree of hand fitting at the factory. Did some compulsory changes like Wilson Spring Set, Full Length guide rod, hard rubber grips and a wide spur hammer because I like 'em that way. Took it to the club and ran a couple of mags of Win white box through it flawlessly. Was reminded why I favor long guns in terms of accuracy. That can be remedied with more range time once the weather gets more suitable for my 64 year old bones.

Here's my question. I'm not fond of the minimalist GI sights and that will hopefully change soon enough. In examining the rear sight mount under the stereo B&L (old eyes) I noticed what looked like some kind of adhesive at the edges of the dovetail. Assuming some kind of loctite, I scratched it with a fine dental pick and saw shiny metal in the compound not unlike what you see when you scratch cured JB Weld or equivalent. Has anyone else found their rear sight bedded into the dovetail with what appears to be metal entrained epoxy like JB Weld? Hoping to be wrong because getting that rear sight out will be a real PITA if that's the case. JB Weld loves bonding, with authority, to parkerizing.

ShootenHoot
(Just plain Hoot everywhere else but it was already taken)
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  #2  
Old 03-24-2019, 10:41 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootenHoot View Post
Has anyone else found their rear sight bedded into the dovetail with what appears to be metal entrained epoxy like JB Weld?
Haven't see that in the three or four I've knocked out

solid vise (don't crush near the slide rails)
steel punch and big enough hammer pops the most stubborn sights for me

pencil torch heat first if trying to save the sights from steel punch trashing


..L.T.A.
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  #3  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:40 AM
robmkivseries70 robmkivseries70 is offline
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I ran an RIA frame with a Para top end for better sights and even carried it for a while. It never missed a beat. I recommend a new slide assembly, the cost will be about the same as new sights and with some luck it will be a drop in/ on part. I did have to run the para slide across the frame, with out all the parts for about 50 repetitions to free it up. Like I said, it ran prefectly. HTH
Best,
Rob
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  #4  
Old 03-24-2019, 09:34 PM
ShootenHoot ShootenHoot is offline
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Location: Twin Cities
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Thanks guys. I figure when the time comes to pick a sight set, If that is indeed some serious bonding agent down in there, I'll no doubt have to heat it up before drifting it out, I have a nice 8" vice for distributing the force and 3 torches of different flame size to choose from. I was just caught off guard by the use of that serious an adhesive versus some Loctite. Must've been looser than the fellow who assembled it was comfortable with.

Did I read right somewhere here that recent production GI models have a Novak cut dovetail like the Tactical variant has? Tried laying the caliper to the slot as best I could with the sight still in it and it's somewhere between .320 and .330. Was hard to get in the little bit of remaining slot outside where the sight ends. Don't want to order the wrong sight. There seems to be a lot of posts about the dimension of the Tactical variant's slot and by that, I mean an actual measurement, as opposed to the GI model. I'm kind of preferential to one of those outline style rear sights like the LPA SPR45CT18.

Hoot
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2019, 05:00 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootenHoot View Post
laying the caliper to the slot as best I could with the sight still in it and it's somewhere between .320 and .330

Hoot

that's GI cut
Novak is .495

BTW, I like those LPA sights too and put them on one of mine


..L.T.A.
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2019, 04:50 PM
Suburban Suburban is offline
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I have a 9mm GI model. Not knowing that anyone glued rear sights in place (what the heck is that about?), I spent 20 minutes banging on the sight with an aluminum punch and 10 ounce ball peen hammer before that bugger moved.

I also had to mill it shorter and cut the notch deeper, but I guess that's a different story.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2019, 09:31 PM
ShootenHoot ShootenHoot is offline
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My sights should be here tomorrow. Once they arrive I'll find out if my initial assessment is correct or just the light through the stereo viewer playing tricks on my eyes. I'm prepared for a fight but hope not to have it come to that. The slide will be well supported before I have at it. Will post a follow up later tomorrow. Was going to the range to bang some more and test my 3.7lb trigger job but it won't get out of the 30's and I don't shoot unless its comfortable out. The exception there would be when hunting but there's food involved!

Shootenhoot
The member here who owns Hoot (my handle everywhere else) hasn't been active in 16 years.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2019, 07:00 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootenHoot View Post
I'm prepared for a fight but hope not to have it come to that. :
solid vise, BFH and steel punch .
it'll go
Brass punches are for sissies.....
(seriously you're not saving the stock sights, so go steel punch)

you'll have to file fit the dovertail base of new sights.
To tap those in, nylon punches are wonderful .
Available from Brownell's and a couple ebay vendors as well
They take a surprising amount of pounding and don't mushroom as much as brass punches

if you don't want to spend money on a sight file, get a set of needle files from Harbor Freight .
Grind a safe edge on one of the three side files


..L.T.A.
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2019, 09:36 PM
ShootenHoot ShootenHoot is offline
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Sorry for not getting back as soon as I said I would. It went pretty well all told.

Using a tiny diamond bit in a dental drill, I hollowed out a portion of the inside of the tenon and it pulled out without much resistance. No sign of adhesive in the slot. Using a long shank, hardened 1/8 inch punch, I shaped the tip like the profile of the Brownells staking tool and slowly formed the new tenon so that its in there tight. I cheated though. As a form of insurance, I wet the inside of the slot and tenon with some LocTite 680.

The dovetailed rear sight was not so easy. My concern about what adhesive they put in it was allayed when it drove out using a steel punch. Judging from the look of the adhesive residue with it out, it appears to have been LocTite 243 (Red). Cleaned out the residue and had a good look at the new site profile. Way Different than what the slot was cut to. The new sight was much taller and a had a slightly more obtuse angle. Patience, 220 Wet or Dry and oil slowly reduced it to where is would sit down right on top of the rounded receiver. Triangle file worked the angle until it would slide in with slight resistance. Looking at it from the side backlit, most of the surface area made contact. It does have 2 set screws but I wet it in with LocTite 680 again after sealing the exposed elevation screw hole with a micro dot of bee's wax first. Didn't want the 680 migrating up into the threads in case I need that much adjustability when it comes time to sight it in. Slide is sealed in a vacuum jar right now to cure the 680 overnight. Will post an image tomorrow evening, assuming I have image posting privileges.

It was a good weekend for inside projects as neither day got out of the 30's. Windchill Saturday was in the lower 20's. Late this week it should climb back up into the 50's with reasonable wind. Will get it sighted in and chrony the Winchester 230gr factory FMJ to serve as a baseline for reloading. not interested in +P loads. This caliber is plenty capable at 850fps and I've got a lot of skills work to do.

Shootenhoot
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2019, 08:06 PM
OlHippy OlHippy is offline
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RIA dovetails are proprietary. That really sucks for anyone thinking that they can change out the sights. But hey, for a couple hundred RIA will do the work for ya. That is my only (albeit a big one) beef with RIA.
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  #11  
Old 04-01-2019, 09:43 PM
ShootenHoot ShootenHoot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlHippy View Post
RIA dovetails are proprietary. That really sucks for anyone thinking that they can change out the sights. But hey, for a couple hundred RIA will do the work for ya. That is my only (albeit a big one) beef with RIA.
I love learning something new and embracing a challenge, so it wasn't exactly a miserable experience. Short of a catastrophic accident that breaks the rear sight, I don't plan on seeing the inside of that dovetail again. I do love the sight picture afforded by the LPA outline sight set.



Much easier to pick up with my less than spectacular eyes.

Shootenhoot

Edit: It appears I can post images, so I still intend to put up a "finished" picture. Waiting for a Clark leaf spring to arrive before I put it back together. I like their idea of split fingers for the disconnector to keep constant pressure on the trigger bow. Makes sense in theory (see sig). We'll see...
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Last edited by ShootenHoot; 04-02-2019 at 05:44 AM. Reason: Added remark
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:26 PM
Razorback22 Razorback22 is offline
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Even if it is JB welded or Loc-tited, get it hot with a heat gun first and you'll break the molecular bond of the epoxy - guaranteed. You'll know because when you give it a tap with a big hammer the sight will fly away!
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