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  #1  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:52 PM
zogger zogger is offline
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No Charges for KY Homeowner Who Shot Cop in Backyard

This situation is interesting:

No Charges for KY Homeowner Who Shot Cop in Backyard

The policeman was searching for a suspect in the area. The homeowner saw someone suspicious on his property and goes out with his gun to check it out. The policemen sees a man with a gun and opens fire. The home owner returns fire and hits the policeman.

The article says they won't charge the homeowner. But I wonder if the policeman will be charged? He shot at person with no knowledge if the person was his suspect. The article does not say that the policemen identified himself before he sot.
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2018, 12:07 PM
jr24 jr24 is offline
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Glad the officer is in good condition, but if the story is as told, he screwed up big time. Especially since, presumably, his two misses headed towards an occupied home in addition to an innocent homeowner.

Glad this didnt end up more tragic.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:57 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:57 AM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
Spot on.
Bob
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2018, 11:28 AM
brickeyee brickeyee is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
Sort of a 'perfect storm.'
No one probbaly did anything actually wrong.
At least no one was killed.
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2019, 11:30 AM
GySgt 7291 GySgt 7291 is online now
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https://www.owensborotimes.com/news/...g-opd-officer/

Man indicted for first-degree assault after shooting OPD officer

Follow up on the story, not many details except there's a mention of a 6 ft privacy fence being between the officer and homeowner. Home owner is accused of shooting through the fence hitting the officer but it's unknown where the officers bullets went. I'm curious how the details develop and what happens.

Found a more recent article, a few more details. The associated video is pretty informative. Ky State Police detective investigating this says the officer climbed the fence to get into the backyard and found neither one of the men at fault. Homeowner still under indictment though.

https://www.wave3.com/2019/01/03/ksp...ere-justified/
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Last edited by GySgt 7291; 02-02-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:54 PM
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Now Iím wishing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GySgt 7291 View Post
https://www.owensborotimes.com/news/...g-opd-officer/

Man indicted for first-degree assault after shooting OPD officer

Follow up on the story, not many details except there's a mention of a 6 ft privacy fence being between the officer and homeowner. Home owner is accused of shooting through the fence hitting the officer but it's unknown where the officers bullets went. I'm curious how the details develop and what happens.

Found a more recent article, a few more details. The associated video is pretty informative. Ky State Police detective investigating this says the officer climbed the fence to get into the backyard and found neither one of the men at fault. Homeowner still under indictment though.

https://www.wave3.com/2019/01/03/ksp...ere-justified/
... along with you all, that I had acted on Thos. Jefferson’s maxim on news:

Advertisements ... contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper." ~Thomas Jefferson to Nathaniel Macon, 1819. ME 15:179

Final edit: Wasn’t there; don’t know anything.
sigh
\ -:
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:03 PM
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Concur ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I don't know if there was much of a screw up.

Apparently it was dark.

Cop was looking for a suspect, probably on high-alert for an ambush. The article doesn't say so, but I'm assuming that the suspect was running from Police. No time to go ringing doorbells. Ya gotta chase as you can.

So homeowner hears noise, arms up, & goes outside. He sees the cop, but doesn't know he's L.E.

Cop turns, sees, armed man, & fires.

I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.
... this is a consequence of the human condition under chance and circumstance.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:27 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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Funny, the only time something like this ever happened to me.

Was back when I was living in New Orleans. When the Swat team raided the stash house down the block. The first thing I knew was that I had about a half a dozen swat guys at my front gate. Daylight, and it still shook me a little bit. But they stood there and very politely asked me if they could come in and look around. They did not look all that anxious to try and hop the six foot wrought iron fence topped with pikes in full gear. So I retrieved my keys and let them in. Sure enough there was one guy trying to make himself as small as possible in the old Studebaker that I was restoring. Must have come in over the back wall.
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2019, 06:35 AM
Plaidad Plaidad is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
Sure enough there was one guy trying to make himself as small as possible in the old Studebaker that I was restoring. Must have come in over the back wall.
Were you charged with harboring a Studebaker?
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:39 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is online now
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A lot of good comments in this thread; I think magazineman has presented a fairly balanced assessment.

Just a bad situation, likely misjudgments by the LEO (I think he erred, but I've had time to think about it); on other hand, yes, it's tough to be chasing some perp through a residential neighborhood. Almost a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, with very little time to think everything through.

Not sure that we know what crime the perp (person being searched for) committed. The more serious the crime, the more I can understand the officer's search tactics. (That's understand, not necessarily agree).

Glad no charges against homeowner; and glad officer survived.
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2019, 07:22 AM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I can see how this could occur without anyone truly being 100% at fault. Except the PERP who initiated this whole crapstorm.



And THAT'S who you charge, with the officer's death.
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:59 AM
jr24 jr24 is offline
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The homeowner claims his gun was at his side, not pointed anywhere. The officer, according to the story, didnt identify himelself or issue orders, just started firing at someone he thought had a gun.

Seems over exuberant to me, if the situation was as reported.

Sure it was dark but that's not really an excuse for opening up on a bystander with no warning.
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:19 AM
7.62Kolectr 7.62Kolectr is offline
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Isn't this what flashlights are for, to get rid of the dark?
If either party had one maybe this wouldn't have happened?
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:46 AM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Cop had a flashlight, article says so.

As for the gun being at the man's side-------------- well, I'm not entirely buying that.

Two dudes, in the dark, both in Condition Red. Why would his gun be down?

Judges tell jurors to use heir experiences and knowledge of human nature. At the VERY LEAST it would be at Low-Ready, given the situation. That's what my call is.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:26 AM
DG1 DG1 is offline
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Similar garbage happens all the time when a cop is in a backyard he is not supposed to be in and then kills a dog that happens to be in that backyard and wants to protect it.

Really easy to knock on the front door and ask permission to 'check' the backyard first instead of just trespassing from the start.

Why is this officer not being charged with trespassing and assault on the homeowner?
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2019, 03:02 PM
0311B50 0311B50 is online now
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Originally Posted by DG1 View Post
Similar garbage happens all the time when a cop is in a backyard he is not supposed to be in and then kills a dog that happens to be in that backyard and wants to protect it.



Really easy to knock on the front door and ask permission to 'check' the backyard first instead of just trespassing from the start.



Why is this officer not being charged with trespassing and assault on the homeowner?


Actually, itís not so easy to knock and ask to check first. The time spent doing that is time your suspect is moving further away while no one is trying to keep up with him.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2018, 11:37 AM
Minorcan Minorcan is offline
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Any body shoots at me on my property is going to get return fire. Very irresponsible response from the policeman, he could have easily killed a child, wife or innocent home owner. This guy needs to be taken off street duty and get some training.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:36 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Maybe not. Depends on the situation. I've watched plenty of real video of police chases.

This is a common scenario: Perp crashes stolen car then runs, hopping fences from one yard to the next. Cops give chase, hopping fences too.

If protocol was for the police to knock on every door beforehand no crook would ever be caught.

Hopping any fence would give him a several minute lead.

Kill anyone, rob anyone, steal anything & you're one fence from freedom? Absurd.

Hot pursuit is HOT. You keep your quarry in sight. No time for community relations.
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Old 10-21-2018, 12:47 PM
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We probably all have an urge to investigate things that go bump in the night, but calling the cops is a better plan.
Maybe flood lights on the back of the house?
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  #21  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:24 PM
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We probably all have an urge to investigate things that go bump in the night, but calling the cops is a better plan.
Maybe flood lights on the back of the house?
Lighting up the backyard - perhaps with motion detector lights - would goo a long way to preventing something like this. or give home owner a good look at a bad guy.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:01 PM
mike240 mike240 is offline
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Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Maybe not. Depends on the situation. I've watched plenty of real video of police chases.

This is a common scenario: Perp crashes stolen car then runs, hopping fences from one yard to the next. Cops give chase, hopping fences too.

If protocol was for the police to knock on every door beforehand no crook would ever be caught.

Hopping any fence would give him a several minute lead.

Kill anyone, rob anyone, steal anything & you're one fence from freedom? Absurd.

Hot pursuit is HOT. You keep your quarry in sight. No time for community relations.
Pretty situational. We had several get shot, shot at or otherwise ambushed jumping yard to yard. Once the suspect is out of sight (walls, blind corners etc) you need to slow down and tactical clear each corner or depression.

Containment and then search works best though I know there are a lot of small outfits without enough quick responded units for good perimeters and tactics will change based on resources.

I hunted people with dogs for many years and knocked on a lot of door to verify who was in back yards etc before entry and releasing my dog to clear it.

If this homeowner were charged the government knows he would turn around and sue under a 1983 action and win.

Good dogs will alert to the presence of someone in the yard prior to entry.
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  #23  
Old 02-02-2019, 12:04 PM
FightinTXAggie FightinTXAggie is offline
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Hot pursuit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
Maybe not. Depends on the situation. I've watched plenty of real video of police chases.

This is a common scenario: Perp crashes stolen car then runs, hopping fences from one yard to the next. Cops give chase, hopping fences too.

If protocol was for the police to knock on every door beforehand no crook would ever be caught.

Hopping any fence would give him a several minute lead.

Kill anyone, rob anyone, steal anything & you're one fence from freedom? Absurd.

Hot pursuit is HOT. You keep your quarry in sight. No time for community relations.
I can agree to an extent...

If the officer was in hot pursuit, and kept his quarry in sight, he wouldn't have shot at an innocent bystander/homeowner who had a legitimate reason and right to be where he was. Officer lost sight of perp, and MISTAKENLY ASSUMED the homeowner was his subject. Better that he paid the price, than the innocent homeowner...

I can't fault him for being outrun, and losing sight of his quarry, but that's where his tactics broke down. It is on him. Nobody made him shoot before properly identifying his target, or himself, or modifying his search tactics after losing sight of the perp.

Is it a tough/dangerous job? Yep, as are so many other jobs. That doesn't mean you can ignore what should be basic, sound principles, and cut corners, or be excused for mistakes. Nobody is perfect, but that doesn't absolve us of our responsibilities when mistakes are made.
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  #24  
Old 02-02-2019, 12:27 PM
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Very tough break for the officer and for the homeowner. I agree that pursuit is pursuit, knocking on doors to cross a yard during a chase is not feasible. Bad luck all around, but the officer should have identified the threat before engaging AND clearly identified himself prior to firing on a bystander/homeowner. Maybe he did identify himself & maybe he didn't, but odds are high that the homeowner did NOT believe he was returning fire on a police officer. Quite the mess.
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  #25  
Old 10-22-2018, 05:46 AM
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Cop should never shoot blindly at anyone, or almost never, and certainly not in a residential backyard without identifying the threat - seems this happens now more than ever (but maybe it has always been this way, just reported more these day, I don't know). Yea, I know, of course we want to reduce risk for cops, I'm all for that, but not at the expense of increasing it for law abiding civilian's...While the homeowner had every right to do what he did, not so much for the cop. Shooting at the wrong person means the Cop F-up plain and simple, the rest is just excuse making. He should be at least suspended for his negligent actions.
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