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  #26  
Old 02-13-2019, 08:58 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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jjfitch---So if it's a different object, say a nice telescope or bike, if unclaimed it won't become the finder's property?

That sucks.
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2019, 09:50 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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Not that I'm aware of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
jjfitch---So if it's a different object, say a nice telescope or bike, if unclaimed it won't become the finder's property?

That sucks.
Check with your jurisdiction. In the two examples above I think they have serial numbers.

As a deputy some of the most time consuming calls involve recording serial numbers of "found" property. Like seventeen cars and motorcycles behind the barn at a drug bust.

I have seen property sales by counties but I don't know the particulars.

Smiles,
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2019, 09:56 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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What I've always told my children : "If it doesn't belong to you, don't touch it."
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2019, 10:17 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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John Joseph-----

Are you suggesting that if I find a gun on the ground, I should NOT turn it in to the Police?

That I should just ignore it & keep walking?
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  #30  
Old 02-14-2019, 09:48 AM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
John Joseph-----

Are you suggesting that if I find a gun on the ground, I should NOT turn it in to the Police?

That I should just ignore it & keep walking?
It could be that the gun is evidence at a crime scene or perhaps tossed by a fleeing felon during a pursuit---this happens---sure report it to the police and if it is a hazard and you should secured it as best you can, if possible, without touching or moving it unless necessary ---such found near a school where children would find it
I'm not talking about the old top break you find in your late great uncle's steamer trunk here. Use your common sense.
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  #31  
Old 02-14-2019, 12:19 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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John Joseph-------- Follow my posts in this thread & you'll see that I have covered these points several times over.
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  #32  
Old 02-14-2019, 05:59 PM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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I found a 3' boa constrictor in the road once. Not weird at all....
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  #33  
Old 02-14-2019, 08:43 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I'd catch that snake, check the "Lost" ads, then sell it if unclaimed.
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  #34  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:08 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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Think about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
John Joseph-----

Are you suggesting that if I find a gun on the ground, I should NOT turn it in to the Police?

That I should just ignore it & keep walking?
I would not sweat it too much, about the handgun that is. Most everybody, including the juveniles of the city already have their own guns. Good intentions are one thing, reality is another.
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  #35  
Old 02-15-2019, 01:02 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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In regards to various hypotheticals, such as where found, under what circumstances found, rusted-out relics, something other than a firearm, etc., there's usually a place for common sense.

In regards to a government agency, including local PD, returning a working firearm to someone who was merely the "finder", I cannot conceive of any competent government official making such a decision. Think about the potential liability exposure if the "finder" ever did anything wrong with that firearm.

In today's legal climate, I cannot envision it making sense, from the local/state government's perspective, for a government agency to "give" a firearm to a "finder" of that firearm.

Perhaps incidentally, I think magazineman provided a good thread-starter here. +1911 magazineman.

Each of us who've participated in this thread or merely read through it have probably collected our thoughts about what we should do in such a scenario. And we'll likely make a sound decision should we ever find ourselves in such circumstances.
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Last edited by chrysanthemum; 02-15-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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  #36  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:28 PM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magazineman View Post
I'd catch that snake, check the "Lost" ads, then sell it if unclaimed.
My wife would beg to differ with your plan, in no uncertain terms.
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  #37  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:24 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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L.E. My wife would consider eating it. Where she's from (Laos) all critters great & small were on the menu. There's no eeeew factor involved. Snakes, eels, bugs, all fair game.
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  #38  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:30 AM
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
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If you're in California, the law requires you to turn it into law enforcement (assuming the value is over $100.00). Please refer to California Civil Code section 2080.1

If the law enforcement agency is unable to locate the owner, you are entitled to claim title to the property. Please refer to California Civil Code section 2080.3. Expect some resistance, few agencies have policies governing the release of found firearms, but the lack of an agency policy doesn't permit them to ignore the statute.

Even if the found firearm is valued at less than $100, you're still effectively required to turn it over to law enforcement, or return it to the owner. Penal Code section 485 defines the crime of "Theft of Found Property." You are guilty of this crime of you find property and fail to take "reasonable and just efforts" to return the property to is owner. Since California tracks firearms using the DOJ's Automated Firearms Systems (AFS), this would infer a requirement to contact law enforcement so that the AFS could be queried.

Last edited by RickD427; 02-18-2019 at 01:57 AM.
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  #39  
Old 02-17-2019, 11:44 AM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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The OP is specific to "found firearms".

Please show an example of a found firearm being turned over to the finder in CA!

As I recall in the western states I'm familiar with, firearms are the exception to the rule of finders claiming found property.

See post #21, change "found property" to "found firearm".

Regards,
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John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 02-17-2019 at 12:05 PM.
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  #40  
Old 02-17-2019, 02:29 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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I think RickD427 may have nailed it. Thanks, Rick. Btw, for the billionth time, I never, ever , had any question about whether to turn in a found gun. It's a given that I would do so.

jjfitch------- re: your suggestion to ask my local agency. C'mon Man! I cannot call the cops and ask "Hypothetically, If I found an unclaimed gun could I possibly become the legal owner?"

Can you imagine how THAT would go down?
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  #41  
Old 02-17-2019, 04:55 PM
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfitch View Post
The OP is specific to "found firearms".

Please show an example of a found firearm being turned over to the finder in CA!

As I recall in the western states I'm familiar with, firearms are the exception to the rule of finders claiming found property.

See post #21, change "found property" to "found firearm".

Regards,
A firearm is still an item of "property" as used in the statutes.

There is no informational reporting service that collects data on property returned under Civil Code 2080.3. I did not personally encounter any request for the return of a firearm during my time in LE service. But I know well from that service, that compliance with the statutes is required.

California law makes no special provision for found firearms. Civil Code section 2080.2 applies to found firearms, just as it does to any other item of property.

Last edited by RickD427; 02-18-2019 at 01:56 AM.
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  #42  
Old 02-17-2019, 05:30 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
A firearm is still an item of "property" as used in the statutes.

There is no informational reporting service that collects data on property returned under Civil Code 2080.2. I did not personally encounter any request for the return of a firearm during my time in LE service. But I know well from that service, that compliance with the statutes is required.

California law makes no special provision for found firearms. Civil Code section 2080.2 applies to found firearms, just as it does to any other item of property.
Apparently the jurisdiction where I worked did!

There are specific rules required by the DOJ that govern the release of handguns. Proof of ownership is one, proper registration with the state is another.

A"finder" does not qualify as ownership. Obviously the finder did not "register" the handgun.

Smiles,
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John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 02-17-2019 at 05:47 PM.
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  #43  
Old 02-17-2019, 05:33 PM
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfitch View Post
Apparently the jurisdiction where I worked did!

Smiles,
OK, cool.

What did your agency do with the firearm?, and more importantly, what did they use for their statutory authority?
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  #44  
Old 02-17-2019, 08:41 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
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CA DOJ requirement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
OK, cool.

What did your agency do with the firearm?, and more importantly, what did they use for their statutory authority?
The Sheriff followed the requirements in the DOJ mandate requiring specific steps for returning handguns.

Handguns that were not returned to the legal owner were either retained and used by the department or destroyed by a third party.

There is no provision to return handguns to the "finder"!

Google is your friend!"http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf"
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John, Retired LEO, CA POST Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Endmt., NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, Blue Lives Matter
Gun Control: Acquire target, align sights, press trigger, only after you have identified your target and what is beyond it and made the decision to shoot!

Last edited by jjfitch; 02-18-2019 at 10:27 AM.
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2019, 09:45 PM
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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One of the most accurate handguns I ever got to shoot was a K-38 kept in the Armorer's locker since it couldn't be sold.
Sad but true!
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  #46  
Old 02-18-2019, 01:55 AM
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfitch View Post
The Sheriff followed the requirements in the DOJ mandate requiring specific steps for returning handguns.

Handguns that were not returned to the legal owner were either retained and used by the department or destroyed by a third party.

There is no provision to return handguns to the "finder"!

Google is your friend!"http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf"
You're confusing the LEGR process contained in PC 33850 with the title transfer to a finder process contained in Civil Code 2080.3

Forget about the LEGR. That has nothing to do with this situation. The LEGR only works for a person who has title to a firearm and wishes to have it returned. Since the finder does not presently have title, that process doesn't apply here.

Civil Code section 2080.3 provides that title to the property shall vest in the finder after 90 days. Since the firearm is not being "returned" to the finder, it must be transferred to him/her.

There most certainly are provisions to return found handguns to the finder. Specifically Civil Code 2080.3 to transfer title and Penal Code sections 26500-28490 to transfer possession (basically requiring the services of an FFL).

There is no authority for a LE agency to destroy firearms that are "not returned to the legal owner." If you think that there is any such authority, please cite it. About the closest that you will find is section 34000 which allows the destruction of firearms that were court exhibits, unclaimed, or abandoned. A found firearm claimed by the finder under CC 2080.3 fits none of these categories.
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  #47  
Old 02-18-2019, 10:37 PM
magazineman magazineman is offline
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Thanks, Rick. I have printed this out and am keeping it. Because the chance of me finding a gun is not as remote as with most folks. I find a ton of stuff.

Nothing today, but a cellphone yesterday. And somebody's keys at the car show on Sat. I walked the parking lot pushing the key fob button. When I got to the car that "booped" I left it locked and my cell number. They called me shortly after.
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  #48  
Old 02-20-2019, 05:44 PM
wimpy wimpy is offline
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A friend bought a house and found a Smith and Wesson chiefs special, they turned it in to the police, it was checked out for any crime envolvement, found clean,returned to my friend. .this was in Dallas Texas in 2014 or 2013 . my son bought it from them.Mike
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  #49  
Old 02-26-2019, 04:01 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
A firearm is still an item of "property" as used in the statutes.

There is no informational reporting service that collects data on property returned under Civil Code 2080.3. I did not personally encounter any request for the return of a firearm during my time in LE service. But I know well from that service, that compliance with the statutes is required.

California law makes no special provision for found firearms. Civil Code section 2080.2 applies to found firearms, just as it does to any other item of property.
You're incorrect Rick. I challenge you to find an LE agency in California that will hand over a found firearm to the finder, regardless of the hundreds of penal/ civil codes you'd like to show them. Having personally made a dump run with over 600 firearms, to be incinerated, which included two Luger pistols (hey, we don't all get to pick our assignments), I can guarantee you, what you're describing doesn't happen.

I'm not an attorney, and my guess, based on your posts, is that you aren't either. If there was a legal issue with agencies and the destruction of found firearms, it would not be the industry standard. But maybe you know better than the DA's Office and County Counsel attorneys.

Sorry for the abrupt nature of my tone, but when I see "pocket lawyers" giving legal advice to folks on internet forums, I get a little frustrated. A simple phone call to County Counsel would easily answer your question, but instead it seems you prefer to share your google research as gospel. Have you considered the fact that LE agencies are not FFL holders, and could be charged with being an unlicensed dealer if they transferred a firearm to someone who was not the owner?

Quote:
Expect some resistance, few agencies have policies governing the release of found firearms, but the lack of an agency policy doesn't permit them to ignore the statute.
I'm confused by this comment. You seem to be implying that department policy can trump state law.
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Last edited by BoulderTroll; 02-26-2019 at 04:55 PM.
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  #50  
Old 02-26-2019, 05:35 PM
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderTroll View Post
You're incorrect Rick. I challenge you to find an LE agency in California that will hand over a found firearm to the finder, regardless of the hundreds of penal/ civil codes you'd like to show them. Having personally made a dump run with over 600 firearms, to be incinerated, which included two Luger pistols (hey, we don't all get to pick our assignments), I can guarantee you, what you're describing doesn't happen.

I'm not an attorney, and my guess, based on your posts, is that you aren't either. If there was a legal issue with agencies and the destruction of found firearms, it would not be the industry standard. But maybe you know better than the DA's Office and County Counsel attorneys.

Sorry for the abrupt nature of my tone, but when I see "pocket lawyers" giving legal advice to folks on internet forums, I get a little frustrated. A simple phone call to County Counsel would easily answer your question, but instead it seems you prefer to share your google research as gospel. Have you considered the fact that LE agencies are not FFL holders, and could be charged with being an unlicensed dealer if they transferred a firearm to someone who was not the owner?



I'm confused by this comment. You seem to be implying that department policy can trump state law.
Boulder Troll,

No "Pocket Lawyer" here. My background is close to 40 years service as an LEO and one of my final assignments was maintaining the operational polices of a large Sheriff's Department. I'm not a lawyer, but often worked with deputy county counsel, and special counsel performing oversight duties for the Board of Supervisors, That position required me to research the law, and to author policies that implemented the law.

One thing that my agency often learned the hard way, and where I saw other agencies learn the hard way, is that the way "we always did things" didn't make the process lawful. The lesson was often learned in civil court and resulted in the payment of damages.

I'm not making any inference that agency policy can trump state law. Actually, it's very much the opposite. State law prevails over policy. In this case, the state law provides that the finder is entitle to take title to found property if the owner cannot be found.

Rather than call names, if you believe that I've made statements in error, please cite the statute(s) or published case law, showing that to be so. I was good enough to publish the statutes supporting my view and I'd be appreciative if you would do the same.

Last edited by RickD427; 02-26-2019 at 05:42 PM.
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