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  #1  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:52 PM
zogger zogger is offline
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No Charges for KY Homeowner Who Shot Cop in Backyard

This situation is interesting:

No Charges for KY Homeowner Who Shot Cop in Backyard

The policeman was searching for a suspect in the area. The homeowner saw someone suspicious on his property and goes out with his gun to check it out. The policemen sees a man with a gun and opens fire. The home owner returns fire and hits the policeman.

The article says they won't charge the homeowner. But I wonder if the policeman will be charged? He shot at person with no knowledge if the person was his suspect. The article does not say that the policemen identified himself before he sot.
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2018, 12:07 PM
jr24 jr24 is offline
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Glad the officer is in good condition, but if the story is as told, he screwed up big time. Especially since, presumably, his two misses headed towards an occupied home in addition to an innocent homeowner.

Glad this didnt end up more tragic.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:57 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:57 AM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
Spot on.
Bob
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:59 AM
jr24 jr24 is offline
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The homeowner claims his gun was at his side, not pointed anywhere. The officer, according to the story, didnt identify himelself or issue orders, just started firing at someone he thought had a gun.

Seems over exuberant to me, if the situation was as reported.

Sure it was dark but that's not really an excuse for opening up on a bystander with no warning.
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:19 AM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Isn't this what flashlights are for, to get rid of the dark?
If either party had one maybe this wouldn't have happened?
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:46 AM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Cop had a flashlight, article says so.

As for the gun being at the man's side-------------- well, I'm not entirely buying that.

Two dudes, in the dark, both in Condition Red. Why would his gun be down?

Judges tell jurors to use heir experiences and knowledge of human nature. At the VERY LEAST it would be at Low-Ready, given the situation. That's what my call is.
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:26 AM
DG1 DG1 is offline
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Similar garbage happens all the time when a cop is in a backyard he is not supposed to be in and then kills a dog that happens to be in that backyard and wants to protect it.

Really easy to knock on the front door and ask permission to 'check' the backyard first instead of just trespassing from the start.

Why is this officer not being charged with trespassing and assault on the homeowner?
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  #9  
Old 10-21-2018, 11:37 AM
Minorcan Minorcan is offline
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Any body shoots at me on my property is going to get return fire. Very irresponsible response from the policeman, he could have easily killed a child, wife or innocent home owner. This guy needs to be taken off street duty and get some training.
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  #10  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:36 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Maybe not. Depends on the situation. I've watched plenty of real video of police chases.

This is a common scenario: Perp crashes stolen car then runs, hopping fences from one yard to the next. Cops give chase, hopping fences too.

If protocol was for the police to knock on every door beforehand no crook would ever be caught.

Hopping any fence would give him a several minute lead.

Kill anyone, rob anyone, steal anything & you're one fence from freedom? Absurd.

Hot pursuit is HOT. You keep your quarry in sight. No time for community relations.
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  #11  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:47 PM
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RickB RickB is offline
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We probably all have an urge to investigate things that go bump in the night, but calling the cops is a better plan.
Maybe flood lights on the back of the house?
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2018, 05:46 AM
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combat auto combat auto is offline
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Cop should never shoot blindly at anyone, or almost never, and certainly not in a residential backyard without identifying the threat - seems this happens now more than ever (but maybe it has always been this way, just reported more these day, I don't know). Yea, I know, of course we want to reduce risk for cops, I'm all for that, but not at the expense of increasing it for law abiding civilian's...While the homeowner had every right to do what he did, not so much for the cop. Shooting at the wrong person means the Cop F-up plain and simple, the rest is just excuse making. He should be at least suspended for his negligent actions.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2018, 12:51 PM
mike240 mike240 is offline
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Entering fenced residential yard without warrant or consent. Recipe for disaster. Also how cops get into situations either attacked or biting people's dogs.

There are a few exigent circumstances that are legal to enter without warrant but those present hazards too.

I conducted yard to yard searches for many people over the years, unless in active "hot" pursuit, we contained and made contact with the homeowner before entry.
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:01 PM
mike240 mike240 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Maybe not. Depends on the situation. I've watched plenty of real video of police chases.

This is a common scenario: Perp crashes stolen car then runs, hopping fences from one yard to the next. Cops give chase, hopping fences too.

If protocol was for the police to knock on every door beforehand no crook would ever be caught.

Hopping any fence would give him a several minute lead.

Kill anyone, rob anyone, steal anything & you're one fence from freedom? Absurd.

Hot pursuit is HOT. You keep your quarry in sight. No time for community relations.
Pretty situational. We had several get shot, shot at or otherwise ambushed jumping yard to yard. Once the suspect is out of sight (walls, blind corners etc) you need to slow down and tactical clear each corner or depression.

Containment and then search works best though I know there are a lot of small outfits without enough quick responded units for good perimeters and tactics will change based on resources.

I hunted people with dogs for many years and knocked on a lot of door to verify who was in back yards etc before entry and releasing my dog to clear it.

If this homeowner were charged the government knows he would turn around and sue under a 1983 action and win.

Good dogs will alert to the presence of someone in the yard prior to entry.
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2018, 12:21 PM
Jayhawkhuntclub Jayhawkhuntclub is offline
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Aside from eating donuts, police are most well known for being trigger happy and poor shots. This incident displays both. I don't have issues with the police and I realize they have a tough job (some more than others).

When I took active shooter training, the police told us once they enter the building, they will shoot anyone they see holding a gun (or a coffee mug or a stapler...etc.). That seemed crazy to me that they don't feel the need to identify a target before firing. So the bottom line is: if you carry, and an active shoot situation happens, you need to worry about the bad guy and the cops. That's something not everyone thinks about.
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2018, 11:28 AM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
Sort of a 'perfect storm.'
No one probbaly did anything actually wrong.
At least no one was killed.
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2019, 11:30 AM
GySgt 7291 GySgt 7291 is offline
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https://www.owensborotimes.com/news/...g-opd-officer/

Man indicted for first-degree assault after shooting OPD officer

Follow up on the story, not many details except there's a mention of a 6 ft privacy fence being between the officer and homeowner. Home owner is accused of shooting through the fence hitting the officer but it's unknown where the officers bullets went. I'm curious how the details develop and what happens.

Found a more recent article, a few more details. The associated video is pretty informative. Ky State Police detective investigating this says the officer climbed the fence to get into the backyard and found neither one of the men at fault. Homeowner still under indictment though.

https://www.wave3.com/2019/01/03/ksp...ere-justified/
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Last edited by GySgt 7291; 02-02-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-02-2019, 12:04 PM
FightinTXAggie FightinTXAggie is offline
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Hot pursuit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Maybe not. Depends on the situation. I've watched plenty of real video of police chases.

This is a common scenario: Perp crashes stolen car then runs, hopping fences from one yard to the next. Cops give chase, hopping fences too.

If protocol was for the police to knock on every door beforehand no crook would ever be caught.

Hopping any fence would give him a several minute lead.

Kill anyone, rob anyone, steal anything & you're one fence from freedom? Absurd.

Hot pursuit is HOT. You keep your quarry in sight. No time for community relations.
I can agree to an extent...

If the officer was in hot pursuit, and kept his quarry in sight, he wouldn't have shot at an innocent bystander/homeowner who had a legitimate reason and right to be where he was. Officer lost sight of perp, and MISTAKENLY ASSUMED the homeowner was his subject. Better that he paid the price, than the innocent homeowner...

I can't fault him for being outrun, and losing sight of his quarry, but that's where his tactics broke down. It is on him. Nobody made him shoot before properly identifying his target, or himself, or modifying his search tactics after losing sight of the perp.

Is it a tough/dangerous job? Yep, as are so many other jobs. That doesn't mean you can ignore what should be basic, sound principles, and cut corners, or be excused for mistakes. Nobody is perfect, but that doesn't absolve us of our responsibilities when mistakes are made.
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2019, 12:27 PM
yeti yeti is offline
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Very tough break for the officer and for the homeowner. I agree that pursuit is pursuit, knocking on doors to cross a yard during a chase is not feasible. Bad luck all around, but the officer should have identified the threat before engaging AND clearly identified himself prior to firing on a bystander/homeowner. Maybe he did identify himself & maybe he didn't, but odds are high that the homeowner did NOT believe he was returning fire on a police officer. Quite the mess.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:52 PM
GySgt 7291 GySgt 7291 is offline
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I'm from a family of LEOs and very pro cop, the crucial error here to me is the officer didn't identify his target before firing and according to the homeowner didn't identify himself. I'm sorry the officer was injured but the homeowner was not at fault here and it appears local politics is driving the indictment. Also it says the state police detective report and findings was not admissible in court, that doesn't make much sense to me.
Seems like a situation most anyone could be drawn into whether you're armed with a gun, baseball bat etc.
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  #21  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:03 PM
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Concur ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
... this is a consequence of the human condition under chance and circumstance.
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  #22  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:27 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Funny, the only time something like this ever happened to me.

Was back when I was living in New Orleans. When the Swat team raided the stash house down the block. The first thing I knew was that I had about a half a dozen swat guys at my front gate. Daylight, and it still shook me a little bit. But they stood there and very politely asked me if they could come in and look around. They did not look all that anxious to try and hop the six foot wrought iron fence topped with pikes in full gear. So I retrieved my keys and let them in. Sure enough there was one guy trying to make himself as small as possible in the old Studebaker that I was restoring. Must have come in over the back wall.
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  #23  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:46 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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In the olden days

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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
...
seems this happens now more than ever (but maybe it has always been this way, just reported more these day, I don't know).
...
... this would only have made it into a local newspaper ... and most days, with both parties likely to survive, it would be below the fold. So we’d each only know about these events in our own town. “local” and “fold” have changed a lot in the last 25yrs. Now -fairly- likely to hear of them anywhere in the USA. A huge perceptual magnifying factor; multiple orders of magnitude. With services aware of each users’ personal interests and selecting news accordingly, we can each be our own editor to a great extent.

As ‘magazineman’ wrote, in hot pursuit crossing through yards, and more, is an accepted police practice in -lots- of places*. Policeman [presumably] doing nothing wrongful AND in reasonable fear for his life, has the same right to self-defense and, realistically, already keyed-up. Homeowner, likewise, doing nothing wrong, likewise in -very- reasonable fear for his life. Could each have done things to reduce the likelihood of a shootout? yes. That neither took seriously the thought of having an armed ally suddenly show up, seems apparent. Had they taken such a thought seriously: either/both might have established some comms, e.g.:

Homeowner: Who’s out in my yard?!?
Policeman: OPD, sir!!! -stay- in the house and call 911.

Not having been there, however, don’t know that to have been reasonable.

For my own part, if I blame anybody (other than the suspect chased), it’s Adam; while knowing I’d have done at least as badly.

*- We could disagree that police should be allowed hot pursuit through private property. Disallowing hot pursuit comes at a cost ... as does allowing it. For my part, I’d start by eliminating no-knock warrants, at -least- require a grand jury endorsement, and see if that didn’t solve 80% of problematic homeowner-police armed confrontations.
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Last edited by tgt_usa; 02-02-2019 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Okay final 2.0
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:54 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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Now I’m wishing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GySgt 7291 View Post
https://www.owensborotimes.com/news/...g-opd-officer/

Man indicted for first-degree assault after shooting OPD officer

Follow up on the story, not many details except there's a mention of a 6 ft privacy fence being between the officer and homeowner. Home owner is accused of shooting through the fence hitting the officer but it's unknown where the officers bullets went. I'm curious how the details develop and what happens.

Found a more recent article, a few more details. The associated video is pretty informative. Ky State Police detective investigating this says the officer climbed the fence to get into the backyard and found neither one of the men at fault. Homeowner still under indictment though.

https://www.wave3.com/2019/01/03/ksp...ere-justified/
... along with you all, that I had acted on Thos. Jefferson’s maxim on news:

Advertisements ... contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper." ~Thomas Jefferson to Nathaniel Macon, 1819. ME 15:179

Final edit: Wasn’t there; don’t know anything.
sigh
\ -:
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  #25  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:24 PM
Riverboys Riverboys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
We probably all have an urge to investigate things that go bump in the night, but calling the cops is a better plan.
Maybe flood lights on the back of the house?
Lighting up the backyard - perhaps with motion detector lights - would goo a long way to preventing something like this. or give home owner a good look at a bad guy.
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