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  #1  
Old 08-08-2018, 06:00 PM
bsteiner27 bsteiner27 is offline
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357 pistol vs rifle data

This might be a dumb question but is it safe to use 357 mag pistol data and use that ammo in a 357 mag rifle? I know I'll have a higher velocity then listed in the book but other than that is there any other problems that I'm not thinking about.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2018, 06:26 PM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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You are fine. I use one load for rifle and pistol. no issues

Then 357 really shines in a longer barrel.
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  #3  
Old 08-08-2018, 06:36 PM
TjB101 TjB101 is offline
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357 pistol vs rifle data

Ditto ... some loading manuals do provide both ...Hodgdon samples below ... some slight differences ... I also noticed I didn’t seem to find 125gr LRN loads listed for rifles .. just too fast for lead I guess.



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Last edited by TjB101; 08-08-2018 at 06:40 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:53 PM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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Not a dumb question at all, in fact it shows that you are thinking about it!

With most bullets there should not be any issue given the extra velocity you'll develop with the longer barrel. I don't have any experience with coated bullets, if you are pushing the velocities you'll likely want a good jacketed HP or Soft nose or a heavy for caliber gas checked, hard cast lead bullet.

Pushing a soft lead or perhaps a plated bullet may result in issues but other than that you should be good to go.

If the lever gun (I'm guessing on the action) is a Marlin with the micro-grove barrel it may not like any kind of lead or it might only tolerate hard cast and gas checked bullets driven at the upper end of the charge and velocity range...

Having a rifle and handgun in the same cartridge is a beautiful thing!
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  #5  
Old 08-09-2018, 06:21 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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The Capt is right on! The entire point is to be able to shoot the same ammo. Watch for speeds that cause leading. I found that my Henry HATES light loads!! When trying run of the mill 158 SWC with lighter 231 loads, they would just spit out all over the place. Even the JHP and plated with lighter loads would be everywhere. I jacked up the 231 and even CFE Pistol a little bit and the result was dramatic. I found rapid tightening of groups right around 1050 FPS. Hot azz 296 grouped well, but they all jumped to 2:00!
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2018, 08:48 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is online now
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Looking at the Lyman 49th Reloading Manual, the loads for .357 Mag Pistol and Rifle are identical(I just looked at the H110 data). But, there was about a 50% velocity increase with the rifle. Data for the 158 JHP was 1309 fps(4" bbl) vs 1829 fps(20" bbl). 17 gr of H110.
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:24 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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You need to look at the specific platform.

As has been stated you can generally always find a load that will work well for either a pistol or a rifle. However I have a Winchester late production (Miroku) gun that I run a .45 Colt round out of that is pretty hot. This same round, if run out of my S&W model 25 would turn it into junk in fairly short order.
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2018, 10:03 AM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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I use a 158gr lead over 4.9gr 231 very accurate in my handi rifle and black hawk
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2018, 10:40 AM
bsteiner27 bsteiner27 is offline
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Thanks for the info guys! You have pretty much reaffirmed what I thought. I got my self a Henry Big Boy and am loving it.
Right now I have some 158gr Berry's that I'm going to use up.(I know not to push them over 1250fps) My next question is do you think it is necessary to have a cannelure on the bullet for loading in the rifle?
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  #10  
Old 08-09-2018, 12:11 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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If it has a tubular magazine?

And I think that the Henrys do. Yes you will want a cannelure as well as a good crimp on your rounds to prevent bullet setback under recoil.
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  #11  
Old 08-09-2018, 06:22 PM
TjB101 TjB101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsteiner27 View Post
Thanks for the info guys! You have pretty much reaffirmed what I thought. I got my self a Henry Big Boy and am loving it.
Right now I have some 158gr Berry's that I'm going to use up.(I know not to push them over 1250fps) My next question is do you think it is necessary to have a cannelure on the bullet for loading in the rifle?

Regarding the cannelure I loaded a batch of Berry 125gr plated flat points that did not have one ... seemed to function just fine out of my BBoy
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  #12  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:07 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsteiner27 View Post
Thanks for the info guys! You have pretty much reaffirmed what I thought. I got my self a Henry Big Boy and am loving it.
Right now I have some 158gr Berry's that I'm going to use up.(I know not to push them over 1250fps) My next question is do you think it is necessary to have a cannelure on the bullet for loading in the rifle?
Yup!
We had been over the topic of roll crimping breaking through the plating. One of our members had shown examples of aggressive crimping for this same purpose. I was a skeptic until I tried a few Xtreme 158 FP with a cannelure and a pile of Rainer plated HP that had none. I used a fairly significant crimp.
I ran them at 1200 FPS and they were very accurate. I have not witnessed any plate shedding or piercing through the layer. Go for it dood!
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:04 AM
Capt. Methane Capt. Methane is offline
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I've shot some lighter loads from my Henry in .41 but didn't notice any real loss in accuracy but they weren't really mouse farts, may have to look into that-after I get the thing dialed in with some hunting loads of course!
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:36 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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The longer barrel allows the 100% burn of the slower powders and higher velocities. The longer barrel may also assist in stabilizing the bullet for better accuracy.

Your barrel, bullet and load data will determine the best combination for your purpose.

Isn't that the art of reloading?

Bullet fit will eliminate barrel leading. Follow the manufacturers recommendation regarding velocity when loading plated bullets.

You will be safe in using pistol caliber loads in your rifle. Isn't that the purpose, so the ammo can be used in both?

I have used polymer 240 grn. coated bullets in my 44 Mag. Henry without issues at around 850 FPS.

All the best,
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:12 PM
AutoTom AutoTom is offline
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Ok, I have a question. For my revolver[Blackhawk new model, 6.5" barrel], I load a +p load with 158gr lswc in .38 cases with 5.0gr Unique[5.0gr Unique], so no typo. Is this load good/safe in my new to me Henry BB Classic with 20" barrel? Asking as I have no dealings with this round in a lever gun, only revolver. Thanks.
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  #16  
Old 08-17-2018, 06:14 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoTom View Post
Ok, I have a question. For my revolver[Blackhawk new model, 6.5" barrel], I load a +p load with 158gr lswc in .38 cases with 5.0gr Unique[5.0gr Unique], so no typo. Is this load good/safe in my new to me Henry BB Classic with 20" barrel? Asking as I have no dealings with this round in a lever gun, only revolver. Thanks.
That’s at the very top of the 357 suggested loading range. I personally wouldn’t be putting that load in a 38 case, but that’s me and it’s why the 357 case was invented. The Henry will handle anything the Blackhawk can! You might want to try Win 296 or H110 if your goal is to achieve true magnum results.
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  #17  
Old 08-17-2018, 08:52 AM
AutoTom AutoTom is offline
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Nitro .45, I chose that load from the Speer #13 manual as it is called a .38+P. I shoot it in the Blackhawk. But, I get your meaning. I'll keep those for the handgun and load some lighter rounds for the Henry. Less pressure in the handgun with cylinder gap? Thanks.
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  #18  
Old 08-17-2018, 10:00 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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There have been several barge loads of .38 Special shot with 5 grains of Unique. Yes, it is +P by current standards but name brand guns hold it just fine.

Top of the .357 load range? Maybe with a swaged bullet where leading is the concern, certainly not a heavy load on pressure.

Less pressure in a revolver because of cylinder gap? No. Speer once built a single shot "cylinder" with pressure transducer and found that pressure peaked before the bullet was across the gap.

I see people loading PCC ammo different from their PCPs. I thought the point of a common caliber was to have common ammo.
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  #19  
Old 08-17-2018, 11:48 AM
AutoTom AutoTom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
There have been several barge loads of .38 Special shot with 5 grains of Unique. Yes, it is +P by current standards but name brand guns hold it just fine.

Top of the .357 load range? Maybe with a swaged bullet where leading is the concern, certainly not a heavy load on pressure.

Less pressure in a revolver because of cylinder gap? No. Speer once built a single shot "cylinder" with pressure transducer and found that pressure peaked before the bullet was across the gap.

I see people loading PCC ammo different from their PCPs. I thought the point of a common caliber was to have common ammo.
My thinking is along the lines of your answer. My concern now probably only will the lswc's feed properly. I'll get this figured out. New gun to fiddle with.
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  #20  
Old 08-17-2018, 01:07 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Yes, SWC shoulders and lever actions do not always get along.
There are roundnose flatpoints and truncated cones to smooth things up.
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  #21  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:15 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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Jim, I had taken my “top of the 357 load range” reference directly from the 10th edition Hornady book. 5 grains of Unique is indeed listed as their top load for a lead 158.
They list 4.2 as the top load for a 158 lead in 38spl.
Just citing what is written and my desire NOT to load 5.0 of Unique in a 38.
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  #22  
Old 08-18-2018, 03:29 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Yup, like I said; Speer says of .357 loads like 6 grains of Unique with their swaged lead bullet "The above loads are not at maximum pressure but were held to 1000 fps to reduce barrel leading."

Lyman shows a wide range of loads with their various moulds. The 155 gr gas check gets up to 5.1 grains of Unique in .38 Special, 5.3 for +P.

Last edited by Jim Watson; 08-18-2018 at 03:33 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2018, 09:38 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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That’s is perhaps why Hornady shows their reduction as well. The 5 grain load for 357 shows 950 for velocity.
They are keeping their max velocity to 800 with the .38.
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2018, 06:51 PM
AutoTom AutoTom is offline
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Thanks guys for the info. When I handload .38's for the Henry, it's going to be in .357 cases. Learning time here.
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  #25  
Old 08-20-2018, 06:45 AM
Nitro.45 Nitro.45 is offline
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I think that is wise.......
Always try to use several sources for your charge weights. Also keep in mind that many of the “older” books have significantly higher values than modern editions. Perhaps the powder formulations have changed a little, perhaps testing is better, but liability concerns are certainly being accounted for!
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