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  #601  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:08 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Originally Posted by Lppd4 View Post
Was that in addition to the machining of the recoil shield or did I dream that one up?
The factory M recall did not include any work on the recoil shield.
  #602  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:16 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Originally Posted by Pale Face View Post
If Colt doesn't make enough to recoup its investment and show a profit, there might not be enough of them made so you can buy one when you get around to deciding you want one.
And if that's the case it'll only be first-wave buggy Pythons available anyway.

Besides there's always opportunity to find what you're looking for in this hobby if you're patient and diligent.

Next wave debugged Python's worth the (likely) short wait...
  #603  
Old 01-14-2020, 07:17 PM
Pale Face Pale Face is offline
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Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
And if that's the case it'll only be first-wave buggy Pythons available anyway.

Besides there's always opportunity to find what you're looking for in this hobby if you're patient and diligent.

Next wave debugged Python's worth the (likely) short wait...
Yep. And I am seeing this play out in some other, shall we say, less enlightened forums. I saw one comment that it shouldn't cost more than a 686, and whoever posted that is absolutely right -- that is, the quality sinks to that level. But as it is, if I were in the market, I'd still rather spend $1500 on the new Python that $700 for any current 686 or $1300 for the Dan Wesson. (At $950, the Dan Wesson starts getting very, very atrractive.)

Seriously, what I'm hoping comes out of this is
  1. Colt stays in business in general and in the revolver game in particular.
  2. The presence of a high-end revolver in the market leads S&W, Cz-Dan Wesson, and Ruger to follow through with higher-end revolver, too.
  3. We have a general resurgence of the market for a high-quality, practical wheelguns.
  #604  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:23 PM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Originally Posted by Pale Face View Post
Yep. And I am seeing this play out in some other, shall we say, less enlightened forums. I saw one comment that it shouldn't cost more than a 686, and whoever posted that is absolutely right -- that is, the quality sinks to that level. But as it is, if I were in the market, I'd still rather spend $1500 on the new Python that $700 for any current 686 or $1300 for the Dan Wesson. (At $950, the Dan Wesson starts getting very, very atrractive.)

Seriously, what I'm hoping comes out of this is
  1. Colt stays in business in general and in the revolver game in particular.
  2. The presence of a high-end revolver in the market leads S&W, Cz-Dan Wesson, and Ruger to follow through with higher-end revolver, too.
  3. We have a general resurgence of the market for a high-quality, practical wheelguns.
The only thing I'd like to see happen is S&W redesign all revolvers to mimic the profile of the pre-lock revolvers. Even if the locks went away today, the current guns would still look awful, due the raised frame that was made to accommodate the lock. A frame redesign definitely needs to be addressed.

S&W now has two lock free competitors, so maybe they might finally do what we've been asking them to do for years.

Seeing the Ruger Security Six come back would be nice too, but that's highly doubtful.
  #605  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:44 PM
Colt191145 Colt191145 is online now
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Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
The only thing I'd like to see happen is S&W redesign all revolvers to mimic the profile of the pre-lock revolvers. Even if the locks went away today, the current guns would still look awful, due the raised frame that was made to accommodate the lock. A frame redesign definitely needs to be addressed.

S&W now has two lock free competitors, so maybe they might finally do what we've been asking them to do for years.

Seeing the Ruger Security Six come back would be nice too, but that's highly doubtful.
Said all Python fans for the last twenty years! If Ruger thinks there is a dollar to be made they will bring the Security Six and Speed Six back. Look at the gamble they just took with the new Ruger 57.
  #606  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:09 AM
K0025xx K0025xx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Face View Post
Yep. And I am seeing this play out in some other, shall we say, less enlightened forums. I saw one comment that it shouldn't cost more than a 686, and whoever posted that is absolutely right -- that is, the quality sinks to that level. But as it is, if I were in the market, I'd still rather spend $1500 on the new Python that $700 for any current 686 or $1300 for the Dan Wesson. (At $950, the Dan Wesson starts getting very, very atrractive.)

Seriously, what I'm hoping comes out of this is
  1. Colt stays in business in general and in the revolver game in particular.
  2. The presence of a high-end revolver in the market leads S&W, Cz-Dan Wesson, and Ruger to follow through with higher-end revolver, too.
  3. We have a general resurgence of the market for a high-quality, practical wheelguns.
If the quality sinks to that level (of a 686)?
You're kidding, right?
Even if there is a minute quality difference...which personally, I would argue, it certainly doesn't even come close to justifying the difference in price. The problem is, there are people who are willing to pay that price for a Python regardless of the facts. It's a purely emotional market...which is fine and very typical. At least be honest about it.
  #607  
Old 01-15-2020, 03:09 PM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Originally Posted by K0025xx View Post
If the quality sinks to that level (of a 686)?
You're kidding, right?
Even if there is a minute quality difference...which personally, I would argue, it certainly doesn't even come close to justifying the difference in price. The problem is, there are people who are willing to pay that price for a Python regardless of the facts. It's a purely emotional market...which is fine and very typical. At least be honest about it.
Have you gotten hands on one of the new Pythons, opened it up and compared with a current 686? Put them through their paces together? Seen the detailed reports pile up until anecdotes become data?

Nope. Me neither. None of us has and so it's too soon to say one way or the other.

Anything less -- unproved assertions stated as facts -- is just a different example of the aforementioned emotional market.

I'm waiting and watching -- but if Colt's dicey rollout eventually proves to fly true, I'll pay more for a Python simply as a protest vote to S&W to get rid of the lock, tighten up the consistency of its output and gimme a trigger that isn't ridiculous out of the box.
  #608  
Old 01-15-2020, 04:48 PM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Internet before Python was announced: "Colt is stupid for not building Pythons like we asked."

Internet after Python was announced: Colt is stupid for building Pythons. We haven't handled one in person yet, but we know based on a handful of YouTube videos showing flaws in the same place there are videos showing perfectly functional guns that they are all absolute junk.

There are plenty of S&W and Ruger lemons too, but no one bothers to make videos about them, because they wont attract the same level of attention that a Python video will.
  #609  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:08 PM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
I'm waiting and watching -- but if Colt's dicey rollout eventually proves to fly true, I'll pay more for a Python simply as a protest vote to S&W to get rid of the lock, tighten up the consistency of its output and gimme a trigger that isn't ridiculous out of the box.
This!
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  #610  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:46 PM
Pale Face Pale Face is offline
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Originally Posted by K0025xx View Post
If the quality sinks to that level (of a 686)?
You're kidding, right?
Even if there is a minute quality difference...which personally, I would argue, it certainly doesn't even come close to justifying the difference in price. The problem is, there are people who are willing to pay that price for a Python regardless of the facts. It's a purely emotional market...which is fine and very typical. At least be honest about it.
Why would you think I'm kidding about that? The L-frames used to be solidly well-made if unglamorous guns that in terms of functionality, ruggedness, and accuracy would hold their own with anyting. I knew two Python owners who also owned 686s in matching configurations who favored their 686s any time the shooting had to count. I owned two of them myself, manufactured 11 years apart. The difference in build quality was indistinguishable. Now when I see new examples

1) Yokes do not fit frames properly (large, visible gaps)
2) Barrels are not vertically aligned.
3) Forcing cones are not cut straight and/or b/c gap is excessive. The amount of variation I have seen from one example to another is startling. S&W do not seem to know how to get best results from CNC machining.

Ironically, action smoothness has been a little better in the couple of samples of which I was able to work the actions. I attribute that to the greater precision of the MIM lockwork vs the old chrome-plated castings. The salesman at the gun counter agreed with me: The internals are less of an issue than the overall assembly.
  #611  
Old 01-15-2020, 07:04 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
Internet before Python was announced: "Colt is stupid for not building Pythons like we asked."

Internet after Python was announced: Colt is stupid for building Pythons. We haven't handled one in person yet, but we know based on a handful of YouTube videos showing flaws in the same place there are videos showing perfectly functional guns that they are all absolute junk.

There are plenty of S&W and Ruger lemons too, but no one bothers to make videos about them, because they wont attract the same level of attention that a Python video will.
There are scores of Colt haters out there who were just chomping at the bit for there to be a reported problem with the new Pythons, and when the opportunity arose they jumped on it. Now we've got the Internet filled with "Colt just came out with a piece of overpriced garbage, I'm not buying one and I hope they go out of business!!!". These same jerkoffs are also perpetuating the false story that Colt caved in to the anti-gunners and stopped offering AR-15s to civilians. The more rabid among them are saying that Colt has always been anti-gun to begin with... just think about that one for a moment and tell yourself if it makes any sense at all.
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  #612  
Old 01-15-2020, 07:38 PM
BMR BMR is offline
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Well, in my limited sample of one 2020 Python, mine that I purchased last week, it has functioned flawlessly in the 200 rounds I stated I fired earlier in this thread. I hope to be able to fire a couple of hundred rounds more this weekend if I'm not snowed out of accessing our property.

I have not found any cosmetic flaws in mine, either, at least with the naked eye. I suppose if I took a magnifying glass to it I'd be able to find some.

This gun has hands down the best trigger I've ever pulled on a DA revolver, certainly much better than the original Python, which I once owned. For the closest comparison that comes to mind, think of a Beretta 92FS with the D spring installed. Though, with my Lyman electronic gauge this revolver has a pull about 1 lb. lighter.

I don't know if it's worth so much more than a S&W or Ruger revolver, but it doesn't have a lock like the S&W and it has a better trigger pull and a tighter lock up than the Rugers I have. I guess one has to decide for himself whether those differences are worth the price difference.
  #613  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:32 PM
4110mm 4110mm is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
There are scores of Colt haters out there who were just chomping at the bit for there to be a reported problem with the new Pythons, and when the opportunity arose they jumped on it. Now we've got the Internet filled with "Colt just came out with a piece of overpriced garbage, I'm not buying one and I hope they go out of business!!!". These same jerkoffs are also perpetuating the false story that Colt caved in to the anti-gunners and stopped offering AR-15s to civilians. The more rabid among them are saying that Colt has always been anti-gun to begin with... just think about that one for a moment and tell yourself if it makes any sense at all.
DSK,

you got to calm down and ween off the Koolaid. Let us not fight one another, focus on what unites us, not what divides us. We are all gun guys/gals, we love freedom, we love our 2A, we love to follow the gun market and buy/sell/trade/collect.

The data so far suggests the new Python has a few issues on some guns:
-Muzzles that look like something the cat dragged in
-Cylinders turning some of the time, not at other times
-Rear sights shipped w/o ball detent that turn freely
-Plywood grips
-and yes...$1500 retail

Allegedly Colt stopped shipping more guns until some remedies have been found and all the returned guns have all been fixed.

So just calm you nerves, see how this is shaking out...spread the love...
  #614  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:07 PM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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Originally Posted by 4110mm View Post
DSK,

you got to calm down and ween off the Koolaid. Let us not fight one another, focus on what unites us, not what divides us. We are all gun guys/gals, we love freedom, we love our 2A, we love to follow the gun market and buy/sell/trade/collect.

The data so far suggests the new Python has a few issues on some guns:
-Muzzles that look like something the cat dragged in
-Cylinders turning some of the time, not at other times
-Rear sights shipped w/o ball detent that turn freely
-Plywood grips
-and yes...$1500 retail

Allegedly Colt stopped shipping more guns until some remedies have been found and all the returned guns have all been fixed.

So just calm you nerves, see how this is shaking out...spread the love...
I see more S&W than Colt koolaid being served in this these threads. If Colt is making an effort to repair the lemons, what more could you ask for? I don't understand why you hate the grips so much (or the rest of the gun for that matter) They aren't the same rich walnut the old Pythons were, but I wouldn't call them plywood.

Colt made a few duds among many guns that were just fine upon launch. I don't see what the big deal is, as long as Colt corrects the defects when presented with them. S&W had to recall all the no dash 686 revolvers. So far it only looks like only a few Pythons are affected upon launch, rather than all of them, unlike S&W's case. I'm not making this comparison to say S&W is a bad company, I'm making it to show that even some of the best revolvers ever built (like the 686) had a rough start.

The sheer hatred people have for Colt, make me wonder if there's something personal between them and the company. Don't say its because they caved to anti-gunners, because we've disproved that on multiple occasions. While it's under different ownership now, S&W revolvers still wear the badge of dishonor from when they kissed Bill Clinton's rear.

Last edited by FNHipowerluv; 01-15-2020 at 09:10 PM.
  #615  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:53 PM
Jason D Jason D is offline
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Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
Have you gotten hands on one of the new Pythons, opened it up and compared with a current 686? Put them through their paces together? Seen the detailed reports pile up until anecdotes become data?

Nope. Me neither. None of us has and so it's too soon to say one way or the other.

Anything less -- unproved assertions stated as facts -- is just a different example of the aforementioned emotional market.

I'm waiting and watching -- but if Colt's dicey rollout eventually proves to fly true, I'll pay more for a Python simply as a protest vote to S&W to get rid of the lock, tighten up the consistency of its output and gimme a trigger that isn't ridiculous out of the box.

I have not shot my 2020 Python yet, and won't until the spring when the weather warms up. I can say though, that compared to my most used 686. The Colt is superior in every way, but actual shooting.

The 686 has an action smoothed by thousands upon thousands of rounds fired over the last 20 year. It's highly accurate and well built. The new Python has a better fit, better finish, and a better action than 20 years of shooting has produced in the 686. I only hope the Colt can live up to my expectations, because the 686 sure has.

Do I think that the new Python is worth 1500 bucks? I don't know, but I did whip out my wallet fast enough when one showed in stock. I felt better about my purchase when I had it in hand, and have no buyer's remorse.
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  #616  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:11 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Sounds like a fully satisfied customer here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason D View Post
I have not shot my 2020 Python yet, and won't until the spring when the weather warms up. I can say though, that compared to my most used 686. The Colt is superior in every way, but actual shooting.

The 686 has an action smoothed by thousands upon thousands of rounds fired over the last 20 year. It's highly accurate and well built. The new Python has a better fit, better finish, and a better action than 20 years of shooting has produced in the 686. I only hope the Colt can live up to my expectations, because the 686 sure has.

Do I think that the new Python is worth 1500 bucks? I don't know, but I did whip out my wallet fast enough when one showed in stock. I felt better about my purchase when I had it in hand, and have no buyer's remorse.
I am guessing that I will likely be happy with mine as well. No doubt they will have the bugs worked out before I get one this summer.
  #617  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:32 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Originally Posted by FNHipowerluv View Post
I don't understand why you hate the grips so much (or the rest of the gun for that matter) They aren't the same rich walnut the old Pythons were, but I wouldn't call them plywood.
The old Python grips were made from very plain, unfigured walnut. Not the best-looking grips ever offered on a pistol by a long shot. They also were very poorly fit on many examples, with gaps big enough to jam your fingernail into. The newer laminated grips are much better fit (so far) and have unique colors and patterns to them. Some may not like the fact that they're thinner than the originals, but that depends on your hand size. A lot of us found the originals too large.

And by the way, so-called "plywood" grips are the wave of the future as solid hardwood grips become more expensive and difficult to manufacture thanks to laws regulating the harvesting of many rare woods.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
  #618  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:11 PM
FNHipowerluv FNHipowerluv is offline
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I'm happy with the slightly smaller grips, but if someone just had to have the old large ones, they'll fit on this gun too.
  #619  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:36 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Grips are a minor issue.

Anyone with a screwdriver can change them out. And there are any number of after market grip makers to fit every budget and taste.
  #620  
Old 01-16-2020, 05:57 AM
Culpepper Cattle Co. Culpepper Cattle Co. is offline
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Originally Posted by 4110mm View Post
DSK,

you got to calm down and ween off the Koolaid. Let us not fight one another, focus on what unites us, not what divides us. We are all gun guys/gals, we love freedom, we love our 2A, we love to follow the gun market and buy/sell/trade/collect.

The data so far suggests the new Python has a few issues on some guns:
-Muzzles that look like something the cat dragged in
-Cylinders turning some of the time, not at other times
-Rear sights shipped w/o ball detent that turn freely
-Plywood grips
-and yes...$1500 retail

Allegedly Colt stopped shipping more guns until some remedies have been found and all the returned guns have all been fixed.

So just calm you nerves, see how this is shaking out...spread the love...
"Spread the love," he said, while doing the opposite.

You have a legit source on Colt halting shipments, or just happy to start rumors...?
  #621  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:13 AM
Electricmo Electricmo is offline
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Originally Posted by Culpepper Cattle Co. View Post
"Spread the love," he said, while doing the opposite.

You have a legit source on Colt halting shipments, or just happy to start rumors...?
4110mm stated earlier in this thread that he isn't buying any colt Python. Why he is here stirring crap still is beyond me.
  #622  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:29 AM
ken y ken y is offline
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I own the new Python and I like the new grips. They feel good, look good and most importantly facilitate a firm grip on the pistol while shooting..

As has been stated numerous times if you don't like them change them out.
Easiest thing to change on a gun.
  #623  
Old 01-16-2020, 06:48 AM
Plantar5 Plantar5 is online now
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Originally Posted by ken y View Post
I own the new Python and I like the new grips. They feel good, look good and most importantly facilitate a firm grip on the pistol while shooting..

As has been stated numerous times if you don't like them change them out.
Easiest thing to change on a gun.
Congrats. Pics???
  #624  
Old 01-16-2020, 07:02 AM
Prange Prange is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
The old Python grips were made from very plain, unfigured walnut. Not the best-looking grips ever offered on a pistol by a long shot. They also were very poorly fit on many examples, with gaps big enough to jam your fingernail into. The newer laminated grips are much better fit (so far) and have unique colors and patterns to them. Some may not like the fact that they're thinner than the originals, but that depends on your hand size. A lot of us found the originals too large.

And by the way, so-called "plywood" grips are the wave of the future as solid hardwood grips become more expensive and difficult to manufacture thanks to laws regulating the harvesting of many rare woods.
I agree about the grips. Keith Brown will make you a spectacular set of grips from anything you want. His "Roper" style grips are stunning.
  #625  
Old 01-16-2020, 07:27 AM
JayhawkNavy02 JayhawkNavy02 is offline
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http://www.herrettstocks.com

I use custom Herrett grips for to my hand for bullseye. The Jordan Trooper give as close to a 1911 feel as I’ve experienced and made from black walnut. The overall circumference for me was the same as the OEM but they’re much narrower. The “old style” checkering is aggressive. Love the grips.







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