A Photo Essay of the National Match .45 1911s - Page 2 - 1911Forum
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  #26  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:14 PM
R DiFlorio R DiFlorio is offline
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Very nicely DONE great photos of OUTSTANDING pistols with information Much Appreciated
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  #27  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:28 PM
DK1957 DK1957 is offline
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Great article and pictures! Always wanted a Gold Cup and finally bought a new Gold Cup Trophy recently. The new ones are available in blue as well as stainless, by the way. While I love the pistol, I do wish they still put the highly polished blue finish on them the way they use to.
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  #28  
Old 10-13-2012, 07:40 PM
beetledude beetledude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK1957 View Post
Great article and pictures! Always wanted a Gold Cup and finally bought a new Gold Cup Trophy recently. The new ones are available in blue as well as stainless, by the way. While I love the pistol, I do wish they still put the highly polished blue finish on them the way they use to.
From 1997 to about 2011, the Gold Cup Trophy came in both Stainless and Blue. In fact it was a little confusing because the blue version came with the flat top, while the stainless had the round top (except for a few early stainless which also had a flat top).

However in late 2011 when they re-introduced the Series 80 Gold Cup National Match in Blue, they eliminated the Gold Cup Trophy in Blue. The way the current catalog is set up, the Gold Cup Trophy only comes in Stainless while hte Gold Cup National Match only comes in blue.

Your store or distributor probably had some old stock of the blued Gold Cup Trophy.

Confusing products lines are alive and well at Colt
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  #29  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:04 PM
Piexcel Piexcel is offline
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Very informative post. Had so much fun reading it! Thank you!
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  #30  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:42 PM
DK1957 DK1957 is offline
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Thanks for all the info.
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  #31  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:50 PM
Piexcel Piexcel is offline
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I now understand why there is a Gold Cup Trophy and a Gold Cup National Match in the catalog. Nobody could ever explain to me the reason for this. From reading this thread now I know!
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  #32  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:14 PM
Caferacer Caferacer is offline
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great article
makes me want to go out and get a national match now
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  #33  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:38 PM
1-DAB 1-DAB is offline
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Early stainless example with flat top. SN 001xx.

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  #34  
Old 10-13-2012, 11:14 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
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Beetledude,

Phenomenal post - thank you!!
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  #35  
Old 10-14-2012, 01:28 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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Nice thread. I agree with most of it.

I would also mention that even after the MkIV Series 80 the collet bushing was used up till 1988. Also I have a problem with the picture of a MkIV Series 80 GCNM. I think Colt used the steel trigger up till 1996. I have a 1996 GCNM enhanced in my shooty collection, although the rubber wrap arounds are in the box it came in. In 1997 of course the GCT came out with the Aluminum trigger.



According to Clawson's book I do not think there was any pistol call a MkI. It was called a First model in .38 Spec. N.M. Then the Second model in 38 Spec N.M. was called a MkII and the Third Model in 38 Spec. N.M. was called a MkIII.

Of course we all know what the MkIV was and became.

Brings up another good point of Gold Cups in not .45 ACP. I looked for a couple years and finally found an original Delta Gold Cup in 10mm from 91/92. They made Gold Cups in 38 Super and 9mm over the years also.

Points I am not clear on is did they make the SS flat tops in 97, or 98 and even into 99? What year did they stop grooving the front of the frame? I am guessing around 93-94? My 91-92s are still grooved, but by 96 they were not.


I did buy one of the new GCNM round tops a couple weeks ago. A blued Trophy with a different grip safety and roll marks maybe. Still it is a very impressive pistol.
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  #36  
Old 10-14-2012, 02:28 PM
beetledude beetledude is offline
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Thank you for the corrections. I will update the original essay based on new/subsequent information that has been posted or PM to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post
Nice thread. I agree with most of it.

I would also mention that even after the MkIV Series 80 the collet bushing was used up till 1988. Also I have a problem with the picture of a MkIV Series 80 GCNM. I think Colt used the steel trigger up till 1996. I have a 1996 GCNM enhanced in my shooty collection, although the rubber wrap arounds are in the box it came in. In 1997 of course the GCT came out with the Aluminum trigger.
I posted that the example Series 80 was a Talo special edition, so perhaps not the best representative example of a typical Series 80 GCNM. I'll update the text to reflect that the standard model had the steel trigger.

Will also update info about the collet bushing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911

According to Clawson's book I do not think there was any pistol call a MkI. It was called a First model in .38 Spec. N.M. Then the Second model in 38 Spec N.M. was called a MkII and the Third Model in 38 Spec. N.M. was called a MkIII.

Of course we all know what the MkIV was and became.
Interesting. So the Mk series were the models not in .45acp. Does anyone know why colt starting using the Mk terminology with the MkIV series 70?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post

Brings up another good point of Gold Cups in not .45 ACP. I looked for a couple years and finally found an original Delta Gold Cup in 10mm from 91/92. They made Gold Cups in 38 Super and 9mm over the years also.
agreed -- I was mainly focusing on telling the story of the .45 versions. I too have a Delta Gold Cup. Unfortunately it is in stainless, I would LOVE to find a Delta Gold Cup in blue, which I think they only made for one year.

Thanks again for the info, will update the text!
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  #37  
Old 10-14-2012, 03:17 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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In 1935 colt introduced an adjustable sight version of the National Match. However, the rules of the National Matches prohibited the use of adjustable sights. So the adjustable sight version was purely for non-competitive shooters -- the "gift" crowd.
Fascinating, I did not know that. But it makes more sense than the current crop of tricked out "service pistols."


The new production NM with Bomar copy sight looks good to me.
I don't think I have ever read anything favorable about the Accro or Elliason sights of the baseline Gold Cups and Trophy.
Although I never had any trouble out of them, except the one GC '70 that had it mounted crooked.
The only sight I have ever kicked loose on a 1911 pattern gun was the front sight on my .22 SM Ace.

Last edited by Jim Watson; 10-14-2012 at 03:21 PM.
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  #38  
Old 10-14-2012, 04:42 PM
Turbo6ta Turbo6ta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post

What year did they stop grooving the front of the frame? I am guessing around 93-94? My 91-92s are still grooved, but by 96 they were not.
Well, the front of the frames were not grooved in 1995 either. Here is my 1995 Gold Cup with the wrap-around "pebbled" textured black grips removed:



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  #39  
Old 10-14-2012, 05:14 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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Yes, everything I understand is the blued Delta Gold Cup was made only one year. I keep looking.

I don't know if you want to include the Gold Cup Commanders. I have a blued Custom Edition made in 91 or 92 although I did replace the grips with some Redwood Burl from Sarge. I did put the original grips in the box. I got it at an estate sale.



I know about the Talo guns, and have a couple non Gold Cup Talo Colts. I was hoping they were going to make the 9mm Gold Cup, but I guess they did not.

Also, many of us keep hoping as Colt makes the Delta Elite and did the new Gold Cup, they may come out with a new Delta Gold Cup. Even with a round top it would be nice.
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  #40  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:20 PM
dgludwig dgludwig is offline
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I have to add my sincere appreciation for beetledude's interesting and informative essay on Colt National Match/Gold Cup pistols. I bought my Series 70 Mark IV National Match nib for $205.07 in 1974 in Cleveland, Ohio. Though I've shot this pistol extensively in Bullseye matches over the past several decades, contrary to what a lot of shooters claim to have experienced, I've never had a problem with the Elliason rear sight coming loose or failing in any way nor with the collet bushing breaking. Guess I've just been lucky.
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  #41  
Old 10-25-2012, 04:15 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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I thought I would throw out a picture of my 2010 GCT. I thought that would be the last year for the flat top, but they made them into 2011 from what I have read. I did loose the wrap around grips for some I bought off the Colt web site, which I think Colt should have put on the gun.





I will mention again that GCNMs did not change for years. From the 60s to the 80s. Below is my 1977 I bought new that year and below a 1988, so a model 80.





I bought a new GCNM roundtop this year, or 2012 and it is impressive. I have not taken a picture of it yet, although the rubber wrap around grips are in the box it came in and it wears wood grips.

One point to mention is the Gold Cup, be it Trophy or National Match is no longer the top the mountain. The most expensive 1911 Colt makes is the Special Combat Gov. or SCG. I bought one in 2006. It is Hardchrome, not SS. Back then it was about $1.4K and I think the new ones are more like $1.8K. It comes out of the Colt Custom Shop in the Custom Shop Box. I put Ironwood grips from Esmeralda on this one.

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  #42  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:10 AM
Rob Greer Rob Greer is offline
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This is the lowest serial numbered NM suffix pistol. It was aspecial order for a Colt executive in 1961... which explains some of the 'bling'. The first production serial number was 26-NM. This one is 010-NM.

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  #43  
Old 10-26-2012, 05:53 PM
taskotzke taskotzke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post
I thought I would throw out a picture of my 2010 GCT. I thought that would be the last year for the flat top, but they made them into 2011 from what I have read. I did loose the wrap around grips for some I bought off the Colt web site, which I think Colt should have put on the gun.





I will mention again that GCNMs did not change for years. From the 60s to the 80s. Below is my 1977 I bought new that year and below a 1988, so a model 80.





I bought a new GCNM roundtop this year, or 2012 and it is impressive. I have not taken a picture of it yet, although the rubber wrap around grips are in the box it came in and it wears wood grips.

One point to mention is the Gold Cup, be it Trophy or National Match is no longer the top the mountain. The most expensive 1911 Colt makes is the Special Combat Gov. or SCG. I bought one in 2006. It is Hardchrome, not SS. Back then it was about $1.4K and I think the new ones are more like $1.8K. It comes out of the Colt Custom Shop in the Custom Shop Box. I put Ironwood grips from Esmeralda on this one.

Who cares what the most expensive model is, this thread is about the National Match and it's predecessors.
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  #44  
Old 10-26-2012, 06:09 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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My point is the SCG out of the Colt Custom Shop is the "new" National Match no matter what the name.
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  #45  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:07 AM
taskotzke taskotzke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1911 View Post
My point is the SCG out of the Colt Custom Shop is the "new" National Match no matter what the name.
I respectfully disagree.
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  #46  
Old 11-01-2012, 02:36 AM
General Surgeon General Surgeon is offline
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Originally Posted by taskotzke View Post
I respectfully disagree.

I respetfully agree with taskotze to disagree with dakota1911.
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  #47  
Old 11-02-2012, 05:27 PM
taskotzke taskotzke is offline
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Thank you General Surgeon.
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  #48  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:59 PM
jmpmstr jmpmstr is offline
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Nice guns. So 1918 Commemorative (original internals), Series 70 Reproduction, any possibility of a Series 70 Gold Cup Reproduction?
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  #49  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:36 AM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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My point was in the old days the Gold Cup National Match (GCNM) was generally the most expensive production gun from Colt. Now the Special Combat Gov. (SCG) is. From what I have seen it is now about a $1.8K thingy, so when you have that much to dump on a 1911, I at least would look at the S&W Performance Center and even places like Wilson, Baer, Brown, Nighthawk, etc.

Onto the question will Colt make a new "70 Series" GCNM?


I can look at the 1977 GCNM from my shooty collection:



And the new 2012 GCNM round top I bought a couple months ago. I did change out the rubber wrap arounds for some Cherrywood grips from the old Ajax company by the way.



If, and that would be a big if Colt lost the Series 80 parts I would guess it would be based on that gun. I would be amazed if it had the collet bushing, grooved front strap on the frame, steel trigger or the flat top of the original. Would they call it a GCNM or maybe a Series 70 Target?

Also, I do not sit around a decsion table at Colt, but it would not take a wonder boy to understand that a Colt Commander with no Series 80 parts would be a big seller and probably a better move. Hey, maybe there will finally be a Series 70 Commander.
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  #50  
Old 12-13-2012, 09:07 PM
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wonderful thread,,
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