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  #1  
Old 11-17-2012, 08:48 PM
IAMike IAMike is offline
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New PT 1911 owner, sights and slidestop question

Hi all, I just got my first 1911, I found a factory reconditioned PT1911 9mm for $400 and jumped at it. I've always been a big fan of 1911 and this one seems to have a lot going for it, I'm pretty happy that it's 9mm, which means I can shoot more for less $$.

I have a couple of questions.

1) It doesn't seem to be possible to adjust the elevation of the rear Novak sights, is that right? I got the gun on Monday, finally got out to shoot it Wednesday and today. On Wednesday, I was just shooting human-form metal targets, and didn't miss from about 7-10 yards. Today I was shooting at a target from the same distance and couldn't figure out why I wasn't even hitting the plywood backing, let alone the high-vis target. I kept adjusting my aim and figured out that it shoots about 6" low at 7 yards. I had to aim so high that I couldn't even see the target. I took a look and didn't see a way to adjust the elevation of the sights. Am I missing something, or what are my options?

2) Most of the time, the slide doesn't lock open on an empty magazine. I thought that maybe Wednesday I was using too light a load to blow the slide far enough back (some cheapo plinking ammo I got at the dealer), so today I tried some American Eagle ammo. It locked open the first couple of times, but after that it didn't (shot about 75 rounds through today). When I got home, I took a close look, racked the slide a bunch of times, and I noticed that if I manually slid it back, it would lock open, but most of the time, when I hit the magazine release, the slide would also release. I also found that if I locked it open and shook the gun, it would slide closed. I kept looking and saw that the slidestop wasn't quite engaging fully, it was barely catching. I field stripped the gun, cleaned the hell out of it, oiled everything up and wiped it down real well, making sure to lube the slidestop pin. I've worked the slide about 40-50 times since, and it seems to have made a big difference, the catch on the slidestop seems to be fully engaging now.


Needless to say, today was something of a disappointment, trying to show off my new toy vs my buddy's new Glock 23. BUT, I don't see anything here that can't be fixed, right?
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2012, 10:33 PM
hattrick hattrick is offline
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For the shooting low problem you need a lower front sight, available from Dawson Precision in a fiber optic sight or a adjustable rear sight, available from Novak. Not listed on their website but call and ask for it. Or send it back to Taursus. They will fix it.
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:02 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Lots of folks have had some difficulty with low poi on the Taurus 9mm. My theory is it relates to more tilt in the barrel at lock up for the ramped 9mm barrel they used instead of a conventional barrel. Kind of like a commander vs gm in the tilt variation.

A Dawson fixed rear for Taurus is the same height as the old heinie for Taurus. It may adjust your poi enough and let you leave the front alone. There are several options.

I found the failure to lock back on empty last round on the nine as something that resulted from being over sprung. It will probably go away. Taurus set the gun up for 124 grain ammo probably hotter than 115 discount house. Be patient, change ammo or go to a lighter recoil spring.
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:08 AM
woody3 woody3 is offline
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Shooting low left is pretty typical of Taurus PT 1911's. The slide stop problem isn't. On the bright side they have an excellent warranty so give them a call. If it's less than a year old they usually pay for shipping. Any older and you usually pay shipping. I bought one new last year and it shot low left. Also had a bad barrel. Sent it in and got it back about 7 weeks later with a new barrel and sights pretty well on. It's functioned perfectly ever since. I'm very pleased with it - a pleasure to shoot.
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2012, 03:39 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Woody:

I guess it would all depend on what one's definition of typical is.

I bought five Taurus 1911s. Two in 45acp, two in 38 super and one in 9mm. The only one that did not shoot to point of aim was the 9mm and that is the one that is substantially different in how it is set up. The ramped barrel vs conventional barrel. However, they used the same sights as their other 1911s in terms of height.

A 1911 that fails to lock back on the last round normally has a spring problem or a magazine problem. A slide stop problem normally manifests itself as premature lock back.
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:14 PM
IAMike IAMike is offline
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Shooting American Eagle ammo today, I found that one magazine would lock back every time, the second magazine would not. I also shot a box of Fiocchi, both of them locked back with that ammo. I also had 4-5 jams, seemed to have multiple rounds feed at once, or something. At 15 yards, I was consistently 5-6 inches low. Afterwards, I took the magazines apart and cleaned the hell out of them, too. There was a decent amount of fouling on the magazine follower, so I got them all sparkly clean and reassembled.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:09 AM
woody3 woody3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuntaro View Post
Woody:

I guess it would all depend on what one's definition of typical is.

I bought five Taurus 1911s. Two in 45acp, two in 38 super and one in 9mm. The only one that did not shoot to point of aim was the 9mm and that is the one that is substantially different in how it is set up. The ramped barrel vs conventional barrel. However, they used the same sights as their other 1911s in terms of height.

A 1911 that fails to lock back on the last round normally has a spring problem or a magazine problem. A slide stop problem normally manifests itself as premature lock back.
The Taurus forum has had numerous posts citing low left impact. I had read many of them before I bought my Taurus so I wasn't surprised when it happened. As I said, they fixed it, along with replacing the original barrel that had 3 large tool marks running across 2 lands about 1/8" inside the muzzle.
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:26 AM
hattrick hattrick is offline
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Mine and my shooting buddys new 1911's in 45 ACP shot very low out of the box. One was fixed by filing down the front sight. The other required both a lower front sight and a adjustable rear sight.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:25 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody3 View Post
The Taurus forum has had numerous posts citing low left impact. I had read many of them before I bought my Taurus so I wasn't surprised when it happened. As I said, they fixed it, along with replacing the original barrel that had 3 large tool marks running across 2 lands about 1/8" inside the muzzle.
Large Tool Marks on the interior of a barrel. That is not good.

As someone that has walked up and down the line of a couple of hundred classes of 48 students per class I have seen all kinds of poi difficulties till those same students made the mistake of asking one of the instructors to test their gun. Reading about poi difficulties is of no surprise to me after seeing thousands of targets fired by others. I guess my luck with only a 20 percent poi problem rate is contrary to that of the general population of new Taurus buyers. Even the problem I experienced with one out of five was not so great as to inhibit one was from achieving a rating higher than just passing on most targets and scoring diagrams in use today for qualification for LEO or State run CCL programs.

A Taurus is probably not gonna be competitive at Camp Perry as it comes out of the box but that is not the intent or marketing approach of the manufacturer. Persons capable of that kind of performance know that they have to spend substantially more for that kind of equipment performance.

I have read on the Internet that Remington, springfield, kimber and colt are terrible and that they are great. Not real impressive what one reads when it is contrary to one's own direct and personal knowledge is it?
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2012, 06:17 PM
IAMike IAMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuntaro View Post
Large Tool Marks on the interior of a barrel. That is not good.

As someone that has walked up and down the line of a couple of hundred classes of 48 students per class I have seen all kinds of poi difficulties till those same students made the mistake of asking one of the instructors to test their gun. Reading about poi difficulties is of no surprise to me after seeing thousands of targets fired by others. I guess my luck with only a 20 percent poi problem rate is contrary to that of the general population of new Taurus buyers. Even the problem I experienced with one out of five was not so great as to inhibit one was from achieving a rating higher than just passing on most targets and scoring diagrams in use today for qualification for LEO or State run CCL programs.

A Taurus is probably not gonna be competitive at Camp Perry as it comes out of the box but that is not the intent or marketing approach of the manufacturer. Persons capable of that kind of performance know that they have to spend substantially more for that kind of equipment performance.

I have read on the Internet that Remington, springfield, kimber and colt are terrible and that they are great. Not real impressive what one reads when it is contrary to one's own direct and personal knowledge is it?
If it was just me, or I'd never shot before, I wouldn't think as much of it. This weekend, though, my buddy, his dad, and I all shot consistently 6" low with it. None of us had a problem with his Glock. I've shot a couple other 1911s (.45s) and didn't have a problem. I have a S&W 29 in .44 Mag and a Colt snub .38 special that I shoot with no problems.
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  #11  
Old 11-19-2012, 06:58 PM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Yes mike. I believe your 9mm Taurus shoots low and needs a correction to center up. My response for woody concerns reading things on the Internet and regurgitating same as his offer of proof. He fails to recognize how gouges in the interior of his barrel and bad accuracy are one problem and not two problems.

Higher rear sight, lower front sight ( the Taurus is already pretty low at .150-.165 on the Novak rear models ), adjustable rear sight or drill your frame for a scope mount. Some really savvy outfits can even correct poi with a custom barrel bushing.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2012, 02:09 AM
woody3 woody3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuntaro View Post
My response for woody concerns reading things on the Internet and regurgitating same as his offer of proof. He fails to recognize how gouges in the interior of his barrel and bad accuracy are one problem and not two problems.
Many of the shooters who post on these forums have years of experience. If many of them cite the same problem I tend to think it exists. I own four 1911's and started shooting them in the mid 1960's. Three of them hit point of aim. The Taurus shot low left before Taurus repaired it. It now hits point of aim. I think that validates my observation about hitting low left.

Next point - I didn't cite poor accuracy. I cited hitting low left. And the POI problem was not related to the gouges in the barrel.
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:18 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Woody:

It validates your claim as to one gun. Yours, the one you held in your hands. I think you will have a hard time validating claims by others based on the Internet but you are welcome to try.

I guess you can make a distinction regarding bad accuracy being different from bullet fails to strike point of aim but I do not. Do you classify interior barrel gouges as cosmetic?

Low left is the most common error of a right handed shooter. Are you telling us you are left handed? Did you measure the sights height and distance from apex of slide top before and after customer service? If you did not take these measurements then how do you know the new barrel and proper new bushing are not responsible for the poi correction?
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:47 AM
woody3 woody3 is offline
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Chuntaro

When a group of individuals make similar observations I consider that to be validation. If you choose not to that's your option.

When evaluating accuracy I'm more concerned with group size. If a gun groups tightly a sight adjustment will put it right on target thus making it accurate. If it doesn't group tightly it isn't going to be on target regardless of sight adjustment thus it will not be accurate. Again, if you have a different opinion that's your option.

If I'm shooting low left as the result of shooter error why does it only happen with one of my four 1911's?
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:49 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Woody:

I feel even luckier. How I have been able to avoid all these customer service difficulties with various customer service entities of various manufacturers is a mystery. I am not much of the gambler but I do believe in math. 4 to 1 odds is 4 to 1 odds.

It may surprise you that I still maintain a selection of screwdrivers issued to me for the purpose of moving groups to another area of a target and not damaging various screws in the process. In those thousands of targets from classes of forty-eight persons each, I learned that about six of forty-eight grasp the fundamentals in superior fashion. My math says those are 8 to 1 odds a student, though passing, needs additional work before contemplating taking on Rob Leatham, or John Pride or that guy Jerry, the son in law of Clark who I fear I would not spell his last name correctly.

I do not mind telling you that I fired an Olympic 22 pistol at a range in another country belonging to a doctor. I did not interface well with that gun. Persons from that same day came to this country to observe me compete with a gun of mine and were somewhat surprised at the difference.

Some persons interface with some guns better than others, even when the guns are of the same format for the same discipline.

Massad Ayoob assisted a group of females in demonstrating that smith and Wesson revolvers were inherently discrimatory against female persons desiring to become FBI agents. Those girls were just not interfacing well with those wheel guns.

Many posters here on the Internet are new to shooting and new to 1911s. They still need work on the fundamentals and their interface with their gun(s). Many are also from what has come to be known as the generation of instant gratification. They want it now. The gun, the repair and the ability to make things happen down range, like a pro. As someone that fired their first 1911 at or about 1960, making you at or about a minimum of sixty-four today, I might not have to tell you it don't work like that. There is the investment of time, money and hard work to make first. Starting at the bottom and working ones way through the classifications is what we used to refer to as paying ones dues. You don't get to start at the top.

Now when you went down there to Miami to watch Taurus work on your gun, what did they do to your sights since you did not record the data that would have told you without being there? We used to enter stuff like that in something called a dope book. It had nothing to do with narcotics but everything to do with gun sights and other variables affecting poa vs poi at given ranges.

4 to 1 odds vs 8 to 1 odds. Is it the arrow or is it the archer?
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