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  #1  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:29 PM
Totally Tactical Totally Tactical is offline
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Extractor Question

So I have this Jim Hoag Commander.
The gun was made in 1975 and Jim did his work a bit later.
The gun is hardchromed.
I changed all the springs and have two mags both 7 round Colt.
Recoil spring is 18lb.
One brand new and the one that came with it, which the feed lip measure the same as the new one and the spring seems fine.
The Extractor had very little tension when I got it.
I added some till it read 24 oz on my Weigland gauge.
Shot one box of Magtech 230 gr. ball had one failure to feed the last round on each magazine. Spent case ejected and last round stopped on it's way into the chamber.
I fired a second box of 230 gr. ball reloads and it ate the whole box.
only problem I get random ejection pattern.
I got the gun home and cleaned it and checked extractor tension again and now it reads 19 oz. on the Weigland gauge.
I'm thinking the hard chrome process killed the hardness on the Extractor.
I have a new Wilson Bullet Proof coming and figured I would gauge two other Commanders I have and see what the tension is on their Extractors.
What do you think? And thank You in advance for your advice.
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:39 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Tactical View Post
I have a new Wilson Bullet Proof coming and figured I would gauge two other Commanders I have and see what the tension is on their Extractors.

What do you think? And thank You in advance for your advice.
What I think is there's a lot more to fitting an extractor than just setting the tension. In my world, setting the deflection correctly before you fiddle with the tension will give you the best results. I recommend that you read the extractor fitting sticky above several times.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=829865
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:44 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Tactical View Post
I got the gun home and cleaned it and checked extractor tension again and now it reads 19 oz. on the Weigland gauge.
I'm thinking the hard chrome process killed the hardness on the Extractor.
I'm not a metallurgist but I suppose it's possible. Another thing that's possible is that the pistol experienced a bunch of push feeds during which the extractor hook was forced over the case rim rather than the case rim sliding up the breechface and under the hook. Enough of these will kill an extractor either by snapping the hook off the extractor or the extractor getting to the point where it won't maintain the bend required to achieve a specific tension.
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:00 PM
megafiddle megafiddle is offline
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Plating should not affect the spring quality of the extractor.

The flexing that occurs during operation can reduce the tension. If you take a recoil spring and stretch it a little to increase it's free length, it will increase its tension. But after full compression, much of the added tension will be lost again.

Also, note that the Weigand gauges do not actually measure tension. They only provide an indicator of the tension. What they actually measure is the force required to overcome the friction in pulling the gauge out. This can work, as the force required to pull the gauge out is proportional to the actual extractor tension.

But if something else changes, like the smoothness of the extractor bearing surface, the friction will change, and therefore the gauge reading. So it's possible some smoothing occurred also from shooting it. New parts can initially be a bit rough.

You might try re-tensioning it and see of it holds over another 100 rounds.

-
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:19 AM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megafiddle View Post
Plating should not affect the spring quality of the extractorů
If not properly processed it can. Ever hear of hydrogen embrittlement?

Armand did not do his own plating. I do not recall who did, but do recall comments about the blue cast of the plating from some of the earliest articles that I read about him. I'm not suggesting that the color has anything to do with it, just that I remember that tidbit. Point being that the hydrogen embrittlement problem can show up if a step was missed in the process, that step being post plating bake at ~395 degrees F within a specified time limit.
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2020, 06:31 AM
Totally Tactical Totally Tactical is offline
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Thank You for all the information.
I am having trouble understanding "Deflection"
Can somebody explain it to me better?
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2020, 06:56 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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Deflection is the distance the extractor is forced to move as a case rim engages the tensioning wall on the extractor right behind the hook. Essentially the flex distance. Determined by the size of the locating pad that limits the extractors at rest position as it hits the extractor bore. Also right behind the tensioning wall.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2020, 07:04 AM
Totally Tactical Totally Tactical is offline
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So it rests in the forward position. fitting pad against inner wall of tunnel and then moves back when the case rim engages it. That distance is the Deflection number?
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:06 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
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As I understand it, yes.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2020, 07:09 AM
Totally Tactical Totally Tactical is offline
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Thank You
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  #11  
Old 03-21-2020, 07:40 AM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
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The animated GIF below shows the case rim sliding up the breechface and pushing the extractor away from the centerline of the slide. Said differently, the extractor is being pushed outboard. This is deflection.

What you want to do is set the amount of deflection to be .010". A good number to use for average rim diameter is .475" so the gap between the left guide block and the extractor tensioning wall should be .465" to achieve .010" deflection (.475 - .465 = .010).




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