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  #1  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:23 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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1911 trainer for dry fire pratice

No limited goal like improve aim or manage recoil or anything. Just want to dry fire a 1911 and have it function like a 1911.

Can be mechanical. Can be digital. Can be something I insert into my 1911. Can be a replacement slide. Can be a complete training tool as long as it mimics a 1911 realistically and completely (sans the, ya know, live rounds).

I found the coolfire and laser ammo - anyone have experience with these?

Anyone have a better recommendation?
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2019, 08:45 PM
Skeet6 Skeet6 is offline
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Dry fire your 1911. Nothing else needed...
There, that was easy!
Mike B
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  #3  
Old 01-21-2019, 07:31 AM
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Sendit, I just went through the same thing over the last 3 weeks or so in this thread...

SIRT-laser gun's and CO2 (bb) guns with laser add on seem to be the 2 best options out there. The main difference btwn the two is that the CO2 gun adds a little recoil...I wanted to get both, but in NJ a BB gun is considered a firarm and I need to get a permit first (amazingly lol), so I went with SIRT for now.

There is a lot of detail in this thread, start with my last post yesterday (post #78) where you get a summary of how the SIRT adds significant value to your existing Dry-Fire routine. Then dig into the detail as you see fit.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=980978

We didn't discuss the 2 other options you show in the o.p., so I'd be interesting to see what you learn about them. They seem to have potential.
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2019, 03:29 AM
HoraceSwaby HoraceSwaby is online now
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I have a SIRT but never use it. I'd rather just dry fire a real gun. The laser hurts more than it helps.
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2019, 06:23 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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New Jersey laws on BB/pellet pistols......

It seems the state of NJ lawmakers are creating their own definition of what constitutes a "firearm." By definition, a firearm is a weapon that uses a lead or other projectile to leave a barrel under the explosive force of gunpowder.....

Calling a BB/pellet pistol a firearm is not, by definition, a "firearm" so the lawmakers are simply restricting the rights of law abiding people to use pellet pistols for target shooting and/or recreational purposes....

IMHO, having to get a permit to purchase a pellet pistol in NJ is totally ludicrous, since most every state in the USA other than NJ, do not consider a pellet pistol a firearm......
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2019, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
It seems the state of NJ lawmakers are creating their own definition of what constitutes a "firearm." By definition, a firearm is a weapon that uses a lead or other projectile to leave a barrel under the explosive force of gunpowder.....

Calling a BB/pellet pistol a firearm is not, by definition, a "firearm" so the lawmakers are simply restricting the rights of law abiding people to use pellet pistols for target shooting and/or recreational purposes....

IMHO, having to get a permit to purchase a pellet pistol in NJ is totally ludicrous, since most every state in the USA other than NJ, do not consider a pellet pistol a firearm......
I'm with you Brother...I gave up trying to apply even the slightest level of logic and rational thinking to the Lefty-Mind quite a while ago. They just don't think in those terms...But we digress.
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:49 AM
smokey-seven smokey-seven is offline
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Use a 5 " pencil with a good eraser. Empty and clear the 45, insert pencil in the barrel, cock, aim and dry fire after putting up a small target 2 to 3 inches in front of the barrel. Determine the target diameter by aiming at a dot on a piece of paper mounted to a soft board. The pencil will be struck by the firing pin and emerge below the line of aim, putting a dot on the paper. Tip the muzzle up, pencil will return to firing position, recock and trigger squeeze.

When you have the distance between point of impact and aim point, photo copy a standard pistol target and reduce the size until you have a workable practice target In my poor memory about an inch or less. It is going to be the distance from the sights to the pencil tip in the barrel. duplicate 2 targets immediately above each other and then copy / paste until you have an 8x11 paper to print out a bunch.

The eraser absorbs some of the firing pin hit so you are good to go with this method.
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  #8  
Old 01-23-2019, 12:22 AM
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Yes, I do

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendit2012 View Post
No limited goal like improve aim or manage recoil or anything. Just want to dry fire a 1911 and have it function like a 1911.

Can be mechanical. Can be digital. Can be something I insert into my 1911. Can be a replacement slide. Can be a complete training tool as long as it mimics a 1911 realistically and completely (sans the, ya know, live rounds).

I found the coolfire and laser ammo - anyone have experience with these?
...
Yes, CoolFire. Stopped across from the CoolFire booth at the ‘18 NRA Annual Meeting exposition and noticed a man demonstrating a CO2-powered, 1911-pattern, L.A.S.E.R. blaster. It was what I’d been seeking for years: bought one right there. Then in Fall ‘18 participated in a study on training effectiveness using CoolFire and got to see how convenient it could be with a better charging station. So far, I’m still using 90g cans, available locally or mail-order - few places in town anymore to re-charge 20oz CO2, perforce using the 90g cans. When I was doing paintball, you could get 20oz tanks charged at any sporting goodss store: apparently less so now. Getting set up to charge 20oz tanks at home.

Charged from a 90g CO2 can, CoolFire will run a government model 7 - 10 shots; charged from a 20oz tank, 15 - 20 shots. The optionally used L.A.S.E.R. can be zero’ed such that, a good let-off from a good sight picture, makes a good hit. Paster-sized targets from anywhere in my office (<=6m) for precision shooting. Since it’s using all the controls of your firearm, used as normal, it makes for practice at home that doesn’t repeat counter-effective motions. CoolFire allows useful practice of target transitions etc. Without the L.A.S.E.R. mounted, on a government model, you can practice draw and multi-shot drills.
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  #9  
Old 01-23-2019, 12:50 AM
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Oh!

After looking at LaserAmmo, realized I’d done something pretty similar to that as well: using a recoil actuated L.A.S.E.R. with AirSoft guns. The L.A.S.E.R. wasn’t as sensitive nor screw-in mounted as is the case with CoolFire: so it didn’t work nearly as well. And batteries were very short-lived. But a L.A.S.E.R. as well mounted and sensitive as the CoolFire L.A.S.E.R. with an AirSoft would be a good 2nd choice ... ah but it costs about the same as CoolFire. So no regrets going with CoolFire.
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:12 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skeet6 View Post
Dry fire your 1911. Nothing else needed...
There, that was easy!
Mike B
LOL.

I meant ...

I want the 1911 manual of arms, to see where a round would hit, and not have to manually rack the slide between trigger pulls. But thanks for the humor break
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  #11  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:14 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Sendit, I just went through the same thing over the last 3 weeks or so in this thread...

SIRT-laser gun's and CO2 (bb) guns with laser add on seem to be the 2 best options out there. The main difference btwn the two is that the CO2 gun adds a little recoil...I wanted to get both, but in NJ a BB gun is considered a firarm and I need to get a permit first (amazingly lol), so I went with SIRT for now.

There is a lot of detail in this thread, start with my last post yesterday (post #78) where you get a summary of how the SIRT adds significant value to your existing Dry-Fire routine. Then dig into the detail as you see fit.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=980978

We didn't discuss the 2 other options you show in the o.p., so I'd be interesting to see what you learn about them. They seem to have potential.
Thanks! Will review then circle back
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:15 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by HoraceSwaby View Post
I have a SIRT but never use it. I'd rather just dry fire a real gun. The laser hurts more than it helps.
Opinion noted. Thanks.
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  #13  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:16 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
It seems the state of NJ lawmakers are creating their own definition of what constitutes a "firearm." By definition, a firearm is a weapon that uses a lead or other projectile to leave a barrel under the explosive force of gunpowder.....

Calling a BB/pellet pistol a firearm is not, by definition, a "firearm" so the lawmakers are simply restricting the rights of law abiding people to use pellet pistols for target shooting and/or recreational purposes....

IMHO, having to get a permit to purchase a pellet pistol in NJ is totally ludicrous, since most every state in the USA other than NJ, do not consider a pellet pistol a firearm......
Um, OK ...

You are a FL resident talking about NJ laws in a thread about training pistols - can you connect the dots for me?
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  #14  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:18 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by smokey-seven View Post
Use a 5 " pencil with a good eraser. Empty and clear the 45, insert pencil in the barrel, cock, aim and dry fire after putting up a small target 2 to 3 inches in front of the barrel. Determine the target diameter by aiming at a dot on a piece of paper mounted to a soft board. The pencil will be struck by the firing pin and emerge below the line of aim, putting a dot on the paper. Tip the muzzle up, pencil will return to firing position, recock and trigger squeeze.

When you have the distance between point of impact and aim point, photo copy a standard pistol target and reduce the size until you have a workable practice target In my poor memory about an inch or less. It is going to be the distance from the sights to the pencil tip in the barrel. duplicate 2 targets immediately above each other and then copy / paste until you have an 8x11 paper to print out a bunch.

The eraser absorbs some of the firing pin hit so you are good to go with this method.
Cool idea! Not a fit for my (less than clearly articulated OP) need, but cool way to work on trigger pull.
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  #15  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:42 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by tgt_usa View Post
Yes, CoolFire. Stopped across from the CoolFire booth at the ‘18 NRA Annual Meeting exposition and noticed a man demonstrating a CO2-powered, 1911-pattern, L.A.S.E.R. blaster. It was what I’d been seeking for years: bought one right there. Then in Fall ‘18 participated in a study on training effectiveness using CoolFire and got to see how convenient it could be with a better charging station. So far, I’m still using 90g cans, available locally or mail-order - few places in town anymore to re-charge 20oz CO2, perforce using the 90g cans. When I was doing paintball, you could get 20oz tanks charged at any sporting goodss store: apparently less so now. Getting set up to charge 20oz tanks at home.

Charged from a 90g CO2 can, CoolFire will run a government model 7 - 10 shots; charged from a 20oz tank, 15 - 20 shots. The optionally used L.A.S.E.R. can be zero’ed such that, a good let-off from a good sight picture, makes a good hit. Paster-sized targets from anywhere in my office (<=6m) for precision shooting. Since it’s using all the controls of your firearm, used as normal, it makes for practice at home that doesn’t repeat counter-effective motions. CoolFire allows useful practice of target transitions etc. Without the L.A.S.E.R. mounted, on a government model, you can practice draw and multi-shot drills.
BOOM - experience with something I asked about!! Thanks.

Your last line above is "...you can practice draw and multi-shot drills." So the 1911 recoil barrel replaces my barrel and causes the action to cycle, right? Assuming yes, if I have a custom 1911 (think Ed Brown) which is 'hand tuned' would you recommend buying a cheapo 1911 for the coolfire?
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:22 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by combat auto View Post
Sendit, I just went through the same thing over the last 3 weeks or so in this thread...

SIRT-laser gun's and CO2 (bb) guns with laser add on seem to be the 2 best options out there. The main difference btwn the two is that the CO2 gun adds a little recoil...I wanted to get both, but in NJ a BB gun is considered a firarm and I need to get a permit first (amazingly lol), so I went with SIRT for now.

There is a lot of detail in this thread, start with my last post yesterday (post #78) where you get a summary of how the SIRT adds significant value to your existing Dry-Fire routine. Then dig into the detail as you see fit.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=980978

We didn't discuss the 2 other options you show in the o.p., so I'd be interesting to see what you learn about them. They seem to have potential.
@CA - thx for the link. I'm leaning toward picking up a cheap 1911 and replacing the slide internals with the coolfire.

What are your thoughts now that you've used the SIRT a bit?
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  #17  
Old 01-24-2019, 04:54 PM
sendit2012 sendit2012 is offline
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Originally Posted by tgt_usa View Post
Yes, CoolFire. Stopped across from the CoolFire booth at the ‘18 NRA Annual Meeting exposition and noticed a man demonstrating a CO2-powered, 1911-pattern, L.A.S.E.R. blaster. It was what I’d been seeking for years: bought one right there. Then in Fall ‘18 participated in a study on training effectiveness using CoolFire and got to see how convenient it could be with a better charging station. So far, I’m still using 90g cans, available locally or mail-order - few places in town anymore to re-charge 20oz CO2, perforce using the 90g cans. When I was doing paintball, you could get 20oz tanks charged at any sporting goodss store: apparently less so now. Getting set up to charge 20oz tanks at home.

Charged from a 90g CO2 can, CoolFire will run a government model 7 - 10 shots; charged from a 20oz tank, 15 - 20 shots. The optionally used L.A.S.E.R. can be zero’ed such that, a good let-off from a good sight picture, makes a good hit. Paster-sized targets from anywhere in my office (<=6m) for precision shooting. Since it’s using all the controls of your firearm, used as normal, it makes for practice at home that doesn’t repeat counter-effective motions. CoolFire allows useful practice of target transitions etc. Without the L.A.S.E.R. mounted, on a government model, you can practice draw and multi-shot drills.
Another follow-up Q on the gas refill piece.

I understand that different capacity tanks enable a different number of trigger pulls. I'm unclear if the coolfire needs to be disassembled between tank swap unless you buy their components to refill the tank while in the weapon?

Does a 'large capacity tank' refer to the tank inside the coolfire or the supply tank doing the refilling?

I think your cool setup to refill at home includes managing differing tank pressures(????) and if so I prefer to find a way to get a giant supply tank at the same pressure - is this possible?

I scuba so I understand Boyles law; but I know nothing about paintball and/or these co2 systems - where do I go for 'CO2 101 training'?

ETA: if I can use something like this then each 'round' is approx $0.075 right?

Last edited by sendit2012; 01-24-2019 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Additional info
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  #18  
Old 01-24-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sendit2012 View Post
@CA - thx for the link. I'm leaning toward picking up a cheap 1911 and replacing the slide internals with the coolfire.

What are your thoughts now that you've used the SIRT a bit?
Sendit, It is great. I am surprised how much value it adds, exceeding my expectations by a bit. It just lets you do things which can't be done with the real gun alone in dry fire like strings of fire without having to manually cock (THIS ALONE is worth the $$$ if one is serious about dry fire). Having to cock to pull the trigger again is just unrealistic.

I'm not saying it is the only way to do this (ie there are other options as you are looking at), but they really do add value.

The other thing worth the price of admission alone is the ability to see exactly where you hit the target. Without the laser, one is calling the shot and basically estimating where they hit. Just like targets don't "lie" at the range, neither does the laser during dry-fire.

I also like the fact that you don't have to go through the safety process before using, so it is more convenient. One thing I like to do is as soon as I wake up in the AM from time to time, grab the SIRT and go through a HD simulation and see how I do stone-cold!

Other item's of value, you can set the trigger with the weight you like. Right now I have it at 5#10Oz, this is way above any of my normal guns which range from 3#'s to 4#'s. The heavier trigger forces you to make sure all the fundamentals of grabbing and holding the gun during the trigger-press are perfect. So in essence, you are training to a higher lever than you will need at the range or SD using your real guns.

Like the mag change capability also, rather drop the SIRT mag on the floor than my regular mags (granted one can have an old set of regular mags too, but SIRT makes it easy).

So after a few weeks, my new routine is to Dry-Fire Mondays first with the SIRT (all the items mentioned above especially strings of fire), then my normal routine with one or two of my real guns. My normal routine, after going through all the safety steps, is slow fire with a dime on the front sight, and quick fire from a holster. 10 or more of each on various "target" sizes and distances, and strings of fire with the draw from holster segment.

And now I added a SIRT only training day on Wednesday...So I am doing all the dry-fire I use to do with my regular guns, but added two SIRT days/week.

The SIRT is a lot of fun and kicks up home dry-fire substantially.

One more thing, I think some people have a concern with the laser (and this would apply to any laser implementation) because they believe it ruin's their front sight focus. The way to deal with this is to realize it could happen, but once understood, you learn very quickly to train your eye to maintain Front sight focus (despite the laser) and you will see the laser - just like the target - slightly out of focus. And you know you nailed the shot when the green laser can only be partially observed directly behind the F-sight. Again, this is adding value to your dry fire making your front-sight focus even stronger than it was before.

C.A.
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Last edited by combat auto; 01-24-2019 at 05:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-24-2019, 11:53 PM
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To your questions

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Originally Posted by sendit2012 View Post
BOOM - experience with something I asked about!! Thanks.
You’re welcome.

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Originally Posted by sendit2012 View Post
Your last line above is "...you can practice draw and multi-shot drills." So the 1911 recoil barrel replaces my barrel and causes the action to cycle, right?
Right, the CoolFire CO2 tank has external dimensions of the bbl of the host gun, and replaces the bbl for conversion to L.A.S.E.R. / CO2 caliber. And there’s a reduced resistance recoil spring for it as well. The host gun trigger uses the CO2 pressure to cycle the action: voila’. The optional L.A.S.E.R. screws into the CO2 tank and has set-screws to zero the L.A.S.E.R. to the sights. The L.A.S.E.R. can be made as perfectly sighted as you’re willing to patiently chase to PoI. Ah! The reason I specified dismounting the L.A.S.E.R. and specified a government model for draws is that the CO2 tank is very nearly the same length as a government bbl; the L.A.S.E.R. adds ~3/4”. With the L.A.S.E.R. on, or using a Commander slide, you’d be practicing to overdraw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendit2012 View Post
Assuming yes, if I have a custom 1911 (think Ed Brown) which is 'hand tuned' would you recommend buying a cheapo 1911 for the coolfire?
Something like that - assuming that you want a dedicated frame for it. What I did was use a semi-collectible, already on hand, that had a nice enough trigger. But my best triggers are on guns from which I shoot Pb: so I may move the CoolFire to something such as an IDPA competition gun and swap bbls as needed.
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:29 AM
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Ah ... filling ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendit2012 View Post
Another follow-up Q on the gas refill piece.

I understand that different capacity tanks enable a different number of trigger pulls. I'm unclear if the coolfire needs to be disassembled between tank swap unless you buy their components to refill the tank while in the weapon?

Does a 'large capacity tank' refer to the tank inside the coolfire or the supply tank doing the refilling?

I think your cool setup to refill at home includes managing differing tank pressures(????) and if so I prefer to find a way to get a giant supply tank at the same pressure - is this possible?

I scuba so I understand Boyles law; but I know nothing about paintball and/or these co2 systems - where do I go for 'CO2 101 training'?

ETA: if I can use something like this then each 'round' is approx $0.075 right?
CoolFire does offer a longer in-gun tank: I haven’t tried it. But during the study, I did meet the inventor and have high confidence in his description of his inventions. However, I’m more concerned with maintaining all external dimensions than with reducing recharges. So I expect to stick with the bbl-sized tank in the gun.

The L.A.S.E.R. covers the fill-nozzle of the standard tank. CoolFire offers an easy-fill adapter which allows filling without dismounting the L.A.S.E.R. -That- extra, I may buy. Also considering the infra-red L.A.S.E.R. to maintain computer scoring but not see the dot: OtoH, the L.A.S.E.R. is analogous to a Pb splat on steel; “don’t look at that, follow your plan for the stage”.

Yes, when I bought gear to fill 20oz [paintball] tanks at home, that requires a regulator, valves and H.P. hose. What caught me unprepared was the safety regimen for using H.P. CO2. Still thinking that through; but moved my big tanks from office to a spot in the shop where they cannot fall over, break off the valve and transform into an entirely unguided, but very fast hard and heavy rocket. Obviously, I’ve internalized the safety issues: dont want to internalize a 10lb CO2 tank. #8- O. Don’t know about using a larger tank at 20oz-tank pressure. It’s non-conventional and cannot believe it would work. The CO2 is partially in liquid state, so you’re both pouring liquid CO2 and equalizing gas pressure. From the 90g or 20oz tanks, these are familiar operations. Not much different from charging green-gas AirSoft guns/magazines. The good folks at a brewers’ supply shop fitted me out and pointed me at training web-sites. But after understanding the safety regimen, I’d like some face-to-face training myself.

12g CO2 cartridges are a no-go. But the cost is probably about right ... thinking ... oh no, at $.075 I -think- you’d be paying too much. 90g tanks @ ~$7 and more than 100 shots. But if I can get my 10lb tank charging, there’s probably ~1,000,000rds of CO2 in my arsenal.
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  #21  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:59 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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I like a green gas airsoft , not a bb version but the white plastic pellets for draw and fire training as you can get blow back version for multiple shots . You can hang blanket indoors with a paper target on it and shoot away and control the pellets by just rolling up the bottom to catch them .
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:27 PM
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Green-gas

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Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
I like a green gas airsoft , not a bb version but the white plastic pellets for draw and fire training as you can get blow back version for multiple shots . You can hang blanket indoors with a paper target on it and shoot away and control the pellets by just rolling up the bottom to catch them .
Those green-gas AirSofts do make for very good practice. My WE (mais oui!) guns are accurate enough in still air to kill wasps - we are invaded every Autumn ...
j -;
... and my wife *asks me to kill them* ...
;-j
... but complains about finding the [plastic] AirSoft BBs even though I count the shots and find most of them.
j -;
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2019, 02:33 PM
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tgt_usa tgt_usa is offline
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Clarification

Using a 90g can, over a few experiments, I was able to get 7 - 9 -vigorous- cycles from a single charge; but when I kept activating the trigger, it cycled 21 - 29 times. The slide was barely more than cocking the hammer after about 10 - 12 cycles. My drills are mostly 5-shot; and, just as I generally load a fresh magazine, I’ve mostly been charging @5rds. Memory was that the 90g charged about the same, only a little better than a conventional M1911 magazine. It’s actually quite a bit better. Shouldn’t have responded just from memory.

So a 90g can would be usable for more shots than a M1911 magazine ... about two mags worth ... three if you’re not very particular. And a kit includes 2 examples of a do-hickey that prevents slide lock; so you can practice reload drills; swapping out-&-in, mags that are non-functional in L.A.S.E.R.-blaster mode.
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2019, 04:01 PM
Skeet6 Skeet6 is offline
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Location: Pike County, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendit2012 View Post
LOL.

I meant ...

I want the 1911 manual of arms, to see where a round would hit, and not have to manually rack the slide between trigger pulls. But thanks for the humor break
No humor meant. Bullseye competitors, (and Highpower rifle competitors) dry fire constantly. If you are watching your front sight as you should be (hard focus) you'll know exactly where the shot would have landed.
I'd venture to say I've got 50 "rounds" of dry fire to every 1 of live fire.

Mike B

PS: if you NEED to see results on target, Daisy 717 in the basement or garage.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2019, 05:00 PM
1970MP 1970MP is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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I've been using LaserAmmo for over a year, now. I use this with LaserLyte targets. It is a real step forward in accuracy/stability feedback. Since the 1911 is a single action, I use the LaserLyte for multiple engagement practice, moving, etc. I downloaded an android timer app, "Dry Practice Drill," that is very useful, as well. LaserLyte is cool, but IMHO nothing beats practicing with your primary carry.

Last edited by 1970MP; 01-26-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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