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  #1  
Old 05-29-2019, 03:59 PM
jnc36rcpd jnc36rcpd is offline
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Federal law enforcement and the 1911

Out of curiosity, what federal agencies still issue or authorize 1911's? The FBI SWAT people at the range all seem to have Glocks now. Thanks and be safe.
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  #2  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:05 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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The answer is: Probably none, officially.

I believe some FeeBee in specialized units may have been grandfathered to carry it, though.

You have to realize the Feds are forced to hire women, little people, and girly-men, non of whom can handle a man-sized weapon in a major caliber. Those who might actually have to shoot someone (e.g. Secret Service) are carrying a .357 SIG.
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  #3  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:43 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Agent Harvey Russell carried one!




Not entirely sure which agency he was with, since he was "OGA"...
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  #4  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:26 PM
drail drail is offline
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He looks like a New Orleans pimp.
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2019, 11:10 PM
vortec vortec is offline
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Quote:
Agent Harvey Russell carried one!
Condition 2 or 3?
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  #6  
Old 06-03-2019, 05:13 AM
21/503 21/503 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer View Post
... You have to realize the Feds are forced to hire women, little people, and girly-men, non of whom can handle a man-sized weapon in a major caliber...
+1. That was my first thought when the FBI got rid of their S&W 1076ís (one of the finest pistols ever made in my opinion). Of course we all know a woman or two that can handle a .45 (or 10mm Auto) as good or better than a lot of men but itís an excuse that works...
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:43 AM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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+1. That was my first thought when the FBI got rid of their S&W 1076’s (one of the finest pistols ever made in my opinion). Of course we all know a woman or two that can handle a .45 (or 10mm Auto) as good or better than a lot of men but it’s an excuse that works...

Agent Sculley carried a Smith 10 the first few seasons - the only person she shot with it, was Agent Mulder. Twice.

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  #8  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:36 PM
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Condition 2 or 3?

He never drew it in the film, but he WAS a "good 'ol boy from Texas." I'm THINKING condition 1... maybe...
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  #9  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:47 PM
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James James is offline
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
Agent Sculley carried a Smith 10 the first few seasons - the only person she shot with it, was Agent Mulder. Twice.
I think technically it was a 5906. They probably didn't want to use a 10 and kill Mulder that early in the series.
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  #10  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:51 PM
jr24 jr24 is offline
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I think technically it was a 5906. They probably didn't want to use a 10 and kill Mulder that early in the series.
Had to have been, else Mulder would have been reduced to a fine red mist.

And his soul would have been killed to boot.
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2019, 04:13 AM
Buccaneer12 Buccaneer12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer View Post
The answer is: Probably none, officially.

I believe some FeeBee in specialized units may have been grandfathered to carry it, though.

You have to realize the Feds are forced to hire women, little people, and girly-men, non of whom can handle a man-sized weapon in a major caliber. Those who might actually have to shoot someone (e.g. Secret Service) are carrying a .357 SIG.
this. Air Marshals have gone to 9mm and Secret Service will be following suit soon. Lawsuits and EO complaints were the primary driving factor for the FBI's change from 40 to 9mm. One such case was about how the dual spring recoil spring gen4 glocks currently being issued gave an unfair advantage to recoil mitigation. Another was the gen 4 back strap kit gave an unfair advantage to recoil mitigation. The latter ended with the requirement that all FBI agents issued Gen4 glocks had to remove their backstraps and return them to inventory, to ensure no one used them. They then needed a soft shooting round, which lead to the creation of the g2 round, and why it only clocks about 850fps. They used penetration depth as their justification for saying one round is as good as any other. The round failed every single test in the protocol, so it was re-shot over and over again until they had enough rounds in each category that "passed" to call it good.

At the end of the day, having marginal shooters pass a qualification and cost savings are the driving factors to round selection. Lawsuits, administrative complaints, ammunition and equipment are expensive.

Last edited by Buccaneer12; 06-22-2019 at 07:44 AM.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:53 PM
eharri3 eharri3 is offline
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The other issue is Negligent discharges.

I don't see 1911s being authorized most places except specialized units. Realize, many front line federal agents are not gun people. They're former lawyers, engineers, or recent college graduates with no firearms handling experience. Large numbers are People who come from non LEO and non military backgrounds, and a good percentage of them will not train or practice after their academy other than showing up at a range to demonstrate proficiency a few times per year. Some Fed. agencies are only just in the last few years beginning to begrudgingly accept lighter DAO triggers. For awhile they avoided them because they didn't trust agents' trigger discipline. After awhile they got too many complaints of marginal shooters stuck below the 5 ring because of all the room for shooter error left in the heavy triggers they kept specifying for duty weapons to try to minimize the chance someone would sneeze and shoot a co-worker during a warrant.

They're going to Glocks and sigs with better Dual action trigger technology so their agents don't struggle to qualify but that's as far as they'll go for liability reasons.

Last edited by eharri3; 07-11-2019 at 02:07 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2019, 10:59 PM
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Kevin Rohrer Kevin Rohrer is offline
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Sad. Am glad I was never a Fed. Wouldn't have lasted long as I am not PC.

My agency gives G21s to the Men, while the lesser folk get the G19. Everyone is happy.
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All my 1911s are in .45acp. Why? Because no one makes one in .46cal.--Me
The 9mm is a SD cartridge fit only for women and Europeans--Me

Last edited by Kevin Rohrer; 07-12-2019 at 06:30 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2019, 04:19 AM
21/503 21/503 is offline
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer12 View Post
... At the end of the day, having marginal shooters pass a qualification and cost savings are the driving factors to round selection. Lawsuits, administrative complaints, ammunition and equipment are expensive.
Weíre really fortunate that very few LEOís are forced to shoot anyone. (I served a total of 42 years on the street and while I came close a few times, I never had an OIS.)
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:50 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer12 View Post
They then needed a soft shooting round, which lead to the creation of the g2 round, and why it only clocks about 850fps. .
What is a g2 round at 850 fps?
All I can find is the silly g2 RIP which is a light bullet at an (advertised) high velocity?

ETA: Found it, Speer G2, another rubbernose bullet. Claims 970fps.


I am only acquainted with two FBI agents. One is an enthusiast and can shoot about anything well.
The other is dismal with her issue Glock. She is not only intelligent, she is sensible and is no doubt a good investigator. But I hope she does not have to apprehend a violent criminal her investigation locates.

Last edited by Jim Watson; 07-13-2019 at 06:43 AM.
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  #16  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:32 PM
cwo4uscgret cwo4uscgret is offline
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One reason many LE Agencies mandate a specific firearm/caliber is everyone is familiar with the gun and can pick one up from an injured officer or can use their magazines.

In 10 years+ with CBP I started with the Glock 17; 5 years later, the H&K 2000SK in .40 S&W. Now five years after retirement I hear they are transitioning back to the Glock in 9mm. Go figure.
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  #17  
Old 07-13-2019, 04:28 AM
Totally Tactical Totally Tactical is offline
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The FBI used to issue Springfield Pros only to HRT and SWAT teams.
The contract ended in April of 2017 with Springfield.
So Agents are now issued Glocks.
I'm pretty sure Agents that got a Springfield before that date are still able to carry them.
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  #18  
Old 07-13-2019, 04:33 AM
Totally Tactical Totally Tactical is offline
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The New Speer 147 gr. G2 9 mm round was tested by the FBI and performed great. The round goes into production and they wern't getting the same results.

FBI went with the Hornady 135gr. +P 9mm Critical Defense round for carry and
Speer got the contract for Lawman FMJ range ammo. I'm not sure off the top of my head what grain is the bullet.
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  #19  
Old 07-14-2019, 03:01 PM
drail drail is offline
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Feds don't need no stinking "authorization"!!!!! They're Feds. Run what ya got.
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:49 PM
tc215 tc215 is offline
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Originally Posted by Totally Tactical View Post
The FBI used to issue Springfield Pros only to HRT and SWAT teams.
The contract ended in April of 2017 with Springfield.
So Agents are now issued Glocks.
I'm pretty sure Agents that got a Springfield before that date are still able to carry them.
It was summer 2015 when SWAT agents were notified that they were going away from the Pro for another gun to be named at a later date. Later that year they started going to Gen4 BFG Glock 17ís.

Agents that had personally-owned Professionals could keep carrying them, however, the bureau said they would eventually be going away from all .45 caliber personally owned weapons. Itís been several months since Iíve checked, but last time I asked, .45ís were still authorized.

There were also some Sigís still floating around, but they were all taken up a couple years ago.
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  #21  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:58 PM
tc215 tc215 is offline
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Originally Posted by Totally Tactical View Post
The New Speer 147 gr. G2 9 mm round was tested by the FBI and performed great. The round goes into production and they wern't getting the same results.

FBI went with the Hornady 135gr. +P 9mm Critical Defense round for carry and
Speer got the contract for Lawman FMJ range ammo. I'm not sure off the top of my head what grain is the bullet.
The G2 did test well for sure. However, from what Iíve been told by individuals that would know, the FBI originally wanted the Critical Duty round. However, Speer came in with the G2 and was able to get the contract.
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:09 PM
motosapiens motosapiens is offline
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The agency I work for is all Sig 40's (226 and 229). Even the girls can shoot them just fine. Although the best shooter in the agency is the database/IT guy that competes.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2019, 05:49 PM
Hawkeye fan Hawkeye fan is offline
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How about 2011’s? U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group went to The Staccato P from STI.
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2019, 08:24 PM
Apotheosis Apotheosis is offline
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What handguns law enforcement agencies issue and handguns their cops carry are not always the same if agencies allow their cops to carry their choice of agency approved handguns. Hence, Utopia PD might issue a model of Glock, its cops might opt to carry another approved handgun. Of course, cops will have to purchase an approved handgun and qualify with it before carrying it.
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  #25  
Old 02-04-2020, 12:25 AM
INV136 INV136 is offline
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Originally Posted by cwo4uscgret View Post
One reason many LE Agencies mandate a specific firearm/caliber is everyone is familiar with the gun and can pick one up from an injured officer or can use their magazines.

In 10 years+ with CBP I started with the Glock 17; 5 years later, the H&K 2000SK in .40 S&W. Now five years after retirement I hear they are transitioning back to the Glock in 9mm. Go figure.
Yeah, I was the only agent that carried four spare magazines on my belt (and another one in a pocket) while everyone else carried only two. A lot of the others would joke that if they ran out of ammo in a shooting, they would have me toss them one of mine. I responded .... "No way. My spare magazines are for me and if you don't carry enough for yourself and run out, then that's your tough luck."

When I first started back in the mid 80's my agency had no firearms list or requirements other than qualifying at the range with our personally owned pistol. In the 90's HQ came up with a list of approved for duty use personally owned hand guns. A few more years and they started issuing the Sig P229 .40 DAO. That's when things started going downhill. Anyway, I'm retired now and I don't have to worry about their arcane restrictions. I've switched over to 10mm 1911 pistols as my EDC, still with four spare magazines on my belt and one or two more in pockets.
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