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  #51  
Old 06-30-2020, 07:33 PM
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While I sympathize with them, they should have known better than to point their weapons in the direction of the protesters. Keeping the weapons visible, but slung or holstered would have made a lot more sense.
Exactly. They should have stood on the other side of the wall outside their house, rather than in front of their house. Or, stood on that tall balcony.

Only someone throwing rocks directly at them, or throwing a fire bomb at their house should have a gun pointing at them - in which case deliberate aim with the intent to shoot should be made obvious.

Had there been a shot fired, a crowd would react in one of two ways: Run away, or rush the armed couple. Being rushed by a crowd spanning more than 180 degrees is not going to end well. Much better to have a barrier (like that wall) between them, to slow down the flow and make it obvious that everyone crossing that barrier is likely to get shot.

The silly brandishing made me wonder who is guarding the other side of the house? What about later; after sunset? The couple are almost begging to find out, with what seemed like unnecessarily provocative action.

Either the gun wielding couple are new gun owners with zero training (to the point of being dangerous), or they are working for "the other side" to make anti-gun propaganda...

People in this sort of position should take notes from the Korean store owners standing on the roofs of their buildings defending their property during the '92 LA riots. Out of harms way, with a good view of what is coming. Of course, if one is expecting to be shot at, skylighting yourself on top of a building would not be smart either.
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  #52  
Old 06-30-2020, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandpas50AE View Post

<snip>

Human history is replete with examples of how "commoners" subject themselves to all sorts of atrocity, nothing new here. Those that pioneered this country wanted none of that, and formed a new nation of individual responsibility with recognition of the fact that SOCIETIES are built by those of common thought: societies with personal responsibility, self sufficiency, and individual thought and work ethic do well, but the opposite philosophy results in what we see today in anarchy, self-worship and aggrandizement, dependency on government, and all that goes with evil and self-destruction. What most people in society believe as a value system, becomes the base for their society, and all that they implement as their value system becomes either a building block or a destructive tool to degenerate all that they could become.
Great post, sir. Saving this one.
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  #53  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PolymerMan View Post
... and now that couple which was clearly defending their lives on their homestead property of more than 30 years may be facing criminal charges by the libtard democrap prosecutor.

The St. Louis lawyers who pulled weapons on protesters marching past their home are being investigated for possible criminal charges, the city’s lead prosecutor has revealed.
While I sympathize with them, they should have known better than to point their weapons in the direction of the protesters. Keeping the weapons visible, but slung or holstered would have made a lot more sense. Sadly these two may end up becoming felons just for doing something they thought was within their rights. Of course, being lawyers they should have known what the law was to begin with.
Watch the video and count how many times she flagged the back of her husbands head with the muzzle of her (presumably) loaded pistol. I fully support her 2A rights and commend her for her courage in confronting the mob...but that woman desperately needs basic firearm safety training.
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  #54  
Old 06-30-2020, 09:32 PM
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They BOTH need training. The husband's "A-Team" hold on his AR wasn't too professional either, although he did keep his finger off the trigger as best I could tell. Unfortunately this is how most gun owners in this country typically handle their firearms. Only a small percentage of us are tactical nerds who know to use the low-ready hold and keep the muzzle pointed towards the ground instead of directly at other people.
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  #55  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:35 AM
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I hope to see security camera footage (If any) that will show if the mob was coming up the steps and approaching the house. McCloskey also said there were armed protestors that shouted "You're next while brandishing their own weapons", once again security footage would show this too.
Speaking as a Monday morning quarterback, I believe my reaction to a BLM mob known for violence wouldn't have been similar. Not to sure which direction to go if fleeing the scene or barricade in the house is the best option?
  #56  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:50 AM
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From "Warren on Homicide" - authors Oscar Le Roy Warren et al

"Any member of the mob shares the responsibility for the fear the mob has caused and therefore shares the general jeopardy of the lawful defensive response"
.

There - that's a thing you now know. File under 'Pre-existing Knowledge". Credit to Massad Ayoob.

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  #57  
Old 07-01-2020, 11:18 AM
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I hope to see security camera footage (If any) that will show if the mob was coming up the steps and approaching the house. McCloskey also said there were armed protestors that shouted "You're next while brandishing their own weapons", once again security footage would show this too.
Again assuming this was true, standing right out in the open like that was a really poor tactical move. Unfortunately so many armed homeowners know so little about what to do and what not to do that it's a miracle most of them survive deadly encounters with bad guys.
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  #58  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:44 PM
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Hmm, doubt there would be any tactical thought going on even if he did have tactical training. This was a high stress moment from the get go in that all of a matter of minutes, you're pucker factor is through the roof by being surprised by 500 BLM protestors breaking down your gate, walking through your yard and into your private street.

I did notice no one walked up or challenged them up close either.
  #59  
Old 07-01-2020, 02:47 PM
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I did notice no one walked up or challenged them up close either.
That bug eyed woman monster was one hot flash away from pulling the trigger.
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  #60  
Old 07-01-2020, 03:00 PM
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That bug eyed woman monster was one hot flash away from pulling the trigger.
Yeah, while watching the video I expected to see the wife drop her husband first.
  #61  
Old 07-01-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
They BOTH need training. The husband's "A-Team" hold on his AR wasn't too professional either, although he did keep his finger off the trigger as best I could tell. Unfortunately this is how most gun owners in this country typically handle their firearms. Only a small percentage of us are tactical nerds who know to use the low-ready hold and keep the muzzle pointed towards the ground instead of directly at other people.
Both Hubby and Wifey were reckless with their weapons, but let us set that aside for the sake of argument. I watched Tucker Carlson last night and Mark McCloskey appeared on the show with their attorney. I believe he has an ironclad affirmative defense based on common law self-defense. They showed an iron gate that was smashed down... and expensive, wrought iron foot gate. Easily several thousand in damages.

There was nothing peaceful about the protesters.

If this was in Florida, even the leftist commie prosecutors would have a near impossible time getting these people (McCloskey's) indicted.

McCloskey said that the mob was threatening to kill them, burn the house down, and kill their pet. McCloskey claims that members of the mob also displayed weapons.

The actions and words of a perpetrator(s) dictates whether brandishing a lethal weapon is legal. Keep in mind, that this mob smashed the gate. A picture of a twisted broken gate was shown. One of the protestors said that the gate was opened.

Given the facts, pictures, video, and statement from the people involved, I believe the McCloskey's version of the facts... this was well beyond property damage. It was a threat to life and property and reasonable fear for their lives was suffered by the McCloskey couple. It was a real reasonable fear. It wasn't just the destruction of the gate, but the words used and the sheer numbers of threatening protesters on their lawn that made the brandishing of weapons 100% legal under most self-defense common laws in the USA. Also keep in mind that there was no discharge involved, but mere brandishing, and it worked. The protesters left them alone.

Last edited by PolymerMan; 07-01-2020 at 03:29 PM.
  #62  
Old 07-01-2020, 04:46 PM
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Well, let's hope the legal system agrees. With government officials left and right bowing to these protesters I'm not too confident.
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  #63  
Old 07-01-2020, 04:55 PM
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This just in from Clay County Florida (Jacksonville Area)

Sheriff will deputize any legally armed citizen if the Sheriff's department can't handle the unruly protesters.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ws-deputize-g/
Quote:
ďIf we canít handle you, Iíll exercise the power and authority as the sheriff and Iíll make special deputies of every lawful gun owner in the county and Iíll deputize them to this one purpose: to stand in the gap between lawlessness and civility,Ē said Daniels, sporting a white cowboy hat as he stood in front of 18 deputies.
If more Law enforcement departments took this action, these protesting idiots would quickly be put back where they belong... in their Mama's basement and under quarantine.
  #64  
Old 07-01-2020, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
While I sympathize with them, they should have known better than to point their weapons in the direction of the protesters. Keeping the weapons visible, but slung or holstered would have made a lot more sense. Sadly these two may end up becoming felons just for doing something they thought was within their rights. Of course, being lawyers they should have known what the law was to begin with.
I disagree. Judging from the prosecutor, they probably will face charges. But I don't see a problem pointing their guns. That's what people do when they feel threatened. If you don't want a gun pointed at you, don't come in my yard causing all kinds of rukus. No question this crowd was threatening. Then add all the crap we've seen the crowds do over the last month. These two people were scared and I don't blame them.
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  #65  
Old 07-01-2020, 07:38 PM
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Sheriff will deputize any legally armed citizen if the Sheriff's department can't handle the unruly protesters.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ws-deputize-g/


If more Law enforcement departments took this action, these protesting idiots would quickly be put back where they belong... in their Mama's basement and under quarantine.
Now that's a sheriff. Wish mine had guts like that.
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  #66  
Old 07-01-2020, 07:48 PM
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Lost in all of this quarter backing is the fact that it worked. Just like the two guys who met the mob at the front of their store with shotguns. That worked too. We should be commending them, not throwing them under the bus because they weren't tactically perfect. This is what we talk about all the time, daily in fact. Cops aren't coming, security is derelict, what do you do? There's no better argument for owning firearms.

I don't care that they made mistakes. I care that they met the mob with a firearm and were able to diffuse the situation. A gun saved the day, yet again. Just like we've all been saying for our entire lives. That's what I care about.
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  #67  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:04 PM
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Sheriff will deputize any legally armed citizen if the Sheriff's department can't handle the unruly protesters.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ws-deputize-g/


If more Law enforcement departments took this action, these protesting idiots would quickly be put back where they belong... in their Mama's basement and under quarantine.
We need a lot more like that!
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  #68  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:30 PM
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Lost in all of this quarter backing is the fact that it worked. Just like the two guys who met the mob at the front of their store with shotguns. That worked too. We should be commending them, not throwing them under the bus because they weren't tactically perfect. This is what we talk about all the time, daily in fact. Cops aren't coming, security is derelict, what do you do? There's no better argument for owning firearms.

I don't care that they made mistakes. I care that they met the mob with a firearm and were able to diffuse the situation. A gun saved the day, yet again. Just like we've all been saying for our entire lives. That's what I care about.
Concise and well put.
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  #69  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:38 PM
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Concise and well put.
Thank you
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  #70  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:40 PM
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But I don't see a problem pointing their guns. That's what people do when they feel threatened.
Fine, except that the wife was waving that pistol around like a magic wand, rather than anything close to aiming it at a specific threat.

If that pistol was ready to go, the husband was very likely to catch a round in the head, several times...
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  #71  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:42 PM
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Fine, except that the wife was waving that pistol around like a magic wand, rather than anything close to aiming it at a specific threat.



If that pistol was ready to go, the husband was very likely to catch a round in the head, several times...
Yes, I'm aware. But she didn't and the mob was quelled. Seems like it turned out all right to me.

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  #72  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:05 PM
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I don't care that they made mistakes. I care that they met the mob with a firearm and were able to diffuse the situation. A gun saved the day, yet again. Just like we've all been saying for our entire lives. That's what I care about.
Hear, hear!

Those two, they need support. No matter what their political leanings, no matter what other factors -- Americans exercising their RKBA are being pilloried in the media and by Communist prosecutors --- we must support them.

Dunno how, as they are obviously monied, are lawyers themselves *and* they have what appears to be a competent lawyer -- but still -- if us gun owners don't stick up for each other... who will?

Stay frosty on July 4, folks.
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  #73  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:12 PM
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Hear, hear!

Those two, they need support. No matter what their political leanings, no matter what other factors -- Americans exercising their RKBA are being pilloried in the media and by Communist prosecutors --- we must support them.

Dunno how, as they are obviously monied, are lawyers themselves *and* they have what appears to be a competent lawyer -- but still -- if us gun owners don't stick up for each other... who will?

Stay frosty on July 4, folks.
And pilloried by us too, apparently.

"Oh boy, she pointed a gun at them. Yep, she deserves charges. They should have gotten training."

It was the mobs fault, not hers. Training is good, everyone should get some type of training. But these two were able to protect themselves and their property without any training at all. That's the power of firearms.

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  #74  
Old 07-02-2020, 03:02 AM
javichin colt javichin colt is offline
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Originally Posted by Striker2237 View Post
I'm not white, I also have at minimum a G32c with 5 mags and zero reservations about mowing people over. They will move or die
Friend, if you are not white do not worry about it.. no mob is going to confront you..

All the best,
  #75  
Old 07-02-2020, 03:19 AM
javichin colt javichin colt is offline
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They BOTH need training. The husband's "A-Team" hold on his AR wasn't too professional either, although he did keep his finger off the trigger as best I could tell. Unfortunately this is how most gun owners in this country typically handle their firearms. Only a small percentage of us are tactical nerds who know to use the low-ready hold and keep the muzzle pointed towards the ground instead of directly at other people.
You are right, one thing I noticed while being in America is that most gun owners have little training and know nothing about gun handling, they have the right but not the training. Of course it does not apply to real gun aficionados like this forum's members. Please do not get me wrong.

Here is the opposite, those civilians who own handguns and centerfire rifles (the few) have to attend training for nearly a year before getting the sport license approved. Having to be involved in serious ISSF or IPSC competition on a basis to keep the license alive means a lot when talking about safe handling of guns.

Last edited by javichin colt; 07-02-2020 at 03:23 AM.
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