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  #1  
Old 10-07-2019, 08:03 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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Background Checks for Ammo? That's what these two want in FL

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/po...iza-story.html

I've had two NICS checks this calendar year, one in March, one the other day, at two different dealers. Both times took around 15 minutes averaged.

It's not automated, not here in Flori-duh anyway. I was told there's a human at the other end.

Facts, not feels, people. Facts must drive laws. These guys are all about the feels.
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2019, 08:35 PM
dsf dsf is offline
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Here are some "facts" re a similar ammo background check in CA.

It costs $1.00 per check, whether you buy a box or a case of ammo. If you're not already in the system by virtue of having bought a gun it costs $19.00 to get into the system. Your DL must match whatever address they have in the system - everyone who HASN'T moved in the last 10 years, raise your hand. No ammo for you. Don't have a "Real ID" or older CA ID - make sure you bring a passport to buy that box of 22s. Best of all, this type of restriction means ammo can't be left willy nilly on shelves where just anyone can get their hands on it, must be behind the counter or a locked case. How much fun is it going to Cabelas, Sportsmans Warehouse, Bass Pro, etc and waiting for someone to come around and unlock the case so you can grab a few boxes of 9mm?

Almost forgot - think you'll go out of state to buy, or get ammo through the mail? Nope, that becomes against the law.

The intent of this law is to kill ammo sales, pure and simple. To make it harder to make a living for the LGS and eliminate them by attrition.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2019, 05:55 AM
combat auto combat auto is online now
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Yes, the intention is clear, restrict it as much as possible...Similar bill passed the assembly in NJ this year, so far the NJ senate hasn't done anything with it...

Haven't bought ammo in a brick and mortar for 10 years, but banning internet ammo is very impacting to my shooting lifestyle.

What is the status with the NRA California internet ammo ban suite, anyone?
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2019, 09:56 AM
retsgt retsgt is offline
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Combat Auto: It is my understanding that NJ is having an issue with adapting the STATE nics system to the purchase of ammunition. And its not just the ammo issue. Licensing fees will increase, no internet ammo purchases, etc. Hopefully these will die in the senate.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:48 PM
slayer61 slayer61 is offline
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It is the "Californication" of the entire nation.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2019, 03:03 PM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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"Arms" includes ammunition. Infringement, pure and simple.
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2019, 05:43 PM
justjed justjed is offline
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Not just infringement, but an assault on a protected right. They whine about bullies, and at the stroke of midnight turn into them. The thinking is that conservatives are either too dumb to notice what is happening, or that there aren't enough of us to matter. It's about time to become a thorn in their sides. Or asses. Whatever works....

It seems that every one of these laws is authored and pushed by Democrats, not a few of whom are avowed communists. Perhaps a class action lawsuit against the DNC, as a whole, and their discriminatory practices towards law-abiding American citizens. Then, strip them of their citizenship, and ship their commie asses off to Venezuela. One way. And if they want back in, they'll have to go though ICE...
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:04 PM
Vos Parate Vos Parate is offline
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All Democraps can go take a flying fig on a rolling donut.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:43 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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It won't happen. The Florida legislature is predominantly pro-2nd amendment and Gov. De Santis would never sign that kind of garbage into law.
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:24 AM
silvermane_1911 silvermane_1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolymerMan View Post
It won't happen. The Florida legislature is predominantly pro-2nd amendment and Gov. De Santis would never sign that kind of garbage into law.
^I've heard the same about Fla. red flag laws too, so don't count your chickens, especially when it comes to anti-freedom laws an politicians.
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by silvermane_1911 View Post
^I've heard the same about Fla. red flag laws too, so don't count your chickens, especially when it comes to anti-freedom laws an politicians.
No, I agree with PolymerMan. You need to live in FL to realize how pro-gun the state is......for now. However, we are on the cusp; It is shifting, and rapidly, to a Blue State. Governor De Santis may be our last Rep Governor. Then it will change a East coast “California”.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:03 AM
Vos Parate Vos Parate is offline
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Sounds like a slow slide into S^%tholeistan. We are with you Florida. Hang in there.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:10 AM
joebuck joebuck is offline
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Yeah, The problem with FLA is there are too many degenerates who are pro-gun that dont vote and too many "outsiders" who vote democrat no matter what. Has been a 50/50 toss up here now for decades. Many Floridians will ignore any stupid gun laws.

Last edited by joebuck; 10-10-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:08 PM
cdhbrad cdhbrad is offline
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I'd be willing to bet that this is never heard by any Committee, House or Senate, in the upcoming 2020 Session, all of which are chaired by Republicans who control the agenda in both houses. Also, the FL Senate is even more heavily (R) controlled than the House. To ever get to the floor for a vote by either house, every Bill typically goes through at least 3 Committees any of which can kill a Bill. Gov. DeSantis will never get the chance to Veto it.

HB289 and SB460 in case anyone wants to follow the progress, or lack thereof, of these Bills. Committee meetings will begin soon.

Last edited by cdhbrad; 10-09-2019 at 02:23 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:20 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermane_1911 View Post
^I've heard the same about Fla. red flag laws too, so don't count your chickens, especially when it comes to anti-freedom laws an politicians.
The problem with the Red Flag laws is that both sides of the aisle believe we need to keep guns out of the hands of nutcases and criminals. I do as well, so do many people here. The problem is, we all disagree on the precise legal proceedings to remove guns from those that are dangerous, as well as how we define a "dangerous person" and whether a seizure of firearms should be executed before a person has had an opportunity to answer the allegation or respond. Ex parte orders of any kind are just simply unconstitutional.

To complicate things further, both liberals and conservatives give psychiatrists and psychologist too much credibility and authority to render opinions that can have drastic detrimental effects on the 2nd amendment rights of otherwise law abiding citizens.

Too many people think that psychiatrists knows all and base their finding on settled science or factually based medicine when the field of mental health is far from settled science like other fields of medicine where an MRI can be done, and an actual image of a diseased body part can be seen. There is no blood test and there is absolutely no imaging of a person's brain that can establish a repeatable diagnosis. It is all based on opinion and the bias or prejudice of the mental health professional.

We know from prior situations these people never get anything right. Dangerous people are treated as safe and harmless, and truly harmless people are are sometimes labeled erroneously as dangerous to themselves and others. They are all over the place with no scientific or medically sound method of determining who is prone to homicide and violent behavior. These psychiatrist wouldn't know a homicidal maniac if they bit them on the buttocks.

If it were me, I would restrict red flag laws solely to those that have made an articulable threat to do harm to others that has been repeated and documented (Criminal threatening). It is a legal issue, not in any way a medical issue,and there needs to be an arrest and a charge, which can then be answered by the defendant. That is the standard for all criminal cases in our well established system of law for the past several centuries.

Therein lies the bigger problem; the judicial systems gives these mental health professionals too much leeway and too much authority to make that determination, which has absolutely no underlying medical condition in 95% of the cases; and therefore the use of medical doctor is just inappropriate when it is simply a legal issue.

Then we have further complicated things with the red flag laws because now the standard is much reduced. Now they can take your guns away first based on nothing but an allegation by anyone, and then they can bring in the psychiatrist to make a further determination whether you should ever get your guns back.
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:03 PM
Get Out Get Out is offline
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IMOA, I believe these BGC laws on ammo are disguised as backdoor gun registration schemes. If we allow these BGC laws on the ammo to pass they'll be able to guess what types of weapons you have based off of the ammo you're wanting to buy.
Most here indicate they'd never register their firearms, but the anti-gunners won't need you too if and when you apply for the BGC on ammo, they'll know where to come and get the firearms.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:30 PM
cdhbrad cdhbrad is offline
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Take up Reloading......like I did about 6 years ago. No one is concerned, yet, about the sale of components. I load every round I shoot, .22LR excepted which I don't do often. I've got way more ammo loaded and sitting in containers than I'd ever walk into a store and buy at retail prices or even order online.
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:00 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by cdhbrad View Post
Take up Reloading......like I did about 6 years ago. No one is concerned, yet, about the sale of components. I load every round I shoot, .22LR excepted which I don't do often. I've got way more ammo loaded and sitting in containers than I'd ever walk into a store and buy at retail prices or even order online.
Takes up a lot of time though.
My days are hectic, so right now its easier to buy online bulk, saving the brass for reload days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Out View Post
IMOA, I believe these BGC laws on ammo are disguised as backdoor gun registration schemes. If we allow these BGC laws on the ammo to pass they'll be able to guess what types of weapons you have based off of the ammo you're wanting to buy.
Most here indicate they'd never register their firearms, but the anti-gunners won't need you too if and when you apply for the BGC on ammo, they'll know where to come and get the firearms.
Would you pay an extra $5 on say 200rnds if you did not need to go through the hassle of BC for ammo? Yes is the likely answer, and as such these stupid laws do nothing except open up the "black" market.
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:07 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by PolymerMan View Post
The problem with the Red Flag laws is that both sides of the aisle believe we need to keep guns out of the hands of nutcases and criminals. I do as well, so do many people here. The problem is, we all disagree on the precise legal proceedings to remove guns from those that are dangerous, as well as how we define a "dangerous person" and whether a seizure of firearms should be executed before a person has had an opportunity to answer the allegation or respond. Ex parte orders of any kind are just simply unconstitutional.
I perhaps disagree with you. Stop focusing on the things that don't work. Focus on things that do work, like arming every American. Trying to stop a nut case ahead of time is extremely fruitless. Having a armed population who can "instantly" act upon such nut case will yield much better fruit.

Guns in the hands of Americans is no more dangerous than drivers behind the wheel of a car. Sure, there will be some Darwin cases, some ND's, and perhaps some other real accidents, but the # dead will be way less.

You cannot stop it, but you can limit it.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:14 PM
TopJeff TopJeff is offline
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As much as it pains me to say this N Carolina is moving the same way.

I moved back here a few years ago after living in the Socialist Province of Wisconsin since I retired from the military. I found a Democratic Governor and a whole bunch of yankees from New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.

I used to joke that ammunition being more valuable than cash at some point.

May be time to stop joking!
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  #21  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:30 PM
PolymerMan PolymerMan is offline
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Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
I perhaps disagree with you. Stop focusing on the things that don't work. Focus on things that do work, like arming every American. Trying to stop a nut case ahead of time is extremely fruitless. Having a armed population who can "instantly" act upon such nut case will yield much better fruit.

Guns in the hands of Americans is no more dangerous than drivers behind the wheel of a car. Sure, there will be some Darwin cases, some ND's, and perhaps some other real accidents, but the # dead will be way less.

You cannot stop it, but you can limit it.
We have to live in the real world.

You will never put a nice Henry Repeater under every Christmas Tree in America and arm everyone, and make everyone a constitutional pro-2nd amendment advocate. It just will never happen. There are people that are not necessarily anti-gun... but have just never gotten around to buying a gun and have no interest in buying a gun. Those type of people vote and they have no dog in our dogfight. Those people could vote either way for a candidate that either advocates or wants to restrict 2nd amendment rights.

The problem is every time we have a well publicized mass shooting, those apathetic 2nd amendment people move to the other side... to the anti-gun side.

So, it is incumbent upon those of us that are pro-2nd amendment to minimize firearms falling into the hands of truly crazy fruitcakes. It is our responsibility. Because each and every time we have a crazy spree shooter, there is a shift in the public opinion that firearms must be restricted further. The worst thing we have to fear is another homicidal idiot picking up an AR15 and going on a rampage because we are all forced to pay the penalty in the long run.

That's the real world we live in. The trick is to come up a with a fair and legal way of preventing the homicidal crazies that has no effect on law abiding and well meaning gun owners that want to preserve the right to bear arms for lawful purposes.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:29 PM
Riverpigusmc Riverpigusmc is offline
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Originally Posted by cdhbrad View Post
I'd be willing to bet that this is never heard by any Committee, House or Senate, in the upcoming 2020 Session, all of which are chaired by Republicans who control the agenda in both houses. Also, the FL Senate is even more heavily (R) controlled than the House. To ever get to the floor for a vote by either house, every Bill typically goes through at least 3 Committees any of which can kill a Bill. Gov. DeSantis will never get the chance to Veto it.

HB289 and SB460 in case anyone wants to follow the progress, or lack thereof, of these Bills. Committee meetings will begin soon.
don't count on it. Those South Florida Rino jackasses have been screwing us on gun bills for YEARS. I live in Alachua County, and told Keith Perry I'd never vote for him again after he voted to raise the age for buying long guns to 21. The Republican party here has become full of Rinos, Cubans and transplant yankees
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:33 PM
justjed justjed is offline
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We HAD a fair and legal way to deal with the homicidal crazies, once upon a time. The were called by many names, asylum, nut-house, state hospital, etc. But with the Libtards more concerned about a nut-job's self-esteem than the welfare of the population at-large, these people no longer receive the kind of treatment they truly need. THAT'S why they're running the streets.

And because the commies NEED high crime rates to justify their social programs, as well as gun control.The FBI Crime Statistics were recently released, and showed a remarkably small percentage of violent crimes were perpetrated with rifles of ANY type. And a week or so later, the propaganda machine was running WIDE open. STUDIES that show a correlation between cities with strict gun control and lower crime rates. Depending on which information you cherry-pick, you can get a study to say anything you want it to, same as with polls. HOW you ask the question is more important than WHAT you are asking.
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  #24  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:56 PM
Old Grey Hare Old Grey Hare is online now
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Other than voting and strong-letter-writing, I duno what else to do.

Looking to maybe volunteer for either NRA things or RNC things in Broward / Dade. I realize this is a blue as blue gets, these two counties, but I wasn't thikning 2A when I moved here 20 years ago... I was looking for some sunshine (I'm tropical fish) and back then FL did seem a bit less.. blue.

Facts, not Feels.

I should put that on a bumpersticker and sell it. No one would get it tho. "Facts, not Feels, should drive the creation of Laws." It's from letters I've sent the President, the Senate LEader, and My Two RINO senators.

Problem is, the left (and the RINOs looking for easy voates) are ALL about the FEELS.. whinging "Oooohhhhhh thiiinkkkk of the chiiiiildren" as they clutch their chests.

There's gotta be a backlash against this attitude, a swing of the pendulum to the right.. we can't allow this to continue. And I see no way to stop it.
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  #25  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:03 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by Old Grey Hare View Post
Other than voting and strong-letter-writing, I duno what else to do.

Looking to maybe volunteer for either NRA things or RNC things in Broward / Dade. I realize this is a blue as blue gets, these two counties, but I wasn't thikning 2A when I moved here 20 years ago... I was looking for some sunshine (I'm tropical fish) and back then FL did seem a bit less.. blue.

Facts, not Feels.

I should put that on a bumpersticker and sell it. No one would get it tho. "Facts, not Feels, should drive the creation of Laws." It's from letters I've sent the President, the Senate LEader, and My Two RINO senators.

Problem is, the left (and the RINOs looking for easy voates) are ALL about the FEELS.. whinging "Oooohhhhhh thiiinkkkk of the chiiiiildren" as they clutch their chests.

There's gotta be a backlash against this attitude, a swing of the pendulum to the right.. we can't allow this to continue. And I see no way to stop it.
???
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