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  #1  
Old 03-27-2017, 01:45 PM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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carrying your backup gun

I have always carried a backup gun when in uniform.

Now that the new external vests are saving our backs and allowing us to carry our equipment off our waists and lower back, I will lose the method of carrying my backup gun. I carry it under my uniform shirt.

I have tried every ankle holster in the past and that is not an option. I lost a lot of five shot smiths (temporarily) when running after people. I know that with age comes the wisdom of not chasing people but I still am not going to use an ankle holster.

The backup pistol is a three inch 1911 so pocket carry is not an option.

I want my magazines on my belt to be able to fit my backup so going to a small plastic pistol is not an option. I carry a five inch 1911 with ten round CMC magazines available.

So short of someone having a new idea I am left with the traditional uniform shirt vest carry.

Thoughts or new ideas?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 03-27-2017, 08:34 PM
Chowser Chowser is offline
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We just started allowing external carriers. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but I plan on having my tailor sew in something on the offside on the inside of the carrier so I can put some type of soft retention holster to hold my backup.
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2017, 09:24 PM
Ipacka1911 Ipacka1911 is offline
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I know several of our guys started running the outer carrier and I believe it is Blauer that the left and right side pockets are actually cut to have a gun go in them. I know two guys that have diffeeent versions. One has small zippers and one has Velcro. Most guys are carrying shields and Glock 43s. I have not tried to fit a 1911 in one yet. I carry the same way with a 3" in a shoulder holster under my uniform shirt. They seem to like them well enough, I just haven't spent the money yet.
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2017, 11:24 PM
That Guy That Guy is offline
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We have local vendors who make our externals and we can customize them to however we'd like. My agency has allowed them for at least 20 years and most do wear them. That said the vest panel insert is through the center which is secured by a zipper. Most carry their back ups inside and have had velcro sewn in so that a holster can attach. Some still carry in an ankle holster. For me I've carried a variety of back ups over the years including a commander, G30, and a J-frame. I tend to lean on the j-frame due to weight and ease of use if I ever need it.
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  #5  
Old 03-28-2017, 06:55 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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The pocket sewn into the inside of the vest did occur to me. I am concerned with the possibility of an impact (falling on it or some other disaster) and it causing trauma to my rib cage. Having the pistol on the outside would be much better. Kind of like when we figured out that carrying cuffs on the middle of the back was a bad idea.

Thank you for the responses and I may be stuck with the pocket unless someone else has another thought.

Be safe.
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  #6  
Old 03-28-2017, 06:40 PM
Che Che is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRM813 View Post
I have always carried a backup gun when in uniform. I did too for 25 years

Now that the new external vests are saving our backs and allowing us to carry our equipment off our waists and lower back, I will lose the method of carrying my backup gun. I carry it under my uniform shirt. I did in 1984

I have tried every ankle holster in the past and that is not an option. I lost a lot of five shot smiths (temporarily) when running after people. I know that with age comes the wisdom of not chasing people but I still am not going to use an ankle holster. I did 1985-1989

The backup pistol is a three inch 1911 so pocket carry is not an option. carry a 2" revolver, I did 1990-2005


Thoughts or new ideas?
Go with a S&W revolver in a Mika holster for your BUG. Everyone has an ideal of the "scenario" they want to deploy the BUG. In real life you will likely be rolling on the ground and will need to make a 'contact' shot. Autoloaders tend to get fouled up on that shot but not revolvers.

Last edited by Che; 03-28-2017 at 06:44 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2017, 03:58 AM
Fazer386 Fazer386 is offline
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I agree with Che

The smallest 1911 is not a wise choice. During my career I've seen small semi-autos in CQB fights where the 1st round fired then malfunctioned. This was for all sides - Officers, civilians and bad guys.

Che spells it out - Revolver. You will be on the ground fighting for your life trying to get one hand free. A semi-auto may be a single shot. Revolver for simple reliability.

Vests are the new game with challenges. Convert pant/cargo pockets into holsters? Hide fixed blades high and low accessible by both hands.

Once you think you got it, gear up and apply your skills - Ground Fighting. Practice drawing your back-up on the ground fighting. The first time should not be your first time. Know how to get your gun while fighting.
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:42 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is online now
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A few suggestions:

1. Switch to a pocket-carry weapon like a S&W M36/60 or a Sig P938, and carry it in a pocket holster.

2. Sew a holster on the inside of your vest.

3. Have a leather smith make you up a covert holster for your gunbelt that looks like a first aid kit. Think Sneaky Pete-style.

4. Substitute a one-handed knife for the gun (something I don't recommend, but it is an option).

5. If your exterior vest has pockets on the front, setup one for a small handgun.
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2017, 08:00 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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Thank you for the well thought out comments. I will take them to heart. Not sure what I am going to do but like most things in life, it is a compromise (like being married).

Be safe out there.
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:55 AM
redsand redsand is offline
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I don't know how you guys do what you do with all the gear and vest, add to that hot weather.
Thanks for your service.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2017, 04:01 PM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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redsand.

As I have said many times it is am honor to serve hard working law abiding people who have paid me well to do a job I love. I have had many wonderful experiences. I have jumped out of airplanes, rappelled out of buildings, scuba dove in electrical damns and abandoned missile silos. I regularly shoot a top of the line machine gun with free ammo. All on your tax dollars.

It is a privilege to serve.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2017, 06:15 PM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is online now
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Back up gun....

When I was a Deputy Sheriff, I carried a Kel-Tec PF-9 (9mm) with 8 rounds of +P JHP 9mm ammo in the upper pocket of my kevlar vest. I thoroughly tested the Kel Tec for reliability with JHP ammo, and it was extremely reliable. I got a LE discount when I purchased the gun, and paid $256.00 out the door. I also smoothed/polished the trigger parts. I had to qualify with the small and light weapon, and my instructor was surprised I was able to get good COM hits at 7 yds in a group...! Our department only allowed "double action only" pistols, and my primary weapon was a Glock G-21 (.45acp) with two spare 14 round mags. If the department where I worked had allowed 1911 style handguns, I would have carried my STI Eagle .40 caliber, with a flush fit 126mm 14 round mag, and two spare 140mm mags that hold 17 rounds each......

I didn't care that the Kel Tec was not the same caliber as my primary weapon. I wanted something that held more than 5 shots, and a +P 9mm was my minimal acceptable caliber. I never had to use it, but it was not difficult to access if needed, since I could reach down the neckline of my uniform to access the gun.

If some people have a bias against Kel-Tec, Ruger copied their design with the LC-9....so the LC-9 might be a good choice as well.....

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 04-04-2017 at 06:49 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-06-2017, 11:08 PM
gunner284 gunner284 is offline
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I always carried my LCP in the front pocket of my vest. With external carriers that won't work though. I'll have to find a new method when I go back to uniform patrol.
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2017, 06:18 PM
Trog Trog is offline
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If you check with J.G. Uniforms in Chicago they make their own outside vest carriers. They last as long as your vest will and they can customize how you want your pockets. They have at least two different options for carrying a back up gun that I know of.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2017, 02:42 AM
MetalGear MetalGear is offline
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Would never carry a sub 4.5 inch barrel 1911, if you have another full size 1911 why not carry both open on your rig?

Even with the 3 incher you could also carry it on the rig.
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2017, 09:15 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGear View Post
Would never carry a sub 4.5 inch barrel 1911, if you have another full size 1911 why not carry both open on your rig?

Even with the 3 incher you could also carry it on the rig.
Most law enforcement agencies have policies that prohibit a backup pistol from being visible. Ours is not an exception to this and we can have only one pistol in view. That leaves the issue of what to carry as a backup and where to carry it hidden.

The other constraint that I did not mention in the beginning is we can only carry pistols with agency ammo. That means 9mm, 40s&w, .45. On or off duty.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2017, 11:21 AM
MetalGear MetalGear is offline
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Sir, do you have any other pistols?

If you really want to have the piece accesible and share mags you could TRY a good ankle rig again. The Galco Ankle Glove is the king in that area.

The ankle rig also has a good use for a car gun or when down on the ground. You can bring the gun/foot to yourself.
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2017, 12:44 PM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGear View Post
Sir, do you have any other pistols?

If you really want to have the piece accesible and share mags you could TRY a good ankle rig again. The Galco Ankle Glove is the king in that area.

The ankle rig also has a good use for a car gun or when down on the ground. You can bring the gun/foot to yourself.
I ordered a Galco last Friday, we will see. Thanks.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2017, 05:48 PM
MetalGear MetalGear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRM813 View Post
I ordered a Galco last Friday, we will see. Thanks.
Please give us your feedback. Also if possible, could you post your duty gear? A pic or 2 would suffice.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:00 PM
maxjames2 maxjames2 is offline
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Regarding pants pockets... I’ve used that for decades. I would have a seamstress add about one inch to the original pocket. It was suggested to me that I slit the sea. On the outside leg below the pocket an reset that adding a Velcro tab to hold the pocket closed?. My Para Ord P-12 fits that way, though I carry a 640 there.
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  #21  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:19 PM
1985CUCV 1985CUCV is offline
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I used a Mika holster for many years till I went to an external carrier. Now I carry a Shield 45 in a BORAII in my support side cargo pocket.


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  #22  
Old 10-29-2017, 08:56 PM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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I solved all that by taking the promotion that I have avoided for many years.

I now supervise most of the time from a desk. I escape to the street when I can to fill in for the first line supervisors that cannot get a day off if I do not come out. I carry my backup under my shirt like I have in the past. The external vest carrier is a great tool but the infrequent shifts in a squad allow me to put mine in the closet and wear my equipment as I always have.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:20 PM
Neven Neven is offline
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This is the carrier our K9 guys use it has a built in pocket/holster for a backup. Really nicely built and of course you customize it with pockets how you want them.
http://www.balcouniform.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1208299
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:51 PM
Deputy25 Deputy25 is offline
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Glock 33 backup rides in a Desantis pocket holster in support side cargo pocket.
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2019, 01:45 AM
TEXMEX TEXMEX is offline
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How about a Double Tap. I have one. Fits about anywhere. Could be reloaded from your 1911 magazines. Simple double action. Someone tries to grab your duty weapon, pull it out with your off hand, stick it in their face and pull the trigger. It is not much fun to shoot, but it sure is not much fun to be shot with.

Last edited by TEXMEX; 06-21-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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