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  #1  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:48 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Heat survival

The scenario: dangerous heat wave and the grid crashes. No AC or fans, maybe community cooling centers/swimming pools have auxiliary power, but maybe not.

What are you going to do? What if there are young children/elderly in your care?

Something similar happened to us years ago. We had to bug out but fortunately there was cooler weather 150 miles away on the coast.
What if 400 miles or more is what it takes to get out of the hot zone?

FWIW there were no accommodations available so we just camped out in the blissfully cool fog until arrangements could be made for the babies to stay with grandparents in another, cooler town. By that time the AC was working again.

My lesson learned: My camping kit is my survival kit.

Last edited by John Joseph; 07-17-2019 at 09:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:23 PM
bs1911 bs1911 is offline
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Society survived in a non air conditioned world up to 100 years ago. I think I can make it a few days...
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:53 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Originally Posted by bs1911 View Post
Society survived in a non air conditioned world up to 100 years ago. I think I can make it a few days...
On this continent, the native people were mostly nomads, but that was long before we became acclimated to HVAC and started dwelling in paved cities.
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2019, 05:53 AM
Fizz Fizz is offline
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You might want to put some salt tablets in your camping kit. I remember pouring concrete day after day in Texas when they had heat wave warnings. Long days. We drank a lot of water and ate salt tablets. Our blue jeans would turn white just below the knees from all the salt that would leach out of our bodies. Some elderly folks died but maybe their time was up and they would have died anyway. I am not acclimated to handle the heat now and hopefully never will be again. Maybe I would sit somewhere with a cooler full of water to dip my shirt and hat in until the heat wave was over.

Last edited by Fizz; 07-18-2019 at 06:04 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2019, 10:14 AM
Icecream Icecream is offline
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Not belittling your post just saying.

What is dangerous heat wave? I visited my grandparents farm in the mid south and no AC, no electric for a fan and cooked on a wood fire stove, water pump outside (cool water though) and worked a farm. Lived into the 80s as did my great grandma on the same farm. I asked my mom how they did along with her, she said they just did it.

We just went through record setting heat in June and we do not have AC in homes, a few do with a window unit. Inside our house it hovered 96f with dead air for weeks (norm avg temps mid-high 60s) parts of the area actual hit over 100f. Wildfires were blazing choking the air to include inside the house all June, still do on days.

Three deployments to the desert, first one we had no AC, fans, electric just big green tents in the sand and temps were 110f or so.

Drink lots of water and limit time exerting energy and direct sun.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:29 AM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Wink

Me & Blinky got the Three Rivers to swim around here in - we're cool.

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  #7  
Old 07-21-2019, 12:48 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Remember this and you will be fine.

Never let yourself get too far away from the ice cream stand.
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  #8  
Old 07-21-2019, 11:54 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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But, but... what if they run out of your favorite flavor?



Like the others said... stay hydrated and find shade. Taking care of infants and the elderly will be tough... but so it was back in the 1800s as well. We have modern medicine and our cushy technological conveniences to thank for reduced infant mortality rates and greater life expectancy. Lose that and we're back to the way things were 100 years ago.
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:41 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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A personal anecdote re heat stroke.

Some years ago I was out on the range building a catch pen, about 5 acres +/-
Got started early in the morning before sunrise and had plenty of drinking water (even a 625 gallon stock tank) and of course a wide brimmed hat.
I took regular water breaks but at 1:00pm, about when I'd planned to knock off for the day the brush started to look, well, green.
I knew darned well it was dried brown and figured I needed to get out of the sun.
I dunked my head in the stock tank to cool off and
by the time I got to the truck the landscape looked like an old sepia toned photograph.
I put the truck's (excellent) AC on max and started down the dirt road towards the hospital but developed tunnel vision so I had the pull over and drank every bit of water I had left, and parked while the 'tunnel' grew smaller and smaller and everything went sepia.
I laid down across the bench seat with the AC vents pointed at me to cool my core temperature.

After about 60 minutes my sight returned and I could drive to get help.

I'm not a Mojave Indian used to living in 120 degree weather. If you are, more power to you but if you're not, consider extreme heat to be a threat worth at least acknowledging.

I didn't have a plan but was fortunate enough to "wing it" to my advantage.
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  #10  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:43 AM
Taxed2death Taxed2death is offline
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Well, a whole-house generator running on natural gas helps when the grid goes down. A backup gasoline generator and a portable AC unit helps if Plan A fails. A house designed to utilize natural ventilation and that is heavily insulated helps if Plan B fails. LOTS of shaded porch area and a swimming pool to cool down in helps if Plan C fails (or if it is just a nice day to hang out in the pool and chill on the hammock).

Lots of water and sports drinks with electrolytes on hand is a must. Salt tablets are a great idea if you are working outdoors in the heat. I've spent most of my life in South Texas where it gets "warm" in the summer and have acclimated to heavy labor in the heat, but I've also pushed things to the limit before and know now that it is WAY better not to do so. Learning the signs of impending heat exhaustion or heat stroke are essential if you are going to live and work in areas where the ambient environment creates the potential, and being smart enough to pay attention to those signs and act on them are an essential survival skill. Killing yourself in your effort to survive tough situations when it can be avoided, or at least minimized, is pretty stupid!
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:10 AM
BobBrian BobBrian is offline
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I have 2 alternate suggestions for you
1. Look up solar chimney for utility free venting. You can make these yourself. The ones for retrofit over existing windows apparently are great as they also block the sun from entering your room. But you can't see out of that window. You need to put them in your sunn window and taller chimneysnwith greater her differential work best. Basically they use the heat of the sun to drive natural ventilation. A passive house technique. Very cool....

2. If you want to spend a little money, try a second hand portable a/c first? You move it to right beside you when hot and don't need to cool the whole house or room, just have cooler air blowing at you when needed. Or maybe solution on here could suit you

I don't know if these would suit you, but if you don't have a/c now, maybe not a bit stretch.. Good luck!
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2020, 03:47 PM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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Being fit is priority one. You can die otherwise. Kuwait - the only the shade is of camo net over armor plate: that is pretty hot. After two weeks you learn to tolerate, but never easy. If you are in leadership, make sure your people drink, watch them drink, if they stop drinking...it is too hard to rehydrate. Drink as much water as you can logistically support. Loose baggy clothing, eat and stay in shade. Avoid sunburn, that includes your hands and face. Make as many jokes as you can, keep peoples minds occupied. Pray to God you don’t need to go MOPP-4.

At night prepare to freeze.
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2020, 05:10 PM
GONRA GONRA is offline
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bs1911 GONRA views History as - "Before and After Central Air".
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  #14  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:40 PM
Pat-inCO Pat-inCO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Joseph
What if 400 miles or more is what it takes to get out of the hot zone?
How long have you been working for the media?
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2020, 07:29 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Like the others said... stay hydrated and find shade. Taking care of infants and the elderly will be tough... but so it was back in the 1800s as well. We have modern medicine and our cushy technological conveniences to thank for reduced infant mortality rates and greater life expectancy. Lose that and we're back to the way things were 100 years ago.
Very true.... additionally, there's a difference between simply being in the heat and [I]working in the heat. Most will be ok sitting on the front porch in a 115°desert- so long as they stay out of direct sun and stay well hydrated. Doing light, moderate, heavy and extreamly heavy physical work or activities becomes exponentially difficult, and requires a solid baseline of fitness to begin with.

Here at the schoolhouse, we take heat injuries very seriously. Students have died. They have had multiple organ failures, and been medically separated. $400 Yeti coolers aren't for keeping the beer cold during social events- they're medical/ safety equipment- slush and dunk tanks. Ice, water, a pinch of salt, you have contents that are ~24°... if somebody exhibits any indication of heat injury, a core temperature is mandatory- probe up the 4th point of contact, its not optional.

We had a SOCOM that redefined how we look at heat injuries. He was able to quantify the effects of high core temp over time. The big takeaway- once the core hits 104°, cumulative, permanent effect start to occur, that get exponentially worse by the minute- literally. Rapid, radical, aggressive cooling will drop temp up to 1/2 degree per minute....
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:38 PM
Red Dirt Dave Red Dirt Dave is offline
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As has been already, correctly indicated being in the heat is far different than working in the heat.

I have found that a well shaded hole in the ground - preferably on the slope of a north facing hill - stays a bit cooler.

You can always just watch to see where the cows go when it gets hot.
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2020, 01:15 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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My question for the OP is why woild you "bug out" to get away from a hot weather anomaly, that typically last a few days, maybe a week?
Even if the heat (or demand) causes electrical outages, and you don't have a/c, it won't kill you- unless you're elderly and in relatively poor health... in which case you're in no condition to travel.
If you can leave, you have no pressing, mandatory hard physical labour to do at home. Sit in the shade on the front porch, sweat, and drink pleanty of water.... dont forget to eat...
May be uncomfortable, but you'll be fine.
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:20 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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Old enough that I've been there done that like some others on here. First time I lived in Texas was in the mid-70s. We had a fan or two, but A/C was not a part of our life then. I rode a motorcycle all over the place and wandered around on foot. I was also young and fit. Being out on the bike, horse, and on foot, probably acclimated me the most. Both back on the farm in southern Ohio and there in south Texas I and others loaded hay the old fashioned way in the summer heat. Dragging heavy rectangular bales, slinging them up on to the wagon, then going to the barn to load them into hot hay lofts.

When I moved back to Southern Ohio, I worked in a factory and share an cheap second story apartment with a guy who worked there too. We went through the winter with no heat except for maybe three days the stove worked. No cook stove either. Adapt and function. Usually ran out of food by Wed night or mid-day Thurs. First stop after cashing our paychecks on Friday was the DQ. Small town, not a lot there. And it was walk to get where you were going.

When I moved back to Texas in 96 it was brutal. I'd gotten used to and liked the weather in interior Alaska and the Willamette Valley of Oregon. At first we didn't have A/C at all. I had come back to marry my HS sweetheart. She had three kids, one with severe autism, and only her to support them. I got a job as a photographer for the local paper and didn't make much either. The kids slept in the one bedroom house and she in I in a shed she and some friends had built. Yeah, it was freaking hot.

I did find that once I got into motorcycles again and went to that as my only transportation for a few years that I acclimated better and the heat was less troubling to me that when spending most of my time in a car with A/C. Reminds me. I need to get the bike on the road more before it gets fully hot full time. It's already broke 100F here already in early May.

Back before I went active Army I spent a few years in the reserves. My last "summer camp" was at North Fort Hood. We got to go out in late June to play in the field for a few hours at MOPP4. If I ever end up in an environment that requires being in MOPP4 as a way of life. Just shoot me.

I spent a year in the Sinai as permanent party at North Camp. Yes, I loved my window A/C unit in my room. However, I saw plenty of people, locals at El Arish and bedouins, who lived in that environment fulltime and functioned by working with the heat, not against it. The soldiers from the Fijian contingent would be out doing PT, running, and doing log drills in boots, fatigue pants, T-shirt and web gear. Those boys were FIT.

In other words, people can and have functioned in extreme environments for a lot longer than they haven't. As others have mentioned, stay hydrated, stay out of the sun as much as you can. Find shaded places with a breeze if you can. If it doesn't need done, don't do it. Also watch out if you are in places of high humidity. That can zap you. Or if you are used to a high humidity area and know when your body is telling you that you are overheating and go to a low humidity location be very aware. You won't get the same early warning signs as usual. I went from Fort Bragg, NC to Nordstrom AFB for Gallant Eagle 86. I was used to the humidity at Bragg and while the low humidity at San Bernadino was great, it was different. We were putting up GP mediums and doing other stuff and I got hit with the heat. Didn't see it coming because I wasn't getting the usual indicators.

Funny thing is, my heat injuries have happened at lower ambient temperatures and even on some overcast days. I've been zapped in the upper 80s and lower 90s with overcast, but high humidity. It's never been when it was 100 plus out. Maybe because I was more cautious and aware, or perhaps other factors. Just an observation. Just like hypothermia, you don't have to be at sub zero temps to get there.

If you have water available to spare wet some clothing or clothes and let them evaporate to cool you and others. Think in terms of what holds coolness and what acts as a cooling process. Remember, most caves have a constant year round temperature in the 50-60s. There are a few that have and require higher heat and humidity. The Caverns at Sonora being one. So think in terms of in the ground as cooling. No is the time to try out ideas and see how they work. Also, look at why you would need to relocate so far away.

Unfortunately, we have become dependent on air conditioning and central heating. Our houses are generally built to take full advantage of that and not for good air circulation to aid in cooling without. Really think about would it truly be life threatening, or just uncomfortable. Can you alter your routines and adjust, then deal with being uncomfortable, but able to stick it out? If you don't need to move, don't. Around the house and especially moving from the house. Trying to bug out in massive heat without a lot of careful consideration and planning can, pardon the pun, put you out of the frying pan and into the fire.
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Old 05-09-2020, 08:15 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Originally Posted by John Joseph View Post
The scenario: dangerous heat wave and the grid crashes. No AC or fans, maybe community cooling centers/swimming pools have auxiliary power, but maybe not.

What are you going to do? What if there are young children/elderly in your care?

Something similar happened to us years ago. We had to bug out but fortunately there was cooler weather 150 miles away on the coast.
What if 400 miles or more is what it takes to get out of the hot zone?

FWIW there were no accommodations available so we just camped out in the blissfully cool fog until arrangements could be made for the babies to stay with grandparents in another, cooler town. By that time the AC was working again.

My lesson learned: My camping kit is my survival kit.

Not talking about you. Talking about family you're responsible for.
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Old 05-09-2020, 08:32 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Originally Posted by John Joseph View Post
Not talking about you. Talking about family you're responsible for.
Young children will be fine.... they will not die, sitting in the shade and keeping hydrated.

The very elderly, whos bodies don't regulate heat as well, may be somewhat vulnerable- but they're also most likely very vulnerable to a bug out road trip. These are people that are in less than mediocre health to begin with.

Again, low workload, shade, hydration is a 99% solution for all but small population- and its still probably the best solution, even for the more vulnerable.

Unlike cold, which can kill you very quickly, even despite some efforts to protect yourself, our world does not generate unsurvivable high temperatures that will simply cook you, despite rudimentary efforts to mitigate the heat. Heat injuries are caused by human error- over exertion or dehydration- rather than simply the ambient temperature.
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  #21  
Old 05-09-2020, 12:36 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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Just for fun - https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/to...-BB13NV8D?ocid
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  #22  
Old 05-09-2020, 02:55 PM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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My gut reaction is that this is a "study" funded, bought and paid for by the leftist environmental wackos.....

95° wet bulb is 95° and 100% humidity- a short term event at best.

Experience has shown that a fit person can do heavy manual work in a hot, humid environment - 90°/90%. Sitting in the shade, doing nothing, is easy.... certainly survivable, if a bit uncomfortable.

In a dry, desert environment...? 120°, no physical work to do- all day long. It won't kill you.

Neither of the above environmental conditions will significantly raise core temp without some human intervention....
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I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. ~ John Adams
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2020, 06:01 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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This is probably more a question of planning to maintain one's comfortable environs than a question of survival planning.

Thousands of people lived in New Orleans, Houston, and similar places long before the invention of home air conditioning. And before availability of electricity service as well.

People had children in those days/those places and the elderly population in those places probably fared as well as the elderly population in most other places. As a footnote, my childhood Texas home had no A/C...I survived, as did most others.
Totally normal and par for the course. Not one relative, young or old, died due to heat.

But for modern comfort assurance planning, I suppose the main limitation is one's bank account. Otherwise, if no financial limitations, backup electricity generation and backup A/C is surely not too difficult to install.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 05-09-2020 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 05-09-2020, 09:39 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Been there and done that.

Offloading Abrams tanks all day in Dhahran. And later in Schwake and Shuaiba, during the gulf war. No shade. It was tough. I learned about the benefits of a Burnous headset at that time. I got some strange stares from the GIs though at times. 135 degrees Fahrenheit, with ten percent relative humidity is no joke.

I found that my magic potion was Orange juice mixed fifty fifty with straight water and lots of ice.
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Old 05-09-2020, 11:24 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is offline
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My gut reaction is that this is a "study" funded, bought and paid for by the leftist environmental wackos…
Probably, hence my "Just for fun" lead in. I've BTDTGTTS with 33+ years in the Army. You can do a lot more than you think if you are well conditioned and use good common sense. Don't try to be Superman. Pace yourself. Hydrate.
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