Won't come out of reset - 1911Forum
1911Forum
Advertise Here
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:04 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Won't come out of reset

I have a (new to me) Springfield MILSPEC that a friend let me have
because it has a problem.

It won't come out of reset.
It's seems like the disconnector is getting stuck down.

The main spring that was in it felt funky - not a lot of springy in it,
so I replaced it. That got the pistol shooting, but only for a while.
Now it's back to locking up in reset again.

When it happens the trigger gets stiff. It fires, but it's stiff.
Next round it's even stiffer, but will fire (12 to 15 pound pull I'm guessing)

Then it just fails to come out of reset.

I pulled the slide back - partially - not enough to eject the round
in the chamber, and let it spring forward.
It comes out of reset and fires, but won't come out of reset again
by itself. Repeated this six time and same results each time.

It dry fires perfectly reliably...

IT does NOT have a pre-travel adjustment screw.


Any ideas?
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America

Last edited by cavelamb; 03-11-2020 at 11:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:38 AM
markm markm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,353
Did you check the sear spring? Where it rides on the dissconnector or returns the trigger? Or can you pull the trigger forward and have it reset?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-12-2020, 08:22 AM
gunnut606 gunnut606 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS
Posts: 2,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post

It dry fires perfectly reliably...

IT does NOT have a pre-travel adjustment screw.


Any ideas?

How do you reset the hammer when dry firing ? Thumbing the hammer back or cycling the slide ?

Anyway, there is no pre-travel adjustment screw in a 1911, that is done by adjusting the front part of the trigger bow.

Remove the grip safety and see why the disconnector does not go back up when cycling the slide.

.
__________________
Group size is nothing if you did not hit what you aim at.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 03-12-2020, 08:26 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Eastern West Virginia
Posts: 5,042
This is often the case as the sear spring tip can be very sharp and actually dig into the bevel on the disconnector. The sharp tip of the sear spring needs to be stoned to a smooth shape and the disconnector bevel should be checked and stoned smooth if possible. A bad gouge may require the disconnector to be replaced.
Joe
__________________
1911
The original instant emergency response number.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-12-2020, 10:13 AM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Okay, that's a couple of things to look into.
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:18 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,233
Here is a tutorial that will help with some of the fine points of smoothing things up.

Google: "Wiegand 2.5 pound trigger pull"

Disassemble the receiver and start as if the gun has never fired!

Does the trigger move freely?

Look for areas of wear and stone as necessary. Pay attention to the relationship of the trigger "shoe" and the "Bow". I've seen these twisted out of alignment in all three directions!

Assemble the sear and disco and do the same. Does it move freely especially the movement of the disco up and down in the frame.

Assemble these parts and does everything still move freely?

Now add in the remaining parts one at a time to check for free movement.

Keep in mind the shape of the sear spring. Compare it to a known good spring. I've curred many trigger issues by returning the sear spring to original shape after "Bubba" fixed it!

Now assemble the rest and admire your gun mechanical skills!

Smiles,
__________________
John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 03-12-2020 at 12:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-12-2020, 02:53 PM
aprilian aprilian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 181
Good suggestions from more experienced people than me above.

Are you sure the safety isn't walking up from the recoil? That would cause your symptoms and would not occur during dry firing.

If none of that shows the problem, one I was working on last night had a item to check. The disconnector had rough spots where the window was punch out and there was a burr on the inside of the sear. Maneuvering them "just so" they would bind. a little stoning and they glided smoothly. Although I can't imagine how that would block the trigger pull as you described.

Another one had a tight spot in the frame where the perpendicular leaf of the sear spring leg went into the frame. If the sear spring rocked counter clockwise, it would grab on the frame. mine only impacted trigger feel, so not sure if it would cause a bind.

I'd disassemble, ink everything, light lube and go shooting. Stop when it locks up. Disassemble and you should see unexpected spots where the ink is gone.

Last edited by aprilian; 03-12-2020 at 02:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-12-2020, 04:49 PM
log man log man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Riverside County, CA
Posts: 14,277
The bow could be wedging under the grip safety arm.

LOG
__________________
Warning, do not remove any material from your pistol or any of it's parts if you do not know the result and it's consequences! .......it gun....gun dangerous...Email: [email protected]

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:13 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Logman, apralian, and jjfitch.

I haven't had time today, but will look at all these ideas tomorrow.

Log, I think I do see some indication that the bow is at least rubbing on the magazine.
But didn't check to see if the problem was magazine specific.

Looks like I'm going to get a chance to learn something here...
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-13-2020, 01:55 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
A quick look at it this morning...

The trigger bow was so tight on the magazine that it almost wouldn't slide on.
I mean tight!

It looks like someone had stomped on it a few times. Sorta.
Stoning the inside surface of the bow showed several "bumps" - high spots.
But stoning wasn't going to get it done anytime soon.
I worked it with fine files, stones, and slick sandpaper until it would move easily
on the magazine. Mainly knocking down the bumps.

The disconnector face showed signs of being scratched from the spring.
That is now smoothed out.
And the edge of the disconnector spring has been smoothed.

Not having spare parts easily available for comparison sucks.
Gonna have to do something about that some day.

I'll get back to it in a few days when I can get it to the range again.

Thanks all.
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-13-2020, 01:57 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by log man View Post
The bow could be wedging under the grip safety arm.

LOG
From the feel of it when shooting I'd like to examine this as a possible source of the problem.
How to do that???

But it's possible that he trigger was simply getting stuck aft.
I never thought to try to pull the trigger forward when it it wouldn't reset.
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-13-2020, 02:54 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,233
OP:
"The trigger bow was so tight on the magazine that it almost wouldn't slide on.
I mean tight!

It looks like someone had stomped on it a few times. Sorta.
Stoning the inside surface of the bow showed several "bumps" - high spots.
But stoning wasn't going to get it done anytime soon.
I worked it with fine files, stones, and slick sandpaper until it would move easily
on the magazine. Mainly knocking down the bumps.

The trigger bow was so tight on the magazine that it almost wouldn't slide on.
I mean tight!

It looks like someone had stomped on it a few times. Sorta."

Google:
Brownell's
080-710-045WB
Single-Stack Trigger Stirrup Die


This is often used to reform triggers that get stomped on!

Smiles,
__________________
John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 03-13-2020 at 03:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-13-2020, 03:45 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 2,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
From the feel of it when shooting I'd like to examine this as a possible source of the problem.
How to do that???
https://forums.1911forum.com/showpos...06&postcount=7
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-13-2020, 06:32 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belcamp, Maryland, USA
Posts: 8,112
Two other things to check if the other measures don’t find an issue:
Disconnector head is the ball type on a SA 1911’s. If it is tight in its bore
then the pistol may not reset;
The legs on the sear may be dragging on the top of the connector paddle.
__________________
The modern production 1911 - high visibility sights, beavertail grip safety, aluminum trigger, good trigger pull, enhanced slide/ frame fit, accurized barrel/bushing fit. If it’s not a Kimber, it’s a copy.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-16-2020, 07:34 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
I ordered the Trigger Bow tool from Brownells.
There's just no way I was going to get this thing straightened out without it.

Since that is one serious issue I feel like I need to get it out of the way first
and see how the pistol runs then.
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-16-2020, 08:25 PM
markm markm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
I ordered the Trigger Bow tool from Brownells.
There's just no way I was going to get this thing straightened out without it.
If you can get that thing to work you'll have to explain how.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-16-2020, 09:05 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Alabama and Florida, US
Posts: 11,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
If you can get that thing to work you'll have to explain how.
I've used one for many years. What do you need explained about the use? Maybe I can help.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-16-2020, 09:07 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,233
Calipers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
I ordered the Trigger Bow tool from Brownells.
There's just no way I was going to get this thing straightened out without it.

Since that is one serious issue I feel like I need to get it out of the way first
and see how the pistol runs then.
About once a year or more often if needed I'll "recalibrate" all my magazines. They get a bath in my ultrasonic cleaner and get tested in their assigned 1911. I usually have 5-8 mags per gamer and 3 per EDC.

Mags get loaded and functioned tested in each firearm with the slide removed to check ease of in-out and location of the slide release lug to mag follower.

Some mags need a little squeeze in a padded vice to insure "drop free" function. Usually toward the top because the rounds push against the feed lips and they can expand.

Some followers require a little adjustment, especially folded followers. The bottom leaf gets adjusted outward for better S/R lug engagement.

When using the trigger "bow" reforming tool you'll also want to recheck the orientation of the trigger. Sometimes a little "tweeking" is required to get things lined up.

Smiles,
__________________
John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 03-16-2020 at 09:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-16-2020, 10:06 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
If you can get that thing to work you'll have to explain how.

BFH, mark.

__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-17-2020, 04:55 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,046
Checking the "arm" of the grip safety.....

With the gun fully assembled, remove the slide. You can then peer inside the back of the grip at the trigger bow using a flash light to see how the grip safety arm is moving inside the gun when you depress the grip safety. When the gun is not gripped, the nose of the grip safety arm should block the back of the trigger bow, and when the grip safety is depressed, it will rotate to lift the nose of the grip safety arm so the cut out area of the grip safety arm will allow the trigger to move to the rear..... on a good trigger job, the sear and hammer hooks engage about .020" so it doesn't take much rearward trigger movement when the grip safety arm moves upward to "unblock the trigger" to break the shot.....

You should be able to feel any "drag" on the grip safety arm if it is not fitted properly.....which may cause issues with the disconnector not resetting properly.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-17-2020, 05:37 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Thank you for the explanation, Rwe.
I'm going to study that and see what I can see.

The Milspec is running now - just like it's supposed to.

I got the trigger bow loose enough to slide over the magazines freely.
All but one mag anyway. That one seems to have a bulge near the top.
It may still be a bit lumpy, so the bow tweek is still gonna happen.
Just because.

I ran 50 round through it today.
Not a single hick-up.

The trigger is a bit heavy for me.
7.5 pounds.
But I can fix that.

I'm just happy to have the silly thing running right.

Fine tuning to come soon.

Many thinks to all who helped me figure this one out and taught me more about how
everything works together. It's a cool machine.
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:15 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,233
Cavelamb:

"I got the trigger bow loose enough to slide over the magazines freely.
All but one mag anyway. That one seems to have a bulge near the top."

See post #18!

Smiles,
__________________
John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-17-2020, 08:07 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfitch View Post
Cavelamb:

"I got the trigger bow loose enough to slide over the magazines freely.
All but one mag anyway. That one seems to have a bulge near the top."

See post #18!

Smiles,



Saw it, and took it to heart.
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:47 PM
cavelamb cavelamb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 3,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
If you can get that thing to work you'll have to explain how.
It was "interesting".
I even read the directions.
But the directions really weren't much help.
Not a big problem, but I can see where it could be a challenge.

This bow is a little on the skinny side.
Specs say inside dimension is .555 -.005
This one mikes at .550 inside (!), .619 outside.
(Drawing 5153126)

Magazine width is .541 +.008 -.006 (.549 max)

Anyway,
The Brownell block measures .559 wide.
Uh-huh!

So when I first "slid" the bow onto the block - it took some force.
Ran it down about where the picture showed.
Brass hammer - tap tap tap. Straightened out the bow nicely.
Set the angle on the back end.

Then the bow simply would not fit in the frame. No way, no how.

The grooves in the frame that the trigger rides in mike .622 -
at least at the back end when I can get at them.

(I couldn't find the dimension for this on the drawings.
Might be part on 6535359? top right?)

So the next trick was to narrow the bow while keeping the sides parallel
at the correct dimension. Laid the bow on the die of the block and
tap tap tap - mostly at the rear when the angled cross piece is.
Then used the block to open the bow back up a bit at a time buy working the
bow down on it at an angle - trying to spread the bow evenly.

It took less than 5 minutes to get a near perfect fit.
Trigger freely falls in place in the frame, and falls over the magazines.

I was planning to do the old fashioned solder blob mod on the front of the bow
to adjust pre-travel/take up. But this trigger show is polymer. Might not be
such a good idea to get it hot enough to solder, so I'll leave it alone.
It's not bad. But it's more noticeable than my Range Officer.
I can live with it. After all, it's supposed to be reminiscent of an A1.
(yes, there are triggers that have adjustment tabs for that. But they cost money)

As for the block being "oversized", it's not.
It's just made to match the maximum magazine width.
It has to be to be able to stretch the metal out to maximum dimension tolerance.
Then we work it back down to fit a particular frame.

That's why it's an ART not a science.
__________________
-
NRA Life Member - NRA RSO - NRA Pistol Instructor
Texas State Rifle Assoc. - Gun Owners of America
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-24-2020, 02:47 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Alabama and Florida, US
Posts: 11,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavelamb View Post
…The grooves in the frame that the trigger rides in mike .622 -

(I couldn't find the dimension for this on the drawings.
Might be part on 6535359? top right?)…
Trigger track spec is .623" +.005"/-.000". Square file and trigger track stones are the go to for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavelamb
I was planning to do the old fashioned solder blob mod on the front of the bow
to adjust pre-travel/take up. But this trigger show is polymer…
(yes, there are triggers that have adjustment tabs for that. But they cost money)
You can use a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut a couple parallel notches on one side of the front curve in the bow to create a tab to bend forward. I've done it many times. Works well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavelamb
…The Brownell block measures .559 wide…
As for the block being "oversized", it's not.
It's just made to match the maximum magazine width.
It has to be to be able to stretch the metal out to maximum dimension tolerance…
Shim stock.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:24 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2015 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved