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  #1  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:09 PM
DirtyShirt DirtyShirt is offline
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Old Remington UMC 1911 - Unknown Markings

My father in law lives in Connecticut and he came across this pistol while helping his neighbor clean out their basement. They don't know much about firearms and I know only slightly more. They presume it was his neighbors fathers gun. It's a 1911 marked Remington UMC and doesn't have a serial number. It does have a double marking on the slide and the frame. Those markings are a "X" inside of a circle. Has anyone seen a 1911 like this before? These are the only 2 pictures he sent to me.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2020, 09:53 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Usually guns like this are un-numbered because somebody filed off the SN. However in your case I don't see any evidence of such, although admittedly I'm just making an assessment based on low-res pictures. It is possible that it's a pistol assembled after Remington UMC's contract was abruptly canceled at the end of World War One, and if so it may have ended up being sold or given away to a factory employee or some VIP. It could also be a pistol assembled from rejected parts, i.e. a "lunchbox" gun.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:28 AM
Sergio Natali Sergio Natali is offline
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Lucky devil, that seems like a nice thing to find in a basement!
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:41 AM
DirtyShirt DirtyShirt is offline
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I know the pictures are not high quality, my father in law took them with his phone and sent them to me. But can you see the 2 'X' marks on the slide and the two on the frame? I tried determine if these were standard Remington marks but I can't find anything about these marks. Maybe they're rejection stamps?
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:26 PM
corpsman5 corpsman5 is offline
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why can't I ever find something like that in someone's basement? I haven't seen any info about the circle x markings. I just know I would love to have those grips for my 1912 Colt.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:44 PM
67ray 67ray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corpsman5 View Post
why can't I ever find something like that in someone's basement? I haven't seen any info about the circle x markings. I just know I would love to have those grips for my 1912 Colt.
Agreed - I read these stories and think they are not real - then see pictures

Very lucky.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:19 PM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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Ballistol bath needed now.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corpsman5 View Post
why can't I ever find something like that in someone's basement?
Yeah me too... all I ever find are dead spiders and piles of rat doodoo. I can't advise on the X marks as they don't seem to be mentioned in any of the reference books (at least not that I've found so far) so all we can do at this point is guess.
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Avoid the temptation to replace everything on your brand-new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot at least 500 rounds through it first, then decide what you don't like and want to improve. Regarding vintage 1911s, pre-1970 pistols are highly collectible in original, unaltered condition and should NEVER be refinished or modified as it completely ruins their monetary value.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:22 PM
Retired AF CE Retired AF CE is offline
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Ballistol bath needed now.
Indeed! Kroll or PB Blaster, something ASAP!
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:18 PM
corpsman5 corpsman5 is offline
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now I'm really wanting to find some documentation on those markings. I would imagine they were meant to keep the pistol from being sold, whether it be to the military or the civilian market. For what reason, who knows? Are you going to try to buy it from the owner?
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  #11  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:35 PM
Shawn6518 Shawn6518 is offline
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Seeing us government property on the side, is it possible it was a GI pistol? Or did they have serial numbers? Could it had been a prototype? Maybe the original owner worked at the factory??
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:10 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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It might be an artifact of the fuzzy picture, but I see what looks like longitudinal tool marks where the serial number used to be.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:50 PM
TFLeader TFLeader is offline
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UMC Pistol

See if there is a proof stamp on the slide just above the firing pin retainer (either an "E" of an eagles head. Also look for an "E" stamped the bottom of the slide need the lanyard attachment point if they are there or missing, it could narrow done the s/n of the pistol.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:26 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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I see the marks also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
It might be an artifact of the fuzzy picture, but I see what looks like longitudinal tool marks where the serial number used to be.
If so then tough luck.
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2020, 07:07 PM
Scott Wilson Scott Wilson is offline
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This photo is from an article that appeared in a 2005 issue of "Book of the 1911", which was a Guns & Ammo publication. The article does not credit whose collection the pistol is in or any guesses as to the markings. If the OP's pistol never had a serial number applied, I would lean toward it being a reject. Also, there doesn't appear to be an E.E.C. inspection stamp on either example.
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Last edited by Scott Wilson; 01-14-2020 at 09:58 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:53 AM
usgi1911 usgi1911 is offline
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Also look for P mark top of barrel port and other E mark stamping bottom of mainspring housing and small parts. Don’t see the E.E.C. inspector mark by the trigger left side. It may be a reject I guess we’ll never know as it is over 100 years old. Clean it with Kroil oil. It looks rather nice old aged Remington UMC. Rare for that condition.
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