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  #26  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:07 AM
TEXMEX TEXMEX is offline
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The next smallest I know of is the Charter Arms Pitbull revolver. 5 shot and again can be reloaded directly from your 1911 magazines.
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  #27  
Old 06-22-2019, 07:50 AM
Buccaneer12 Buccaneer12 is offline
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Can someone help me understand how moving weight from your load bearing structure (hips) to your spine is helping folks?
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  #28  
Old 06-22-2019, 08:04 AM
DD1911 DD1911 is offline
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My only concern is that if the BUG is visible, you now have two guns to defend and retain in an altercation,. And the BUG will likely not be in a high retention holster.

I carried a Colt SF-VI in a Galco Ankle Glove for years and never lost it. Maybe try that holster for your J Frame? It did not work well on occasions where I had to wear a dress shoe, but locked up nice against the top of an 8" boot.

Last edited by DD1911; 06-22-2019 at 08:07 AM.
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  #29  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:39 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer12 View Post
Can someone help me understand how moving weight from your load bearing structure (hips) to your spine is helping folks?
The weight is not put on the spine but rather distributed to the shoulders and back rather than hanging specifically on the hips. The constant load being carried on the hips has ended early some very talented police officers with lower lumbar disk issues.

An average duty belt with equipment on it weighs somewhere in the twenty pound area. Pistol, three magazines, two handcuffs, ASP, Taser, pepper spray, radio, and ring of keys.
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  #30  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:44 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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Just a post script to this thread.

Several of my uniform cops (it is uniformed special enforcement squad) have been using an ankle holster that is laced into the boot laces. It seems to work very well for them and none have had a pistols skidding across the ground in front of them when running.
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  #31  
Old 06-22-2019, 03:40 PM
Mike 139 Mike 139 is offline
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A good ankle holster, like the Galco Ankle Glove, securely held a Kahr MK .40 Elite for me for several years, while wearing Hi-Tec Magnum Boots.

I remember back in the 70’s, after the Onion Field (True story), a lot of guys carrying High Standard ,22 Magnum Derringers... Police price was $50. for them back than. Several others were carrying Browning .25 Auto’s. No body was going to be w/o a second gun.


The last 10 years or so I’ve been using a Mika pocket Holster with a S&W 340. Gold Dot SB 357 loads. I called Mika, He’s Retired LAPD, He’s good People. His Holsters absolutely stick to the insides of your pocket, but leave plenty of room to firmly grasp the Pistol before drawing. He even signs the inside of the Holster for you.

Primary Carry in Retirement is a Shield .40, Stong side belt Holster.

As far as running after people, you don’t. Set up a Perimeter and wait for K-9.

Stay Safe !

Last edited by Mike 139; 06-22-2019 at 04:26 PM.
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  #32  
Old 06-22-2019, 08:45 PM
Buccaneer12 Buccaneer12 is offline
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Originally Posted by DRM813 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccaneer12 View Post
Can someone help me understand how moving weight from your load bearing structure (hips) to your spine is helping folks?
The weight is not put on the spine but rather distributed to the shoulders and back rather than hanging specifically on the hips. The constant load being carried on the hips has ended early some very talented police officers with lower lumbar disk issues.

An average duty belt with equipment on it weighs somewhere in the twenty pound area. Pistol, three magazines, two handcuffs, ASP, Taser, pepper spray, radio, and ring of keys.
Interesting.....i would have guessed lower lumbar issues come from sitting down for long periods of time which causes the glutes. quads and hip flexors to weaken/tighten and pull the front of the hips down, causing lower crossed syndrome. It would compressed your l4-l5 region and lead to joint disfunction and i see a lot of cops walking around with the condition. In the case of overweight ones, add in spinal lordosis to exacerbate it. The hips are designed to carry weight...which is why backpackers adjust hip sections first before moving out.

But im certainly not one to argue with people seeking comfort *shrug*
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  #33  
Old 08-30-2019, 05:02 PM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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I've carried a BUG on my ankle for years, never saw a need to change.
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  #34  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:55 AM
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ECHO154 ECHO154 is offline
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I was hit from behind by a DUI while I was on a hot call (cow on the road). After that I had my head stapled back together and spine surgery. I heartily agree with the Outside vest carriers. I carried a G43 inside my vest under my shirt until I went to the outer carrier. Then I found that having a holster attached to the left inside velcro straps for the rear of the vest worked great.....YMMV
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  #35  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:52 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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I was hit from behind by a DUI while I was on a hot call (cow on the road). After that I had my head stapled back together and spine surgery. I heartily agree with the Outside vest carriers. I carried a G43 inside my vest under my shirt until I went to the outer carrier. Then I found that having a holster attached to the left inside velcro straps for the rear of the vest worked great.....YMMV
Sorry to hear about your injuries. Life can suck some days. Distributing the weight of normal duty items is a career saver for lots of us in this job.

I posted a while ago about a crash I came across and offered to take the place of the guy directing traffic so he could go to the latrine. As a former employee of mine I was only too eager to help him out. I dug out my traffic vest and cones to spend an hour at the mercy of the driving public.

As middle/upper management for many years I have not missed the opportunity those of you have to place your life in the hands of the every day driver. You know the person. They are the ones who know only one way to work and refuse to take a different route no matter how many flares, traffic cones and squad slights tell them different.

I'll take a SWAT entry on a murder suspect instead any time!!!!
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  #36  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:40 AM
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ECHO154 ECHO154 is offline
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Thanks DRM813! I agree hitting the door is a lot less stressful. I was bumped twice and dragged once during my 30 years. I retired in 2017 partially due to back issues and my wife's liver transplant. I don't miss the vest .....funny how my chest never smells like my feet anymore
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:10 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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[QUOTE. I don't miss the vest .....funny how my chest never smells like my feet anymore[/QUOTE]

Funny! Only those who have worn a vest for four or five summer days in a row can understand that comment!
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  #38  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:41 AM
jpd202 jpd202 is offline
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I carry a Springfield TRP upfront and a Ruger LCR .38 as a back up. I use a DeSantis "Apache" ankle holster and am very happy with it. Never had it come out when it wasn't intended to. I did test it before use by kicking a heavy bag, running up stairs and around the track just to be sure. Read an article by Ayoob about testing with the bag and found it useful and a good test. I have gotten in several foot pursuits with the rig and have had no problems.

I use the .38 as my backup will most likely be handed to a competent good guy who happens to be unarmed for whatever reason when something bad goes down. It is loaded with wadcutters since I won't know the skill level of who I may be handing it off to but I back it with a speed strip of Speer 135 +Ps. It is also there in case something should happen to my TRP, but this is unlikely as the thing runs like a Singer sewing machine and has not malfunctioned in all the shooting I have done with it(weekly at least 100rds).


That being said, here in my part of S.E. Kentucky we don't get a lot of deep snow but when we do I carry my Ruger in a Kramer Vest holster-shirt. Slower to get to yes but still there if needed.
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  #39  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:04 PM
PigPilot PigPilot is offline
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Ages ago when I was a cop, my department wasn't too hot about off duty carry and BUGs were, ah, pretty much looked down on. I tucked a Model 60 into a suede holster and stuck that into my left boot. That made for a snug fit and it lived there for quite a few years. A blending disc smoothed the hammer spur clear off the little BUG making it DAO and assuring a snag free draw. My SGT didn't have his BUG actually ON his person; he regularly stuck a 4" Model 10 into the storage pocket of the driver's door. A handy back up to his Python. At that point, the department didn't provide -any- sort of vest. if you wanted a vest, it came out of your pocket.
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Last edited by PigPilot; 10-09-2019 at 07:06 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:46 PM
Frank Vaccaro Frank Vaccaro is offline
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Thanks DRM813! I agree hitting the door is a lot less stressful. I was bumped twice and dragged once during my 30 years. I retired in 2017 partially due to back issues and my wife's liver transplant. I don't miss the vest ....

.funny how my chest never smells like my feet anymore[IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.1911forum.com/images/smilies/rofl.gif[/IMG]
Been there, done that!!!😂😂😂
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  #41  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:39 PM
shooter59 shooter59 is online now
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer12 View Post
Can someone help me understand how moving weight from your load bearing structure (hips) to your spine is helping folks?
Great question......it doesn’t. Common misconception, rumor, old wives tale in LE that’s been perpetrated by so many, for so many years, it’s now gospel.

When I started, it was a revolver, 12 extra rounds, a straight stick, cuffs and a radio.

When I retired (four years ago), it was everything you see today. My last duty belt was pretty loaded, pistol, three mags, 2 cuffs, taser, pepper spray, radio, knife, gloves..

My bleeder kit was on one ankle, my BUG on the other. Anyone who’s ever carried 5 pounds in a backpack knows the waist belt/harness is king. So is proper posture and regular movement while in a patrol car.

As someone who worked for over 30+ years, but was seriously into climbing/backpacking for far longer, you put as much on your hips as possible for the sole reason of saving your spine.

It’s never going to be comfortable or fun to wear a duty rig, but there are a lot of things you can do to make it tolerable.
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:11 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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I am not a back specialist and some who commented here appear they are.

I do know this. Wearing an external vest carrier allowed me to distribute the weight from my hips to my upper body. The equipment is spread around my upper torso and not just hanging on my spine like a backpack. I feel like my shoulders and upper back muscles carry the weight. I spend a lot of time every week lifting heavy weights up and down to make sure these muscles remain strong.

Now to what I consider the most important benefit of the load bearing vest. During the long sessions sitting at a desk doing reports (or any other time the environment allows), the vest can be removed and hung on a chair. Now the weight is being carried by the chair and not any of the body's skeletal structure.

Re-equipping is just a matter of seconds when needed and the body gets to cool off/dry in addition to the benefit of removing the weight.
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  #43  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:10 AM
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ECHO154 ECHO154 is offline
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One of the biggest benefits is that it allows you to remove items from the duty belt in the small of your back. sitting with cuffs, glove pouch, asp, etc pushes the L4/5 out of sync as well as pushing hips to the path of least resistance. They require so much "must carry" equipment that some don't physically have room. The load bearing vests also allow for more easily accessibility to cuffs, tourniquets, taser, lights etc. never liked the rear mounted cuff cases....when you fighting somebody the last thing you want to do is reach to your 4-5-6-7-8-9 o'clock areas. I always carried on set of cuffs just to the right of my duty belt buckle. more ammo can be carried as well, including AR mags. JMTCW. I carried a SW air weight on my ankle, a G43 in my vest. I ended up going to a sewn in holster on the inside of my load vest. between my chest and left armpit, almost under the armpit. great access to my 43.
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  #44  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:16 AM
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ECHO154 ECHO154 is offline
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Side note: ankle carry, I'm right handed and carried on the inside of my left ankle, affords one the ability to stealthily have a gun in your hand should somebody approach you squad (yes it happens...especially when your report writing. When I became a K-9 guy that never happened again as both of my partners were EXTREMELY car aggressive.....well my first one was everything aggressive!!!
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  #45  
Old 11-29-2019, 08:08 AM
DR505 DR505 is offline
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Another vote for the DeSantis “Ankle Glove”. I carried a Glock 27 in mine for years. Running, climbing, etc. never dislodged the pistol.
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  #46  
Old 01-02-2020, 05:21 PM
NW GUY NW GUY is offline
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HOWDY.
New guy HERE...
OLD retired law guy from out there....
30 years in LE
I am right handed

I carried my GoldCup duty gun on right side in a jacket slotted drop thumbreak and then
as a second I carried a Colt Commander LW in an inside the pant high cavalry over the top of the duty gun under the uniform shirt.

It was both hands accessible, a Goldcup "light" version for familiarity and of course used the same magazines for reloading.

as to the questions.. yep I am bigger that the standard breadbox. Just a hair under 6'2" and what is defined as "big boned." My working weight was between 225 and 235 during my street life.

My 3rd was in a pocket sewn to the front of my vest carrier courtesy 2nd Chance. It was a S&W Model 38. Light and well hidden simply because EVERYONE knows cops carry TWO guns... just onion field insurance.
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  #47  
Old 01-04-2020, 08:45 AM
DRM813 DRM813 is offline
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Glad you chose to join us NW guy.

The onion field comment does date you!

You would think that the longer someone stays in law enforcement the less equipment they would carry. I have found I am the exact opposite. After my first shooting, oh so many years ago, I sat down and realized that nothing is clear cut in a gunfight and having extra bullets was a good thing! Extra guns even better!
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  #48  
Old 01-04-2020, 10:34 AM
Alabama-Ohio Alabama-Ohio is offline
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DeSantis model 44 ankle rig has served me well with the J frame and now the Glock. for an onion field gun its been a Seecamp for quite a while now.
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  #49  
Old 01-04-2020, 06:35 PM
NW GUY NW GUY is offline
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Glad you chose to join us NW guy.

The onion field comment does date you!

You would think that the longer someone stays in law enforcement the less equipment they would carry. I have found I am the exact opposite. After my first shooting, oh so many years ago, I sat down and realized that nothing is clear cut in a gunfight and having extra bullets was a good thing! Extra guns even better!
The onion field comment does date you!
YES.. but it also means I must have done something right to make it to being that old.

MY duty gear..
Double cuff case, mag carrier for 4 mags, small AA battery Maglite in a slim case, to go with the 7 cell regular light, radio case, and holster. NEVER carried Mace, that crap affected me way worse than anyone I ever saw sprayed and that was if just carried on the wind with light fumes. And tasers were some engineers dream.

Redundancy was my name.
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  #50  
Old 01-05-2020, 01:38 AM
kcruisin kcruisin is offline
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I love my Kimber Ultra-Carry. It ran well from the box, and a good shooter for a 3" barrel. It's probably the smallest 45 to hold a 1911 mag.
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